• Register
  • Login
  •          

    Fremen for Dunies

    Image
      Native inhabitants of Arrakis, descendants of the Zensunni Wanderers

    Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ

    Fremen for Dunies

    Postby SandChigger » 20 Jun 2010 04:10

    Image

    Basic Expressions

    Achlan [wa-sachlan]! Welcome [and doubly welcome]! (Pronounce ch like in Scottish loch or German Bach)
    Achlan [wa-sachlan] bik[a]/biki/bikum! Welcome to you! (masc/fem/plural)
    Achlan [wa-sachlan] fi sitshina! Welcome to our sietch! (-na suffix means "our" on nouns and "us" on verbs; -i- inserted to break up consonant cluster)
    Marhaba! Welcome!

    Subakh ul kuhar. Ritual Fremen greeting: "Are you well?"
    Subakh un nar. Ritual response: "I am well."

    Aywa. Yes. (Naam also means "yes" but is more formal.)
    La. No.

    Ma ismak? / Ismak ei? What is your name?
    Ismi .... My name is ....

    Shukran [jazilan]! Thank you [very much]!
    Afwan! You're welcome!/Don't mention it!

    Khalas!/Kifaya Stop! Enough!

    (Ana) asif/asfa! (I'm) sorry! (masc/fem) (Nahnu or ihna) asfin! (We're) sorry! (pl)
    Khatai! / Ghaltati! My mistake/error! (My bad!)

    [Mish] arif I [don't] know.
    Mish mushkila! No problem!

    Maassalama! See you later!

    Mabruk! Congratulations! Alf Mabruk! A thousand congratulations!

    Kalam farigh. Empty words, empty prattle.

    ahbal fool(ish), dumbass. (fem: habla) (adjective & noun)

    Ma hadha? What is this?
    Ma dhalika? What is that?


    New Post Index:

    (Second vocabulary list here.)

    Fremen Conlang subdomain now online (but still under construction) on HToD.
    Last edited by SandChigger on 07 Jan 2011 06:09, edited 7 times in total.
    User avatar
    SandChigger
    KJASF Ground Zero
     
    Posts: 14490
    Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
    Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby lotek » 20 Jun 2010 04:20

    Shukran :D
    Spice is the worm's gonads.
    User avatar
    lotek
     
    Posts: 5734
    Joined: 28 Jul 2009 08:33

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby Freakzilla » 20 Jun 2010 04:22

    Outstanding! :D
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 18074
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby MrFlibble » 20 Jun 2010 07:43

    Great! :D Cool cover design, too :lol:
    WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
    MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!
    MrFlibble
     
    Posts: 314
    Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby D Pope » 20 Jun 2010 08:58

    Well done mate! :clap:
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
    -Omphalos
    D Pope
     
    Posts: 1500
    Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
    Location: Grubville

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby SandChigger » 20 Jun 2010 09:37

    (This is just the beginning. And as we all know, a beginning is the time... ;) )
    User avatar
    SandChigger
    KJASF Ground Zero
     
    Posts: 14490
    Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
    Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby D Pope » 20 Jun 2010 09:45

    You go Chigger! Jan Jan Jan!
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
    -Omphalos
    D Pope
     
    Posts: 1500
    Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
    Location: Grubville

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby TheDukester » 20 Jun 2010 13:20

    Nice!

    Be sure to send Freakin Meow a copy ...
    "Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.
    User avatar
    TheDukester
     
    Posts: 3808
    Joined: 20 Jun 2008 13:44
    Location: Operation Enduring Bacon

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby Nekhrun » 20 Jun 2010 15:21

    TheDukester wrote:Nice!

    Be sure to send Freakin Meow a copy ...

    Which of his three comments would he respond with if he saw it:

    A) Valid Point
    B) Stay tuned...
    C) [Edited by Almighty Moderator]

    I'm guessing he'd go for D) and ignore it completely.
    "If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

    Happy Memorial Day everyone! -James C. Harwood

    "Three of my videos have over 100 views."
    "Over 500 views for my 'Open Question' video." -Nebiros
    User avatar
    Nekhrun
    Icelandic Wiener
     
    Posts: 3287
    Joined: 10 Feb 2008 16:27

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby Omphalos » 20 Jun 2010 19:13

    He'd steal it and post it at DN without credit.
    User avatar
    Omphalos
    Inglorious Bastard
     
    Posts: 6584
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 11:07
    Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby SandChigger » 20 Jun 2010 19:27

    I figure that's what he'll end up doing with my new "Fremen & Arabic" resources page. (Did I post a note here about it, or just on the blog & over at FED2k? :? )

    http://resources.hairyticksofdune.net/fremen.php

    I based it on the list on Khalid Baheyeldin's page (not all of his items are added in yet, because I'm still checking some), and romanized everything (since I assume that not everybody reads the Arabic alphabet). I also include some things that Khalid doesn't have; I believe he still hasn't actually read the books. I also disagree with a couple of his entries. (Presumptuous, yes?)
    User avatar
    SandChigger
    KJASF Ground Zero
     
    Posts: 14490
    Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
    Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby MrFlibble » 22 Jun 2010 05:48

    Omphalos wrote:He'd steal it and post it at DN without credit.

    Haha, that's very likely :lol:

    On the other hand, he's bringing knowledge into the masses, who could be blamed for that? :roll:
    WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
    MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!
    MrFlibble
     
    Posts: 314
    Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby SandChigger » 22 Jun 2010 06:09

    Yeah, there's always some way to put a positive spin on the most heinous actions, eh? :lol:

    ...

    Added a couple items to the OP list. :)

    Here's an all-play question:

    How do you say "Fremen" in Fremen?

    Now, "The Terminology of the Imperium" tells us that Misr is "the historical Zensunni (Fremen) term for themselves: 'The People.'" And that "Fremen" itself is defined as "the free tribes of Arrakis, dwellers in the desert, remnants of the Zensunni Wanderers. ('Sand Pirates' according to the Imperial Dictionary.)"

    I've been thinking of Misr (adjective: Misri/Misriyya) as almost a kind of sietch name for the entire Fremen people, something that they wouldn't willingly reveal or use in front of complete outsiders. Which leaves "Fremen" as how they would refer to themselves otherwise.

    "Fremen" is not Arabic in origin. If FH really intended it to be derived from "free men", then we have to consider it as something like hobbit in Tolkien: a name translated from a fictional universe language (probably Galach) into English ("Free-men") and then "weathered" over time into a new form ("Fremen"). So the "real" Duniverse word would most likely not sound anything like "Fremen". But since we don't know the original Galach term or its descendent form, we'll just have to make do with "Fremen".

    I originally started using Faraman/i, by analogy with the Arabic for Yemen/i: Yaman/i. (The extra A between the F & R is necessary because Arabic words can't begin with two consonants.) But recently I've started using Firmani, since it's a little more compact and looks more similar to "Fremen" (and I like the sound better :P ).

    Another possibility is Ifrimani, but that's kind-of even weirder looking, right?

    It doesn't have to be an either-or situation. I'm just curious as to which version people like better. :)
    User avatar
    SandChigger
    KJASF Ground Zero
     
    Posts: 14490
    Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
    Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby lotek » 22 Jun 2010 06:16

    I like that one
    Faraman/i


    But if Fremen was the name they used for outsiders, wouldn't Faramani be a bit too close to Fremen to be a secret name?
    Spice is the worm's gonads.
    User avatar
    lotek
     
    Posts: 5734
    Joined: 28 Jul 2009 08:33

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby inhuien » 22 Jun 2010 06:32

    lotek wrote:I like that one
    Faraman/i


    But if Fremen was the name they used for outsiders, wouldn't Faramani be a bit too close to Fremen to be a secret name?

    Freman was the name that they used to address themselves to outsiders, and unless I've missread Sandchiggers post Faramani is his speculation of how one could say Freman in Freman.

    But then I could be having a Soina moment.
    Image
    User avatar
    inhuien
     
    Posts: 3629
    Joined: 09 Feb 2008 05:03
    Location: right here as in not (all) there

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby MrFlibble » 22 Jun 2010 06:37

    lotek wrote:But if Fremen was the name they used for outsiders, wouldn't Faramani be a bit too close to Fremen to be a secret name?

    If they called themselves Misr, then I don't think Fremen was a "secret" name. Also Stilgar refers to his tribesmen as "Druses", suggesting a particular religious alignment.

    The question is, was "Fremen" a Galach word or not?
    WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
    MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!
    MrFlibble
     
    Posts: 314
    Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby lotek » 22 Jun 2010 06:39

    aw riiight :)

    I thought it was the speculation of their own secret name :)

    Must
    Read
    Again
    To
    Make
    Sense
    !
    Spice is the worm's gonads.
    User avatar
    lotek
     
    Posts: 5734
    Joined: 28 Jul 2009 08:33

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby Nekhrun » 22 Jun 2010 07:08

    MrFlibble wrote:
    Omphalos wrote:He'd steal it and post it at DN without credit.

    ...he's bringing knowledge into the masses, who could be blamed for that? :roll:

    I don't think he'd ever be accused of that.
    "If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

    Happy Memorial Day everyone! -James C. Harwood

    "Three of my videos have over 100 views."
    "Over 500 views for my 'Open Question' video." -Nebiros
    User avatar
    Nekhrun
    Icelandic Wiener
     
    Posts: 3287
    Joined: 10 Feb 2008 16:27

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby SandChigger » 22 Jun 2010 07:45

    He might possibly do it by accident. But then again...


    As far as "Fremen" being a Galach word, if you want to claim that it's derived from English free and men, then that's simply ridiculous and completely untenable after 20,000-plus years. (Of course, in a universe where you have people capable of accessing memories & languages thousands of years old, it's theoretically possible for someone to retrieve long-forgotten words & phrases, but even if the name were adopted by the Fremen after their Reverend Mothers achieved OM access, why would they, essentially Arabs, choose to self-identify using an English phrase?) If, instead, you derive it from something else and coincidentally end up with the sound sequence Fremen (whatever the underlying morphology), then sure, that's possible. It would just be a case of convergent linguistic evolution. :)
    User avatar
    SandChigger
    KJASF Ground Zero
     
    Posts: 14490
    Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
    Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby MrFlibble » 22 Jun 2010 11:51

    SandChigger wrote:As far as "Fremen" being a Galach word, if you want to claim that it's derived from English free and men, then that's simply ridiculous and completely untenable after 20,000-plus years.

    No, my point was a bit different. For example, when Paul asks Hawat if they're going to meet the Fremen, he speaks Galach and uses a Galach word (I suppose). But do the Fremen use that word when they speak their own language? And if yes, was it borrowed from or into Galach?
    WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
    MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!
    MrFlibble
     
    Posts: 314
    Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby Freakzilla » 22 Jun 2010 11:54

    Didn't they call themselves the Ichwan Bedwine?
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 18074
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby SandChigger » 22 Jun 2010 16:23

    (Sorry, that was the "general you" there, not YOU specifically, MrFlibble. I'll check later to see how many times a Fremen uses "Fremen" to refer to Fremen. :) )

    Ichwan Bedwine is literally just the "Brotherhood of Beduins" or "Beduin Brotherhood". It's only used twice outside the Terminology, when Stilgar welcomes Paul into the tribe and in connection with Jamis after his death (he deserves a funeral as one of their "brothers"). Misr appears in the books even less.
    User avatar
    SandChigger
    KJASF Ground Zero
     
    Posts: 14490
    Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
    Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby MrFlibble » 23 Jun 2010 08:25

    By the way, regarding the idea that "Fremen" was actually a Galach word derived from English: I think such a possibility shouldn't be discarded (although certainly nothing in the books supports it). After all, modern languages have quite a few words borrowed from "dead" languages (with English generally having a very high number of Latin borrowings due to historical circumstances), and even some newly-coined words from old elements like automobile, so basically, if English in the Duniverse had been a high-esteemed literary language of the past (and there's no reason to believe it had not), and records of it were still accessible, then theoretically, there's nothing to preclude the possibility of borrowing an English word into Galach (which, being described as Inglo-Slavic, is a related language anyway) or creating a new word from English elements.
    WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
    MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!
    MrFlibble
     
    Posts: 314
    Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

    Re: Fremen for Dunies

    Postby SandChigger » 23 Jun 2010 12:53

    Point taken. I guess the only objection I see to that is the sheer span of time involved, compared to the few hundred years between Latin and English (if you count from the Middle Ages or Renaissance when Latin was the academic lingua franca). The Zensunni began their wanderings around 1,400 years before the Butlerian Jihad, IIRC, but even that's over 9,000 years from now.
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
    User avatar
    SandChigger
    KJASF Ground Zero
     
    Posts: 14490
    Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
    Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"

    Some more general vocabulary...

    Postby SandChigger » 06 Oct 2010 22:08

    Vocabulary List

    abara he/it crossed (a physical space)
    akhra/ukhra (ukhar) adj other (m/f (pl))
    al- the; initial vowel dropped after a vowel; L assimilates to some following consonants (D DH L N R S SH T TH Z)
    athar-dud wormsign
    bilad the bled
    bint (banat) daughter (daughters); girl (girls)
    faqat only
    Ghafran! Pardon me!/I beg your pardon!
    hal word indicating a question
    hatta prep until, up to; adv even
    ibn (banun) son (sons)
    ila to
    irq erg
    janib (jawanib) side (sides)
    kafir (kafirun) infidel (infidels); unbeliever(s).
    kalb (kilab) dog (dogs); kalba (kalbat) bitch (bitches)
    khara feces, shit
    kus (kusat) vagina, "the sea-word"
    lam + imperfect = negative past (perfect)
    lana to us; we have ~ = (there is) to us ~
    li for; li + (a)l + verbal noun = (in order) to infinitive: li-l-wusul (in order) to reach
    limadha why?
    ma which
    min from
    mithla like
    Mumtaz! Excellent!
    raa (yara) he saw (he sees); lam yara-hu he did not see/has not seen it
    umm (ummahat) mother (mothers); ummak your mother
    wasala he reached, arrived, got to; wusul verbal noun reaching, arriving, getting to
    Ya ~! vocative particle; used when calling [to] someone by name. Ya Muad'Dib! "Muad'Dib!/O Muad'Dib!"


    Grammar Note

    To modify one noun using another, to show possession, etc., simply place one noun after the other:

    ibn Farok "Farok's son/son of Farok"; bint Otheym "Otheym's daughter/daughter of Otheym"
    Last edited by SandChigger on 01 Feb 2011 09:40, edited 4 times in total.
    User avatar
    SandChigger
    KJASF Ground Zero
     
    Posts: 14490
    Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
    Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"

    Next

    Return to ˲

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest