The Dragon In the Sea

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    Non-Dune Frank Herbert Book Discussion

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A Thing of Eternity
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The Dragon In the Sea

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 09 Apr 2008 19:19

I just found a first edition, first printing copy of this. Very cool vintage book, super cheap dust cover, the printing doesn't even come close to lining up with the edges of the book.
For those who don't know, this was FH's first full length novel, it has been re-released as "twentyfirst century submarine" and "under pressure", please correct me if I'm wrong.
Can't wait to start reading it.
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Postby orald » 09 Apr 2008 19:45

Never heard of it being called "twentyfirst century submarine". :o

I read it maybe a year back from a copy my neighboor had, from the 80's I think. I think it was titled Under Pressure.

It's a nice book to read, but I can't say there's anything special about it byond being written by the Prophet.
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 10 Apr 2008 00:38

I've read a chapter or two that were included in the book of Frank Herbert (I think, maybe another collection) and it was pretty dry. I mostly bought it for the sentiment, I might put off reading it until I've exhausted his other work.
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Postby Omphalos » 10 Apr 2008 01:00

Twenty-First Century Sub was the Avon book club name. It was only called that in one edition.

http://www.omphalosbookreviews.com/inde ... ews/info/4

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 10 Apr 2008 13:00

Good to know, I just ran across it once whilst used book hunting.
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Postby TheDukester » 23 Jun 2008 14:06

This title, and other non-Dune works by FH, are beginning to appear at audiobook sites such as Audible.com and iTunes. I have enough free credits built up at Audible that I'm willing to take a chance on a title now and then, so I'm wondering if I should give a new FH book a try. Any thoughts? (especially on what the best non-Dune book to try might be).

My one experience with FH's non-Dune works was White Plague. It didn't hold my interest until the end, although it wasn't terrible or anything like that. But it didn't set my world on fire.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 23 Jun 2008 14:15

TheDukester wrote:This title, and other non-Dune works by FH, are beginning to appear at audiobook sites such as Audible.com and iTunes. I have enough free credits built up at Audible that I'm willing to take a chance on a title now and then, so I'm wondering if I should give a new FH book a try. Any thoughts? (especially on what the best non-Dune book to try might be).

My one experience with FH's non-Dune works was White Plague. It didn't hold my interest until the end, although it wasn't terrible or anything like that. But it didn't set my world on fire.


Read the Jesus Incident, and the rest of the Pandora Saga, which FH co-authored with poet Bill Ransom. I wouldn't bother with audiobook on this one, just go buy it and read it, it's wonderful. You could read Desination:Void first, as it is the first book in the series... but it's kind of a book on it's own in my opinion, and it's pretty bizarre, might turn you off and keep you away from the other three books (only the last 3 books were co-written by Bill, D:V was FH solo). I read D:V after TJI and I'm pretty sure I enjoyed it more than I would have if I'd read it first.
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Postby orald » 23 Jun 2008 14:36

^^^ What he said.

Only I would never call D:V "bizzare"(infidel! :x ).
If anything, TJI is way more bizzare, what with talking seaweed and animals and all. D:V is a must read(or hear?).
D:V has a little of a 2001: A Space Oddyssy feel to it IMO, but way "heavier".

The Jorj X. Mackie stories(Whipping Star and even better yet, The Dosadi Experiment) are also recommended. There's also the short story The Tactful Saboteur which I'd recommend reading before WS and TDE(in that order by the way) as it sets up the Mackie character and universe(the ConSentiency).

Oh, and the book discussed in this thread is also OK, maybe it'd be better in audio.
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Postby Freakzilla » 23 Jun 2008 14:40

I agree with Orald, The Jesus Incident was extremely bizzare and turned me off to the series.

Destination: Void, while chock full of technobable, I thought was outstanding.
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Postby orald » 23 Jun 2008 14:51

Freak, maybe it was just the sudden changes? I've started reading The Ascention Factor a long time ago and still haven't continued byond a few chapters...I blame it on being on my PC. I can't read much that way.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 23 Jun 2008 14:56

orald wrote:^^^ What he said.

Only I would never call D:V "bizzare"(infidel! :x ).
If anything, TJI is way more bizzare, what with talking seaweed and animals and all. D:V is a must read(or hear?).
D:V has a little of a 2001: A Space Oddyssy feel to it IMO, but way "heavier".

The Jorj X. Mackie stories(Whipping Star and even better yet, The Dosadi Experiment) are also recommended. There's also the short story The Tactful Saboteur which I'd recommend reading before WS and TDE(in that order by the way) as it sets up the Mackie character and universe(the ConSentiency).

Oh, and the book discussed in this thread is also OK, maybe it'd be better in audio.


I'm sticking by bizarre for D:V, though TJI is certainly strange too. D:V is just more... tedious and might throw off someone new to the series. Definitly a must read though, I loved it, but I think I might not have loved it if I'd read it first.

Also, yes the McKie books are killer.
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Postby Freakzilla » 23 Jun 2008 14:57

You mean between books? Could be.

I can't blame it on the electronic format, I mainly read that way.

D:V was more of a technically electrical/mechanical/physical book where TJI was more of a biological/psychological book. I just found the first more interesting personally.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 23 Jun 2008 15:02

Freakzilla wrote:I agree with Orald, The Jesus Incident was extremely bizzare and turned me off to the series.

Destination: Void, while chock full of technobable, I thought was outstanding.


Really? Hmmm. TJI was the first non-dune book I ever read by FH (except for man of two worlds, which I read when I was a little kid and didn't even realize it was the same guy until a year or so ago) and I loved it, not quite as much as Dune, but pretty darn close.

I'll agree on D:V though, lots of technobabble but outstanding despite of (or because of) this.
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Postby Serkanner » 23 Jun 2008 15:52

If I would have to pick a favourite next to Dune I would also pick Destionation: Void. Fantastic story and greatly followed-up by The Jesus Incident which I also like a lot.
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Postby Dune Nerd » 23 Jun 2008 17:51

The whole pandora series (which I think includes D:V) is by far the best series FH wrote. I was confused for most of TJI but I really enjoyed it once I realized what was going on.

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Postby Phaedrus » 23 Jun 2008 18:31

Dune Nerd wrote:The whole pandora series (which I think includes D:V) is by far the best series FH wrote. I was confused for most of TJI but I really enjoyed it once I realized what was going on.


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Postby Dune Nerd » 23 Jun 2008 23:48

Phaedrus wrote:
Dune Nerd wrote:The whole pandora series (which I think includes D:V) is by far the best series FH wrote. I was confused for most of TJI but I really enjoyed it once I realized what was going on.


Greater than Dune? Blasphemer!


Sorry sleep deprivation, I did mean besides Dune, I can't believe you didn't read my mind on that one. :P

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Postby SandChigger » 24 Jun 2008 06:04

He must have been half asleep and channeling a certain Israeli.... ;)
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Postby orald » 24 Jun 2008 10:00

Some American ass will be channeling a Nerve Runner next time he goes to lecture his English class. :evil:
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Postby Phaedrus » 24 Jun 2008 16:56

SandChigger wrote:He must have been half asleep and channeling a certain Israeli.... ;)


Entirely possible...did I mention how much I hate Edric? :wink:

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Postby Freakzilla » 24 Jun 2008 16:59

Phaedrus wrote:
SandChigger wrote:He must have been half asleep and channeling a certain Israeli.... ;)


Entirely possible...did I mention how much I hate Edric? :wink:


If you'd compared him to Hitler I may have believed you. :wink:
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Postby SandChigger » 24 Jun 2008 18:38

orald wrote:Some American ass will be channeling a Nerve Runner next time he goes to lecture his English class. :evil:

Ha, I knew you'd eventually get desperate enough to go after even my old ass! :P





(Oh, by the way: pump pump pump!)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Mr. Teg » 25 Jun 2008 09:27

Freakzilla wrote:I agree with Orald, The Jesus Incident was extremely bizzare and turned me off to the series.

Destination: Void, while chock full of technobable, I thought was outstanding.


My reaction as well...

Frank's views on artificial intelligence is in an entirely different league compared to Pinky & the Brain.
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Re: The Dragon In the Sea

Postby mrpsbrk » 20 Jan 2009 02:48

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I just found a first edition, first printing copy of this. Very cool vintage book, super cheap dust cover, the printing doesn't even come close to lining up with the edges of the book.
For those who don't know, this was FH's first full length novel, it has been re-released as "twentyfirst century submarine" and "under pressure", please correct me if I'm wrong.
Can't wait to start reading it.


I've had one of those oldies too, but gave it as a gift to a good friend. I don't suppose he read... It's hard to find faithful people these days ;-)

I... well, it's been a while since i read that, but i think the whole "in flow while without balance" thing that is the theme of "Dragon in the Sea" hints very much to FH's future aims and beliefs... I think it is a very interesting book to get to know the guy -- even if some of it might reveal a certain lack of experience, this is also very revealing.

And to me the sub's captain's whole religion-of-the-ocean thing very much presages Odrade's peace-finding sea bathing.
Marcio (mrpsbrk) does believe in Lord Leto over all other wills and reasons ;-)

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Postby inhuien » 20 Jan 2009 09:56

errrr?? Yes. Buy it NOW.
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