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    Fremen Reverend Mothers

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      Native inhabitants of Arrakis, descendants of the Zensunni Wanderers

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    Fremen Reverend Mothers

    Postby georgiedenbro » 06 Oct 2014 14:36

    The only Fremen RM we meet is Ramallo. Stilgar made it sound like Tabr had a RM with them most of the time, and that it was bad when they didn't and had to move on. I've always assumed that other Sietches had their own RM as well; is there any reason to believe this isn't so?

    If there were hundreds of Sietch communities, each with their own RM, that would mean hundreds of RM's on Arrakis prior to the Atreides arriving. Supposedly the tribes weren't united before Kynes, but I wonder if the RM's met amongst themselves and had their own private little BG group going on.

    With this many RM's around, the question arises about whether they taught anyone among the Fremen some BG techniques, maybe the Sayyadinas. They certainly kept the religion going, but Dune seems to suggest that no Fremen knew the BG weirding way prior to Paul and Jessica's arrival, for instance. I suppose even if the RM's knew that technique (i.e. descended from real BG lineage) they would have withheld it since BG weren't in the business of teaching random people (especially non-humans) their skills. For all that, I wonder what kind of actions a Fremen RM would have taken if her tribe was in danger of being annihilated.

    One other thing to consider: If the Fremen RM's weren't descended from real BG, meaning they discovered the use of the Rossak drug all on their own and had Fremen allegiance, what must Ramallo have been thinking when she gave the keys to Sietch Tabr over to Jessica, who was definitely affiliated with the BG?
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    Re: Fremen Reverend Mothers

    Postby Sardaukar Capt » 06 Oct 2014 17:57

    Its been a while a since I've read Dune so quite a few of the subplots are hard to recall in great detail, however from what I do recall I get the sense that the BG were seeding Arrakis with "sleepers" for centuries and probably from the time of discovery of the spice and Fremen living in the desert. The spice and water of life was as important to the BG as to anyone else in the empire so the BG would put "agents" on the planet in order to keep an eye on things and manipulate events when they could. While I'm not sure RM were seeded in all Sietches, I'm sure the BG seeded them into the most important and powerful ones.

    I never really considered that the Fremen RM's weren't descended of real BG and in fact don't think of them as descendants at all but instead real RM's planted by the BG on Arrakis to keep an eye on things for the BG because the BG more than anyone knew the number and power of the Fremen on Arrakis. I think the bit about Jessica seeing the markings of the Missionaria Protectiva in the Fremen ways and religion as being evidence of this.
    The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
    Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
    http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

    Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
    Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

    Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

    WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)
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    Re: Fremen Reverend Mothers

    Postby Freakzilla » 06 Oct 2014 22:30

    Sardaukar Capt wrote:Its been a while a since I've read Dune so quite a few of the subplots are hard to recall in great detail


    It hasn't for me and it is not.

    Stilgar certainly makes is sound like every tribe should have their own Reverend Mother. However, I don't think they always do. He makes a point that they can live without one when going to the Palmaries of the South, but it's not a good idea.

    However, I know what you're getting at G.
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    Re: Fremen Reverend Mothers

    Postby Sardaukar Capt » 07 Oct 2014 01:24

    Searched Dune on my Kindle and found this. I'm not sure how I came to think of Fremen RM's as BG sleeper agents, but now I'm coming to the conclusion that the Fremen Sayyadina are an offshoot of the sorceresses that escaped the banding with the Bene Gesserit in the wake of the real Butlerian Jihad and leading up to the C.E.T. but developed similar ways to the BG because they both had the same roots.

    From the scene where Jessica first experiences Other Memory after the Sayyadina rite with the Water of Life and the old Fremen RM passed her memories to Jessica.

    And she saw the thread of the past carried by Sayyadina after Sayyadina—first by word of mouth, hidden in the sand chanteys, then refined through their own Reverend Mothers with the discovery of the poison drug on Rossak ... and now developed to subtle strength on Arrakis in the discovery of the Water of Life.


    From Appendix II: Religion of Dune

    Then came the Butlerian Jihad—two generations of chaos. The god of machine-logic was overthrown among the masses and a new concept was raised: “Man may not be replaced.” Those two generations of violence were a thalamic pause for all humankind. Men looked at their gods and their rituals and saw that both were filled with that most terrible of all equations: fear over ambition. Hesitantly, the leaders of religions whose followers had spilled the blood of billions began meeting to exchange views. It was a move encouraged by the Spacing Guild, which was beginning to build its monopoly over all interstellar travel, and by the Bene Gesserit who were banding the sorceresses. Out of those first ecumenical meetings came two major developments: 1. The realization that all religions had at least one common commandment: “Thou shalt not disfigure the soul.” 2. The Commission of Ecumenical Translators.
    The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
    Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
    http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

    Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
    Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

    Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

    WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)
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    Re: Fremen Reverend Mothers

    Postby Freakzilla » 07 Oct 2014 07:13

    Sardaukar Capt wrote:
    ...the poison drug on Rossak ... and now developed to subtle strength on Arrakis in the discovery of the Water of Life.


    Off topic but I find this interesting. "Subtle strength" makes it sound like the WoL was only slightly better than the Rossak Poison.
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    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
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