Pandora Series


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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by A Thing of Eternity »

I'm not sure if that is the same as the first novel version of D:V, if it's different then I want that too. I do know that it was published as a book, and then years later FH re-wrote it and published it again.
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Re: Pandora Series

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A Thing of Eternity wrote:I'm not sure if that is the same as the first novel version of D:V, if it's different then I want that too. I do know that it was published as a book, and then years later FH re-wrote it and published it again.
The version in GALAXY is from 1965.

Often there are differences between a serialized book and the novelization. I wasn't aware Frank had re-written the novel "a second time" after the story had been published as a novel already in 1966. As far as I can "see" the version I have is a penguin paperback from 1985 so I assume its the "newer" version. Now I want the original one too ... second-hand stores, here I come!
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by Arrrmanda »

Serkanner wrote:I wasn't aware Frank had re-written the novel "a second time" after the story had been published as a novel already in 1966. As far as I can "see" the version I have is a penguin paperback from 1985 so I assume its the "newer" version. Now I want the original one too ... second-hand stores, here I come!
I'm looking at my copy now and on the copyright page it says this:
A different version of this novel appeared in Galaxy, under the title "Do I Sleep or Wake."
So I guess maybe the unedited edition is not in book form?

I swear I read a quote from Herbert somewhere saying why he edited the book. Damn if I can't find it now though.

EDIT: I'm dumb, it's on the back of the freaking book.
Frank Herbert wrote:When the publishers announced that they were going to bring out a new edition of Destination: Void, they offered me the opportunity to make any changes I felt were necessary. Behind this story and rapid development in fields related to these premises, it would be extraordinary if discoveries across thirteen years did not dictate certain revisions. You will find, therefore, that this newly published version of Destination: Void contains significant additions, rewritten portions, changes in character development and certain deletions.
See now that makes it sound like it was another book and I want it!
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by A Thing of Eternity »

Arrrmanda wrote:
Serkanner wrote:I wasn't aware Frank had re-written the novel "a second time" after the story had been published as a novel already in 1966. As far as I can "see" the version I have is a penguin paperback from 1985 so I assume its the "newer" version. Now I want the original one too ... second-hand stores, here I come!
Frank Herbert wrote:When the publishers announced that they were going to bring out a new edition of Destination: Void, they offered me the opportunity to make any changes I felt were necessary. Behind this story and rapid development in fields related to these premises, it would be extraordinary if discoveries across thirteen years did not dictate certain revisions. You will find, therefore, that this newly published version of Destination: Void contains significant additions, rewritten portions, changes in character development and certain deletions.
Yeah, that's what mine says too. I would expect the magazine version and first book version were pretty similar, but the one I have, like yours, is a massive rewrite according to the intro text.

I'd love to find the original, just to see how much FH changed, and get an idea for why.
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by Serkanner »

I agree. It will be a challenge to find the original version and then compare it with the one I already have.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by Freakzilla »

Any key differences that could easily be pointed out?

I don't know which version I read, it's an ebook.
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by Arrrmanda »

That's really hard to say. I know for sure he changed the basic technology. I'm sure computers changed a whole heck of a lot in 13 years, and I recall someone saying that the original book almost had laughable technology.

As far as "changes in character development" and "certain deletions"...who knows what that means.

Your e-book didn't have any info about where it came from?

My book is kind of deceptive actually. Its got 1965 all over the copyright page and only says 1978 down toward the bottom. As far as I can tell, the original printing is called the Berkley Medallion edition. I'm going to look that up.
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by Arrrmanda »

From what I can find, the earliest edition available in the US is 1970 which is the 5th edition. Amazon.co.uk has one from 1966 though.

This site seems to have a lot of helpful links.
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/h/fra ... n-void.htm
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Re: Pandora Series

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Arrrmanda wrote:Your e-book didn't have any info about where it came from?
It wasn't the type of ebook that gives credit. :wink:
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by Arrrmanda »

Ha.

Man the more I scour Amazon, the more I find book sellers listing the 1978 revision as the 1966 5th edition. Freaking retards. I am going to check ebay. Shit, I may even end up paying 10 bucks for it! :shock:
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by M.A.L »

I loved This series almost as much as Dune. I actually just finished reading it for the second time not to long ago.
It's great, no matter how many times you read certain books, you always pick up something new.
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by Hunchback Jack »

Arrrmanda wrote:Man the more I scour Amazon, the more I find book sellers listing the 1978 revision as the 1966 5th edition. Freaking retards. I am going to check ebay. Shit, I may even end up paying 10 bucks for it! :shock:
Tried ABEbooks?

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Re: Pandora Series

Post by Arrrmanda »

I did check there actually. Found a copy in pretty good condition on ebay though, so I bought it quick. Hopefully it was worth it.
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by nampigai »

sorry to bring this old lady back to life!

I've been looking all over for these books but can't seem to find anything else than second hands - does anyone know if they aren't being printed anymore - if so I guess I'll have to settle with second hand.

*edit

I've found Jesus Incident.
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by SadisticCynic »

I found The Jesus Incident new as well on Amazon. Destination: Void and The Lazarus Effect both came from Ebay though. I haven't found The Ascension Factor yet, though I haven't really been looking too hard.
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by DuneFishUK »

nampigai wrote:sorry to bring this old lady back to life!

I've been looking all over for these books but can't seem to find anything else than second hands - does anyone know if they aren't being printed anymore - if so I guess I'll have to settle with second hand.

*edit

I've found Jesus Incident.
LE and AF are out of print atm.

I'm sure they'll reprint eventually (They released Dosadi in 2002, but Whipping Star had to wait till 2009 ... spot the deliberate mistake :P) but you'd be better off with some nice old editions - you don't want to support the HLP now do you :)
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by Cpt. Aramsham »

I bought an omnibus edition of the Pandora Sequence (published by Wordfire Press... yes, yes, boo hiss! and all that), and it has a preface by Bill Ransom where he describes the process by which he and Frank started working together. It answers a lot of the questions people had earlier in this thread.

Basically, FH solicited Ransom's help on the rewrite of Destination: Void, to "put some of the mathematics into everyday English" (it's not quite clear whether Ransom was supposed to actually do the rewrite, or just act as an editor, suggesting things FH might want to change). So the two were already talking science fiction concepts when FH got involved with Harlan Ellison's Medea project. The idea for which was that a bunch of SF writers would come up with a world together by brainstorming in front of an audience (who could ask questions and pitch in suggestions), then go off and each write a story set on that planet. According to Ransom, some of the ideas FH contributed came from things the two of them had been discussing beforehand.

Anyway, when FH was supposed to be writing his story, Bev fell ill (with what turned out to be cancer), and he didn't have time to work on it. So he asked Ransom to ghost-write it for him, in secret. Which he did (they brainstormed the story together, and Frank took a pass at it at the end to make it more his style, adding a bunch of stuff to the beginning and the end), and no one the wiser. That's "Songs of a Sentient Flute," published in Medea: Harlan's World. (That title! Well, that's Ellison for you! :roll: )

The two enjoyed the collaboration so much that (encouraged by Bev) they decided to expand the concept into a novel. There was some concern over copyright, since it had originated in the Medea shared universe, so to strengthen FH's claim they had the idea to tie it in as a sequel to Destination: Void, and I guess change some of the incidental planetary detail. Medea became Pandora, and the book became The Jesus Incident.

So the conclusion to all this is that "Songs of a Sentient Flute" is not officially set in the same universe as the Pandora series, but is definitely a precursor to it. And yes, there was a major rewrite of Destination: Void, which Bill Ransom contributed to to an unknown extent. I haven't read the novelette in question, so I don't know to what extent it got incorporated into The Jesus Incident or is its own, separate story.
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Re:

Post by Naïve mind »

Omphalos wrote:Omnius really is a pulp era computer/monster. I think it came from some 50's movie.
Colossus: The Forbin Project?

That being said, not having read the Butlerian Jihad novels (not having read anything but a bit of 'House Atreides', to be honest) I am increasingly curious about them.

The way Omnius is described in outlines, as a giant distributed brain, regularly 'synchronizing' itself through slow-moving spaceships, is honestly interesting, and quite similar to the way big, decentralized "cloud" systems (think Facebook, Gmail, etc.) work nowadays. Minus the spaceships of course.
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Re: Re:

Post by Serkanner »

Naïve mind wrote:
Omphalos wrote:Omnius really is a pulp era computer/monster. I think it came from some 50's movie.
Colossus: The Forbin Project?

That being said, not having read the Butlerian Jihad novels (not having read anything but a bit of 'House Atreides', to be honest) I am increasingly curious about them.
You may have mine for cheap.
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Re: Re:

Post by Naïve mind »

Serkanner wrote:You may have mine for cheap.
Well, as long as the only fecal matter attached to them is the metaphorical verbal diarrhoea ...
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Post by Serkanner »

Naïve mind wrote:
Serkanner wrote:You may have mine for cheap.
Well, as long as the only fecal matter attached to them is the metaphorical verbal diarrhoea ...
My butt deserves better ...
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by distrans »

read the series through several times
not realizing destination void was the beginning

was walking to a local store in riverside
cart out front and destination void was right there for a dollar

not the easiest read
ox this and that

finished it and dug out my copy of jesus

the headers and notes made more sense...


several things i dont get
but to focus

how does "god" have the nerve to state he will deprived of anyone???

how can ships physic location
canote anyone individual relations to "him"?!??!?

doesnt make sense
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by Smiley »

If I remember correctly, some of the changes in Void had to do with drugs and how they effect consciousness. I loved D:V much more than the others in the Pandora series. Kept wanting Ship to come back, but then again I was playing Marathon 2 at the time.

It was one of my first exposures to questioning something that we take for granted: what does it mean to be conscious? We know that we are but often people don't question what it means. It's like gravity. Most people know it exists but when you tell them we might not be sure how it works, they just get confused. Stuff falls down. I think. What makes thinking and reasoning possible? Are we sure we are the only ones that can do it? Can a dog think, even if it is in a limited way?

Cats can think. Just look at them. They are conspiring against you...
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Re: Pandora Series

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http://www.mycathatesyou.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Pandora Series

Post by georgiedenbro »

I just finished a first-time read of The Jesus Incident after having finished a second read-through of D:Void. I have to say it was a bit tough to get through. Stylistically it doesn't have the same feel as a book written entirely by FH, and I also felt it was beating around the bush quite a lot in getting to the theme in its culmination. The mystery of the kelp seemed to be built up so much that towards the end it was almost plainly obvious what the answer would be.

That being said, this book has a lot in common with Dan Simmons' Hyperion series - most notably the last couple of books. Most notably, my hypothesis that FH subscribes to the same esoteric school of thought as Simmons has mostly been validated by TJI. D:Void hinted at the idea that true consciousness is awareness that all of space and time are connected and that distance isn't what we think it is, and TJI more or less states it directly. Empathy seems to be the experience of instantaneous contact with remote lives in this book, much as it was in Simmon's four Hyperion books. I'm rather happy, in the end, to have this model of FH's thought to go on in the future, as I suspect it will elucidate some of the more obscure elements in some of his books (I'm not sure all of then employ this model of physics as the Pandora and Dune series do). It certainly goes a long way towards explaining prescience in Dune, as well as perhaps the BG and Tleilaxu abilities.
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