Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:Didn't Judaism and Islam evolve from polytheism?

I've read that Judaism did evolve from a merging of several tribe's religions, but I think each one was already Monotheistic. Could be wrong.

Islam, not so much. Like Chig says it was basically a revision of Judaism and Christianity. Muhammad did bring together many polythiestic groups and convert them. I think he may have borrowed a few traditions from them but did not blend them an pick one god as the highest or anything.

To sum up-

Judaism came from several tribes all of one ethnic group, who worshiped one god. The characteristics each tribe attributed to him all merged, creating Yahweh.

Christianity came from Jesus, believed to be a prophet- they took Judaism one step further, and said hey, anyone can worship Yahweh, instead of just you Jews.

Then Islam came with Mohamed, and said Jesus was only a prophet, not god incarnate. Islam has strong Hindu overtones- then and today.

Pardot Kynes wrote:Christianity came from Jesus, believed to be a prophet- they took Judaism one step further, and said hey, anyone can worship Yahweh, instead of just you Jews.

And also "I don't like all these restrictions, bacon&egg's my favorite" so they ditched all the rules...until the catholic church came by and decided they've been too happy for too long and made every day a fast and sex a sin.

Pretty much

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I don't think he was talking about Islamic Martyrs Orald, he's saying they haven't done as much assimilating of other religions as Christianity.

Islam is a branch-off from Christianity, and Muhammad would have mingled with a fair few Nestorian and Monophysite Christians at the time he was chatting to the Archangel Gabriel.

The Quran's treatment of Jesus and Mary takes elements from Christian Apocrypha. Oh, and Muhammad also mixed up Mary mother of Jesus with Mirian, sister of Moses. Oops.

I don't think Islam was a development of polytheism, it was monotheistic from the start. The "cleansing" of the Kaaba in Mecca of pagan idols during Muhammad's lifetime is an example of Islam's strident monotheism.

As for the Jews coming from several tribes worshipping one god Yahweh, I think there are different traditions mingled together in the Torah. There are Yahwist and Elohist texts all mixed up together in a pretty messy hotchpotch.

Is Buddislamic a Prequel term? I suppose over the millennia it's possible for religions to mingle. Zen and Sunni Islam mingling is a strange idea, though.

CL wrote:The Quran's treatment of Jesus and Mary takes elements from Christian Apocrypha. Oh, and Muhammad also mixed up Mary mother of Jesus with Mirian, sister of Moses. Oops.

I suppose that was a typo, but it's Miriam.
Of course, the original name, not the Anglicinized(?) and Europinized versions is the same for both Jesus' mother and Moses' sister.
So did he confuse her name alone(which wouldn't actually be a confusion since it's the same) or the personas?

No, "Buddislamic" (I've been spelling it wrong...or he did?) appears twice in Dune.

Jesus (or Yeshu'ah?) was a hick revivalist with a strong hankering for the end of the world. It was Saul/Paul that wanted the Jewish dietary and other restrictions (like circumcision) relaxed so that more non-Jews could join, something which brought him into direct conflict with the remaining disciples, who made up what is called the Jerusalem Church. Obviously, Paul won and his creative mystery religion additions to the story became the Truth. (Isn't it odd that his writing make up most of the New Testament? It's kind of like the pattern we're seeing now with Dune: the original message is being drowned in waves of later crap! )

At least put the blame where it really lies.

Were you refering me, Chig? I know it was only after Yashu'a died and Paul Muad'...oops...took over that the real schism appeared.
It was when they set out to win the Greeks, I believe, that they ditched kosher food so it won't put them off.

Christianity in that way is like a Judaism-light.

I wonder if there's a religion with more rules then Judaism.

orald wrote:

CL wrote:The Quran's treatment of Jesus and Mary takes elements from Christian Apocrypha. Oh, and Muhammad also mixed up Mary mother of Jesus with Mirian, sister of Moses. Oops.

I suppose that was a typo, but it's Miriam.
Of course, the original name, not the Anglicinized(?) and Europinized versions is the same for both Jesus' mother and Moses' sister.
So did he confuse her name alone(which wouldn't actually be a confusion since it's the same) or the personas?

Sorry, I meant to type Miriam. Muhammad gets Mary and Miriam mixed up, he refers to Mary the mother of Jesus being the sister of Aaron. The sister of Aaron was Miriam, who was supposed to have lived at least a thousand years before Mary.

Muhammad was the Kevin J Anderson of the ancient world, writing his stuff without checking the sources properly.

orald wrote:Were you refering me, Chig? I know it was only after Yashu'a died and Paul Muad'...oops...took over that the real schism appeared.
It was when they set out to win the Greeks, I believe, that they ditched kosher food so it won't put them off.

Christianity in that way is like a Judaism-light.

I wonder if there's a religion with more rules then Judaism.

I think the big clincher for the Greeks was circumcision. They love their foreskins, like most Europeans. Americans cut their dicks for some inexplicable reason, something to do with avoiding infection. Why not smash all your teeth out to avoid tooth decay?

I find circumcision to be a horrible practice. It deadens your sexual feeling.

Maybe thats why catholics do it.

My dick feels fine enough, I can tell you that much.

Lol, I never knew Muhammad confused the two, that's a major mark on Islam's theological reputation right there.

I wonder if he thought Paul was actually king Saul, the one before king David.

Pardot Kynes wrote:I find circumcision to be a horrible practice. It deadens your sexual feeling.

Maybe thats why catholics do it.

Catholics don't practise circumcision. My mum's Filipina and wanted me and my brothers to be cut but my dad put his foot down and said no, thank God.

I'm cut, but I refused to cut my son. Made no fucking sense at all.

It is a common practice in the US, and has been for a long time regardless of religious affiliation. I think it's starting to lose popularity though, I hear all the time of people refusing to have their sons circumcised. The doctors push this procedure on parents, and parents just want to do what's best for their kids so they allow it, because they trust their Dr isn't just out to make some money off of them.

chanilover wrote:

Pardot Kynes wrote:I find circumcision to be a horrible practice. It deadens your sexual feeling.

Maybe thats why catholics do it.

Catholics don't practise circumcision. My mum's Filipina and wanted me and my brothers to be cut but my dad put his foot down and said no, thank God.

Is your mom a provinicana, or is she from Manila? In the provinces they typcially do it at age 13. Yeesh!

I thought it was a religious thing.

I'm cut, and wish I wasn't. Its the kind of thing that should be each person's choice.

If I werent cut, then I could pretend it were a sandworm with its mouth closed.

Omphalos wrote:If I werent cut, then I could pretend it were a sandworm with its mouth closed.

Have you ever tried to make it talk?

Have you ever tried the WoL?

Serkanner wrote:

Omphalos wrote:If I werent cut, then I could pretend it were a sandworm with its mouth closed.

Have you ever tried to make it talk?

It tells me what to do. Does that count?

Omphalos wrote:

chanilover wrote:

Pardot Kynes wrote:I find circumcision to be a horrible practice. It deadens your sexual feeling.

Maybe thats why catholics do it.

Catholics don't practise circumcision. My mum's Filipina and wanted me and my brothers to be cut but my dad put his foot down and said no, thank God.

Is your mom a provinicana, or is she from Manila? In the provinces they typcially do it at age 13. Yeesh!

No, she's from Manila. I've heard about that practice of circumcising boys really late, I can't imagine how painful that must be.

Anyway, I've got a fully functioning foreskin, which is great fun. Um, this thread was something to do with religion in Dune, wasn't it?

IIRC the circumcision "fad" in America started mainly because some puritans thought that it would make masturbation harder.

Regarding judaism, it's not certain (and very much doubtable) wether they were always monotheistic. They limited their worship to one god from fairly early on, but never made a problem of other people worshipping theirs and didn't claim to hold a monopoly. One theory is that they developed their monotheistic tendencies after being in contact with Zoroastranianism (actually dualism) during the Babylonian exile.

Anathema wrote:IIRC the circumcision "fad" in America started mainly because some puritans thought that it would make masturbation harder.

Lol, that's rediculous! Everyone knows its part of a plot by the Elders of Zion to conquer the world in the name of filthy kike god.

And I can attest that circumcision does NOT at all hinders mastrobation.

So I imagine Paul was uncircumcised. Hope he didn't get sand in the foreskin while masturbating, though!