Shields, How slow is slow?

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DuneFishUK
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Postby DuneFishUK » 28 Sep 2008 09:53

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Laphtiya wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Laphtiya wrote:Getting BACK on topic, I have another question about shields.

How much damage can they take. For instance can a big enough attack get through? as in explosives, a really heavy object falling on them?

I do remember reading that they have a charge but that was about it.


I'm pretty sure you could drop a nuke, or at least a powerful explosive on one and it'd be fine, there is mention that shields made even heavy artillery obsolete in Dune.


Thats interesting, but what about personal shields how much of a beating could they take?


I got the impression that any sized shield can stop pretty much infinitely powerful blows as long as they have power left - whether more powerful blows cause more battery depletion I don't know.


I always thought shields behaved like when you mix cornflour and water - a paste when you stir it, solid when you punch it.

Inventing pseudo science - would harder blows deplete the battery? Or would the kinetic energy in those blows be converted by the shield? - It's got to go somewhere.

Sole Man

on The shields

Postby Sole Man » 28 Sep 2008 10:17

I;ve been wondering that recently... I know in the Lynch movie it won't go around the knife, I'm pretty sure it won't go around the knife in the Mini eiather.

Logically, it probably wouldn't go around the knife, becuase if its really like the mini and like a set of clothing, then it can only embrace the wearer, not anything the weaer's touching. Otherwise the whole planet would be enwrapperd in them.

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Re: on The shields

Postby Laphtiya » 28 Sep 2008 11:15

Sole Man wrote:I;ve been wondering that recently... I know in the Lynch movie it won't go around the knife, I'm pretty sure it won't go around the knife in the Mini eiather.

Logically, it probably wouldn't go around the knife, becuase if its really like the mini and like a set of clothing, then it can only embrace the wearer, not anything the weaer's touching. Otherwise the whole planet would be enwrapperd in them.


The shield does wrap around the knife in the Lynch movie. I would imagine it would wrap around the knife, there is no reason for it not too. In Dune shields are one of those wounderful things were we are told "just trust us, it works" What if the shield belt scans the user when you put the belt on getting the data it needs to project the field around the wearer. It would also have to constantly update and shift to allow the user to move around, by this assumption the shield would then adapt to fold around the blade.

@Rakis: What about when your bend your arm at a right angle :wink: The shield in dune moves with the person. It would make more sense for there to be a shield around the blade than for there not to be.

@DuneFishUK: That is something I would love to know, how much puinishment could a personal shield take. I don't think that it matters because looking at it, the person in the shield still feels some of the force behind the attack. Moving him around while he is unharmed, I would assume that a round from artilary would still hurt alot, cause some serious injury if not kill you by the sheer force from the physical blast.

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Re: on The shields

Postby DuneFishUK » 28 Sep 2008 11:49

Laphtiya wrote:
Sole Man wrote:I;ve been wondering that recently... I know in the Lynch movie it won't go around the knife, I'm pretty sure it won't go around the knife in the Mini eiather.

Logically, it probably wouldn't go around the knife, becuase if its really like the mini and like a set of clothing, then it can only embrace the wearer, not anything the weaer's touching. Otherwise the whole planet would be enwrapperd in them.


The shield does wrap around the knife in the Lynch movie. I would imagine it would wrap around the knife, there is no reason for it not too. In Dune shields are one of those wounderful things were we are told "just trust us, it works" What if the shield belt scans the user when you put the belt on getting the data it needs to project the field around the wearer. It would also have to constantly update and shift to allow the user to move around, by this assumption the shield would then adapt to fold around the blade.

@Rakis: What about when your bend your arm at a right angle :wink: The shield in dune moves with the person. It would make more sense for there to be a shield around the blade than for there not to be.

@DuneFishUK: That is something I would love to know, how much puinishment could a personal shield take. I don't think that it matters because looking at it, the person in the shield still feels some of the force behind the attack. Moving him around while he is unharmed, I would assume that a round from artilary would still hurt alot, cause some serious injury if not kill you by the sheer force from the physical blast.


Shields give you impenetrable armour against fast moving objects - so a great big cannon ball won't get through the shield. I think I'll stick to my non-newtonian-cornflour analogue for this one. If I strapped a tray of cornflour/water paste to my chest - the cannon ball wouldn't get past the surface of the cornflour. But I'd certainly feel it.

But you could then add in an element of energy dissipation - a slowing effect (crumple-zone if you will) that would help limit the shock of the impact (and the organ/internal damage it might cause). That's how I imagined it anyway :)

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Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 28 Sep 2008 17:22

Informations about the visualization of a shield:

DUNE, page 24 wrote: Paul snapped the force button at his waist, felt the crinkled-skin tingling of the defensive field at his forehead and down his back, heard external sounds take on characteristic shield-filtered flatness.


DUNE, page 24 wrote: He felt the field crackling as shield edges
touched and repelled each other, sensed the electric tingling of the contact along his skin .


DUNE, page 24 wrote: The air within their shield bubbles grew stale from the demands on it that the slow interchange along barrier edges could not replenish.


DUNE, page 217 wrote: The adjustment of his body shield took only a moment, and he paused to sense the skin-tightening at his forehead assuring him he was properly guarded.


DUNE, page wrote: Where Feyd-Rautha's shield met the
slave's halfshield, a blue glow marked the contact. The air around them filled with ozone from the field.


Informations about fighting with shield:

Paul crouched, realizing then that he had no shield, but was trained to fighting with its subtle field around him, trained to react on defense with utmost speed while his attack would be timed to the controlled slowness necessary for penetrating the enemy's shield.


Shields didn't count where the body's own movement could be used against it.


I think that can help in our discussion.
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Postby Freakzilla » 28 Sep 2008 17:39

It would be nice if the original poster could edit the title of this topic to at least include the word "shield" so people know what it is about.

I really hate bad topic titles.
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Postby TheDukester » 28 Sep 2008 17:46

Freak, with phpBB, you should be able to do that from the Administrator Control Panel (I might have that name slightly wrong). If you are logged in and have admin privileges, you should see it at the bottom of every page here.
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Postby Freakzilla » 28 Sep 2008 17:48

TheDukester wrote:Freak, with phpBB, you should be able to do that from the Administrator Control Panel (I might have that name slightly wrong). If you are logged in and have admin privileges, you should see it at the bottom of every page here.


I can, but I would like to give the OP a chance to do so first.
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Postby TheDukester » 28 Sep 2008 17:52

Ah, okay ... got it. Carry on! :)
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Postby Rakis » 29 Sep 2008 00:05

@Rakis: What about when your bend your arm at a right angle The shield in dune moves with the person. It would make more sense for there to be a shield around the blade than for there not to be.


I know, that's why i said like Star Trek, when they can strike back within their shield...but in Dune, if you have a shield over your knife and hit the opponents shield with it, isn't it suppose to rebound or something?

Unless you have to move slow to pass your shield, and then your opponent's...that could be a way to have a full body shield and still fight with a knife...hmmmm :|
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Postby Laphtiya » 29 Sep 2008 05:22

Freakzilla wrote:It would be nice if the original poster could edit the title of this topic to at least include the word "shield" so people know what it is about.

I really hate bad topic titles.


LOL sorry, I'll put it down to one of those "I didn't think before typing" episodes I get now and then.

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Postby Laphtiya » 29 Sep 2008 05:26

Rakis wrote:
@Rakis: What about when your bend your arm at a right angle The shield in dune moves with the person. It would make more sense for there to be a shield around the blade than for there not to be.


I know, that's why i said like Star Trek, when they can strike back within their shield...but in Dune, if you have a shield over your knife and hit the opponents shield with it, isn't it suppose to rebound or something?

Unless you have to move slow to pass your shield, and then your opponent's...that could be a way to have a full body shield and still fight with a knife...hmmmm :|


That would make sense yeah, but I've always thought that it surrounded everything including the knife. It is more simple that way because if it didn't cover the knife because it isn't part of the person then why does it cover the clothing?

It wouldn't matter anyway if there was a shield over it because if your moving at a speed where you can pass his, your shield wouldn't be an issue.

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Postby Rakis » 01 Oct 2008 22:54

I've been reading a little about shields in the DE. Did not find anything major, but i think i'm convinced that the shield covers all the body and, with slow movement, you actually pass through your shield, than your opponent's...makes sense... :)
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Postby Freakzilla » 02 Oct 2008 09:34

Rakis wrote:I've been reading a little about shields in the DE. Did not find anything major, but i think i'm convinced that the shield covers all the body and, with slow movement, you actually pass through your shield, than your opponent's...makes sense... :)


What about the bottom of your feet?

Wouldn't the act of walking be too fast and bounce your feet off the floor?
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Postby The Sons of Idaho » 02 Oct 2008 10:14

Not if you walk without rhythm
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Postby Freakzilla » 02 Oct 2008 10:15

The Sons of Idaho wrote:Not if you walk without rhythm


What does rythym have to do with it? It's all about speed.

Besides, no one wears sheilds on the Bled.
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Postby The Sons of Idaho » 02 Oct 2008 10:42

Freakzilla wrote:What does rythym have to do with it? It's all about speed.


Thats what she said
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Postby Freakzilla » 02 Oct 2008 10:56

The Sons of Idaho wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:What does rythym have to do with it? It's all about speed.


Thats what she said


Is that a thumper in your pocket or are you just glad to see me? :P
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Postby Nekhrun » 02 Oct 2008 11:27

Freakzilla wrote:
Rakis wrote:I've been reading a little about shields in the DE. Did not find anything major, but i think i'm convinced that the shield covers all the body and, with slow movement, you actually pass through your shield, than your opponent's...makes sense... :)


What about the bottom of your feet?

Wouldn't the act of walking be too fast and bounce your feet off the floor?

So if you stand still then your feet go through the shield and become vulnerable to foot attack!

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Postby Freakzilla » 02 Oct 2008 11:30

I think the shield is repeled and stretches from objects on the inside.

:roll:

What happens if you're wearing a shield and you throw something?

These things keep me up at night...
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Postby Nekhrun » 02 Oct 2008 12:09

Freakzilla wrote:I think the shield is repeled and stretches from objects on the inside.

:roll:

What happens if you're wearing a shield and you throw something?

These things keep me up at night...

Or throw up? That could get messy.

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Postby Drunken Idaho » 02 Oct 2008 12:35

Nekhrun wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I think the shield is repeled and stretches from objects on the inside.

:roll:

What happens if you're wearing a shield and you throw something?

These things keep me up at night...

Or throw up? That could get messy.


You vomit very slowly...

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Postby Freakzilla » 02 Oct 2008 12:49

Drunken Idaho wrote:
Nekhrun wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I think the shield is repeled and stretches from objects on the inside.

:roll:

What happens if you're wearing a shield and you throw something?

These things keep me up at night...

Or throw up? That could get messy.


You vomit very slowly...


:lol: I don't think the same rules apply from the inside.
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Postby Laphtiya » 02 Oct 2008 14:02

LOL I agree with Freakzilla, the rules don't apply from the inside. It makes it all alot simpler if that is the case.

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Postby Nekhrun » 02 Oct 2008 14:13

Freakzilla wrote:
Drunken Idaho wrote:
Nekhrun wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I think the shield is repeled and stretches from objects on the inside.

:roll:

What happens if you're wearing a shield and you throw something?

These things keep me up at night...

Or throw up? That could get messy.


You vomit very slowly...


:lol: I don't think the same rules apply from the inside.

So you could spit on a guy and make it stick to his shield to cloud his vision.


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