Why does Chani have red hair?

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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 18 Sep 2010 14:02

SandChigger wrote:
Idwal Brugh wrote:
Chakobsa is NOT Fremen. They're two separate languages. Read the books. Even the McDune idiots get THAT much right.


It's not even a single language, you dolt.

Huh? Two separate languages are not a single language? I guess that's some profound Kabbalistic insight?


I think he/she was trying to say Chakobsa is more than one language.
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby SandChigger » 18 Sep 2010 21:03

If that was the intention, then trying is the word. ;)

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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby dar.tar » 21 Sep 2010 19:52

As he approached the solitary figure standing near the ornithopter, Leto had studied [Kynes]: tall, thin, dressed for the desert in loose robe, stillsuit, and low boots. The man's hood was thrown back, it's veil hanging to one side, revealing long sandy hair, a sparse beard.

And Pardot Kynes wasn't from Arrakis either. So even if the Fremen generally had a certain coloring, Chani could easily have gotten the red hair from the other side of her family, unless I'm missing something.
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Sep 2010 21:36

dar.tar wrote:
As he approached the solitary figure standing near the ornithopter, Leto had studied [Kynes]: tall, thin, dressed for the desert in loose robe, stillsuit, and low boots. The man's hood was thrown back, it's veil hanging to one side, revealing long sandy hair, a sparse beard.

And Pardot Kynes wasn't from Arrakis either. So even if the Fremen generally had a certain coloring, Chani could easily have gotten the red hair from the other side of her family, unless I'm missing something.


The original post mentions this, calling Chani 3/4 Arab (though Arab should have read Fremen). The point was though that red hair (as we see it in Europeans anyways) is a recessive trait, it absolutely MUST come from both sides of the family or you can't have it. Chani would have only had it from one side, unless there was red hair genes in the Fremen gene pool already before Pardot came.
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby MrFlibble » 22 Sep 2010 07:13

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Chani would have only had it from one side, unless there was red hair genes in the Fremen gene pool already before Pardot came.

Is there any reason to believe there weren't?
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 22 Sep 2010 12:48

MrFlibble wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Chani would have only had it from one side, unless there was red hair genes in the Fremen gene pool already before Pardot came.

Is there any reason to believe there weren't?


No, which is what my earlier posts in this thread argue. This last post I was just pointing out to Dar.Tar that unlike many other traits, red hair cannot come from just one side of the family (again, disclaimer - I know nothing about the redhair gene in Indians and nother dark skinned people, theirs may be entirely seperate and dominant for all I know).
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby RedHeadKevin » 30 Oct 2010 14:15

If red hair has to come from both sides of the family, who in the Atreides line had red hair for the twins to inherit?
EDIT: It probably came from somewhere in the Corrino branch of the family. The Emperor was a redhead.

As a redhead (Daywalker) myself, I've always felt bad for the redheads on Arrakis. Sunburn like crazy!
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby Freakzilla » 30 Oct 2010 14:28

RedHeadKevin wrote:If red hair has to come from both sides of the family, who in the Atreides line had red hair for the twins to inherit?
EDIT: It probably came from somewhere in the Corrino branch of the family. The Emperor was a redhead.

As a redhead (Daywalker) myself, I've always felt bad for the redheads on Arrakis. Sunburn like crazy!


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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby Robspierre » 30 Oct 2010 21:10

Freakzilla wrote:
RedHeadKevin wrote:If red hair has to come from both sides of the family, who in the Atreides line had red hair for the twins to inherit?
EDIT: It probably came from somewhere in the Corrino branch of the family. The Emperor was a redhead.

As a redhead (Daywalker) myself, I've always felt bad for the redheads on Arrakis. Sunburn like crazy!


You just need a big hat.

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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby Freakzilla » 30 Oct 2010 22:41

I've had hick-ups on and off for like two days, I think I'm losing my mind.
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 30 Oct 2010 23:04

RedHeadKevin wrote:If red hair has to come from both sides of the family, who in the Atreides line had red hair for the twins to inherit?
EDIT: It probably came from somewhere in the Corrino branch of the family. The Emperor was a redhead.

As a redhead (Daywalker) myself, I've always felt bad for the redheads on Arrakis. Sunburn like crazy!


It doesn't have to be recent at all. I have an aunt and uncle that are both dark haired brown eyed Ukrainians, but still produced the normal redhead (fair skin, freckles, green eyes). On one side of their ancestry the red hair was something like 6 generations back if I recall correctly. It can potentially lurk in the gene pool unexpressed for as long as it's luck holds out (given that every child has a 50% chance of not getting the recessive gene passed to them), which could be centuries really.
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby SandChigger » 31 Oct 2010 00:13

Freakzilla wrote:
RedHeadKevin wrote:As a redhead (Daywalker) myself, I've always felt bad for the redheads on Arrakis. Sunburn like crazy!

You just need a big hat.

That or... only go out at night. ;)

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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 31 Oct 2010 02:27

Being covered completely save your eyes would help too.

Interesting actually, I just realized that FH talked about stillsuits having cooling mechanisms (by wicking away sweat I believe), but also about Fremen going out at night. Deserts are typically cold as shit at night are they not? Maybe I'm just drunk (welll... maybe isn't really the word) but this kinda seems like a possible oversight on FH's behalf.
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby merkin muffley » 31 Oct 2010 03:30

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Being covered completely save your eyes would help too.

Interesting actually, I just realized that FH talked about stillsuits having cooling mechanisms (by wicking away sweat I believe), but also about Fremen going out at night. Deserts are typically cold as shit at night are they not? Maybe I'm just drunk (welll... maybe isn't really the word) but this kinda seems like a possible oversight on FH's behalf.


Fremen travel at night, don't they? It gets cold, but they wouldn't need more than the jubba cloak and stillsuit, would they? I got stoned and wandered into Joshua Tree one summer without a tent, and then froze my fucking ass off that night, miles away from my car. But I probably would've been alright with a jubba cloak.
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 31 Oct 2010 04:32

merkin muffley wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Being covered completely save your eyes would help too.

Interesting actually, I just realized that FH talked about stillsuits having cooling mechanisms (by wicking away sweat I believe), but also about Fremen going out at night. Deserts are typically cold as shit at night are they not? Maybe I'm just drunk (welll... maybe isn't really the word) but this kinda seems like a possible oversight on FH's behalf.


Fremen travel at night, don't they? It gets cold, but they wouldn't need more than the jubba cloak and stillsuit, would they? I got stoned and wandered into Joshua Tree one summer without a tent, and then froze my fucking ass off that night, miles away from my car. But I probably would've been alright with a jubba cloak.


Fair enough, but I'm pretty sure FH does describe the suits as being cooling, which seems like a deadly bad idea in the desert night. With no water around to maintain temp stability I imagine temps on Dune at night would be terrifyingly cold, we're talking spit freezing cold.
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby Freakzilla » 31 Oct 2010 04:42

I don't remember him describing the stilsuit as cooling...
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby Freakzilla » 31 Oct 2010 04:44

"Certainly," Kynes said. He felt up under the robe for the shoulder seals,
speaking as he examined the suit. "It's basically a micro-sandwich--a highefficiency
filter and heat-exchange system." He adjusted the shoulder seals.
"The skin-contact layer's porous. Perspiration passes through it, having cooled
the body . . . near-normal evaporation process. The next two layers . . . "
Kynes tightened the chest fit. ". . . include heat exchange filaments and salt
precipitators. Salt's reclaimed."


Sweat evaporating apparently still cools the skin, but if it wasn't hot enough you wouldn't sweat.
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby SandChigger » 31 Oct 2010 10:07

Well, they weren't exactly going outside and standing or sitting around stargazing. ;)

Doing their work assignments, going on surveillance and raids... I would imagine that they built up a bit of heat even at night. The main purpose of the stillsuits was to preserve water, no? What cools in the day could well serve to keep them warm at night as well.

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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby SandRider » 31 Oct 2010 10:24

"You must ride the sand in the light of day that Shai-hulud shall see and
know you have no fear," Stilgar had said. "Thus we turn our time around and set
ourselves to sleep this night."

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Paul marked the tone of Stilgar's voice -- half ritual and half that of a
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dryness even for Arrakis.
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby HarryCanyon » 12 Nov 2010 09:43

Well Chani is the oddest of the Fremen tribe for being a redhead while others have dark, Brown, grey or white hair. I think she is considered to be the most unlikely and i guess Paul had a thing for redheads.

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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby Serkanner » 12 Nov 2010 09:48

HarryCanyon wrote: i guess Paul had a thing for redheads.


And you base that on what ... ?
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby Freakzilla » 12 Nov 2010 10:01

Serkanner wrote:
HarryCanyon wrote: i guess Paul had a thing for redheads.


And you base that on what ... ?


His mom and pederast granddad had red hair so naturally... :?
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby inhuien » 12 Nov 2010 12:32

^^^My thoughts exactly.
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby SandRider » 12 Nov 2010 18:21

me, too ....

which brought up the idea of a german incest version of Dune ...
(them germans love them some incest-porn, go figure ...)

y'all can fill-in the blanks for yourselves ...
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Re: Why does Chani have red hair?

Postby SandChigger » 12 Nov 2010 20:13

:clap:

Now DANTSE, Shprockets! DANTSE for Dieter! :dance:


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