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    busab - secret handshake

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      Non-Dune Frank Herbert Book Discussion

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    busab - secret handshake

    Postby distrans » 19 Jan 2018 00:47

    a position gets set in stone as you author work whos reference most often belies the thought occuring post that which made the note in the first place

    particularly of irritant when the original work indemnified the direction the thought was headed in the first place...

    its been years now but i knew of a particular department of software development wherein a critical understanding of what need there was to sabatage certain types of progress was essential to the aim of the division

    i cannot acknowledge franks mastery of form without recognizing that he was alluding to altogether higher understandings than his advocates have been unable to innumerate to date

    i suggest that frank wished to impart on the future a specific information that has yet to be idemnified
    distrans
     
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    Re: busab - secret handshake

    Postby georgiedenbro » 19 Jan 2018 12:31

    If I'm reading that correctly, do you mean that Frank's text will eventually be understood by someone equipped for it, like a secret handshake? Is this analogous to Leto II's writings in Sietch Tabr, meant for the Bene Gesserit?
    "um-m-m-ah-h-h-hm-m-m-m!"
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    Re: busab - secret handshake

    Postby distrans » 20 Jan 2018 00:12

    a remarkable occurrence that was no doubt,
    i still recall the chills i got when reading it the first time

    no, I wasn't thinking like that

    more that he had assimilated some downright tretcherous understandings about capitalisms effect on humanity and from the perspective they open i dont think he merely wished to entertain us

    i think he boiled those that he had down to bare essentials that he mingled into a style of narative which showed the best chances of remaining cogent for the longest period of time he though he had the ability to influence
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    Re: busab - secret handshake

    Postby georgiedenbro » 22 Jan 2018 11:04

    So you mean that he's right about certain things and that it's not just a story? Well he did say in interviews that Dune was a work of "prediction" rather than fiction, so I do think he intended it to be a statement both about how things are now and where they'll likely go.

    What do you mean by "secret handshake", though?
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    Re: busab - secret handshake

    Postby distrans » 23 Jan 2018 22:44

    i was thinking of god makers and how the protagonist was assumed to still be an insider of the powerful family he had fled as a youth...

    nowhere do the powerful act in lockset more than in the suppression of upstart forces poised to gain the rank at which they can compete among the powerful

    advancement is always subject to hierarchical treatment
    respect for rules both on and off the books

    and doormen are tipped all the more when they demonstrate the ability to properly prioritized just whom gets their best service

    the children of the powerful are taught at early age to understand just which social norms are to be skoffed at as the controls of the lower classes that they are

    that they are illistration of folks who deserve the subjugation their treatment is

    i cant quote it exactly but a good criticism of democracy going back a couple thousand years at least shows the progression of powers control by different actors in society and that democracy needs strick control soas to retard its inevitable lead to idiotcracy and the tyrannys which result

    i think that a combination of intellect and disrespect for authority aided frank in stumbling into a realization of some of the understandings which power holds dear and knew only to encapsulate them in epic story telling

    the manner in which he did this left him free from powers criticism as they are busy confronting major threats
    theres just no army franks work every had a chance of reaching no matter the power of his perspective

    begging the question as to why he did it

    the story doesnt rely on these snippets
    what was he aiming at by their inclusion?
    distrans
     
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    Re: busab - secret handshake

    Postby georgiedenbro » 24 Jan 2018 11:32

    distrans wrote:the story doesnt rely on these snippets
    what was he aiming at by their inclusion?


    Personally, I believe his stories are primarily about political philosophy.
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    Re: busab - secret handshake

    Postby distrans » 28 Jan 2018 11:13

    true,
    but he didn't just reshuffle the chairs of these disiplines so to speak

    he introduced propositions and insights which destabilize traditional philosophy and politics before making his points

    as if the new light shed on the subject was more important than the conclusion he drew from having it


    just finished messiah so one of scytales statements is fresh in my memory

    it was early in the book, the council of plotters where edric had just acknowledged being taught a painful lesion

    "the realm has more than one coin thus the law of supply and demand fails!"

    a non-obvious assertion which is never returned to

    sort of like an epitath
    distrans
     
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    Re: busab - secret handshake

    Postby georgiedenbro » 29 Jan 2018 11:25

    Interesting observation. I'll have to look our for that quote next time I read it. The Scytale scenes are among my favorites in the entire series.
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    Re: busab - secret handshake

    Postby distrans » 29 Jan 2018 19:35

    he really owns that book
    his surprised outcry when paul orders him killed is the most heartfelt exclaimation of the book...
    distrans
     
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