Orthodox Herbertarian Dune Encyclopedia

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Postby Freakzilla » 19 Jun 2008 10:18

I consider the DE fan fiction.

The work Edric is doing is taken soley from the novels.
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Postby SandChigger » 19 Jun 2008 19:07

^^^ What he said. :)

There really needs to be an encyclopedia for Dune just as there are any number for other fictional universes.

Unfortunately, if you include anything after Chapterhouse, it's going to be just as full of fanfic as The Dune Encyclopedia. :wink:

Since Frank Herbert and Willis McNelly were friends, it's possible that The DE contains ideas that were originated by FH and related by him to McNelly. But as long as there is no public access to FH's notes and materials, it's really impossible to confirm anything so the safest course is to rule out everything in it.

Pinky and The Brian have said that they have not referred to or used The Encyclopedia in writing their own books, so you might think that obviously similar details (the Jihad starting with machines being responsible for the deaths of infants, the role of Norma Cenva as the first Navigator, etc) indicate a FH origin for those ideas. Unfortunately, their word has proven to be of very little worth and their interpretations suspect at best, and only a fool would believe anything they say regarding the content of FH's notes.
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Hunchback Jack » 19 Jun 2008 20:56

It's a tough call. I'd like to call it canon just because there's a lot of interesting stuff in there that doesn't conflict with the novels. But it isn't canon.

Are "canon" and "fanfic" the only options? Could there be a "canon-unless-contradicted-by-later-publications" category? :)

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Postby Freakzilla » 19 Jun 2008 21:31

Canon is only what's written by FH, the six books and the short stories in Eye, IMO.

The rest of it you can call whatever you want. If it doesn't contradict FH, it's well researched fan fiction. What we have now is very poorly researched "official" alternate Duniverse.
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Postby Tleilax Master B » 19 Jun 2008 22:24

Freakzilla wrote:Canon is only what's written by FH, the six books and the short stories in Eye, IMO.

The rest of it you can call whatever you want. If it doesn't contradict FH, it's well researched fan fiction. What we have now is very poorly researched "official" alternate Duniverse.
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Postby chanilover » 20 Jun 2008 04:36

Is it true that Frank originally mentioned Mohiam was Jessica's mother as a joke?
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Postby SandChigger » 20 Jun 2008 05:49

Yeah, he was hung over one morning and Brian and Bruce, who were still teenagers at the time, were being noisy shites so Frank told them that, knowing Brian would scribble it down in his mealtime records.

I watched the little prick's eyes light up and could almost see the gears turning—ever so painfully slowly—in his nappy little noggin. That in itself was enough to alleviate somewhat the pounding in my own.
The Secret Diaries of Frank Herbert, Kevin J. Anderson, editor.
:shock:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Freakzilla » 20 Jun 2008 07:48

Brian didn't even read Dune until he was 30. :roll:
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Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 20 Jun 2008 10:16

Freakzilla wrote:Brian didn't even read Dune until he was 30. :roll:


Are you sure?

I read you ask that on dune novels. Wasn't it deleted by Byron yet? I think it will be...
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Postby Seraphan » 09 Jul 2008 09:17

Of course it will it's an inconvinient truth :lol:
Last edited by Seraphan on 09 Jul 2008 18:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Freakzilla » 09 Jul 2008 09:34

Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Brian didn't even read Dune until he was 30. :roll:


Are you sure?

I read you ask that on dune novels. Wasn't it deleted by Byron yet? I think it will be...


I don't think it has been, yet. But as it turns out someone quoted Dreamer of Dune where it says he was around 30 when he first read it.

So that kind of eliminates the possibility of all those, "Dune discussions with Frank over Wheaties" theories for me.
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Postby HoosierDaddy » 09 Jul 2008 11:13

Freakzilla wrote:
Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Brian didn't even read Dune until he was 30. :roll:


Are you sure?

I read you ask that on dune novels. Wasn't it deleted by Byron yet? I think it will be...


I don't think it has been, yet. But as it turns out someone quoted Dreamer of Dune where it says he was around 30 when he first read it.

So that kind of eliminates the possibility of all those, "Dune discussions with Frank over Wheaties" theories for me.


Does this mean BH didn't read Dune until after his father died?

:shock:

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Postby Freakzilla » 09 Jul 2008 11:16

HoosierDaddy wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Brian didn't even read Dune until he was 30. :roll:


Are you sure?

I read you ask that on dune novels. Wasn't it deleted by Byron yet? I think it will be...


I don't think it has been, yet. But as it turns out someone quoted Dreamer of Dune where it says he was around 30 when he first read it.

So that kind of eliminates the possibility of all those, "Dune discussions with Frank over Wheaties" theories for me.


Does this mean BH didn't read Dune until after his father died?

:shock:


No, he's in his sixties now and FH died what, 24 years ago? So he must have read it a few years before he died.
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Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 09 Jul 2008 12:33

Freakzilla wrote:
HoosierDaddy wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Brian didn't even read Dune until he was 30. :roll:


Are you sure?

I read you ask that on dune novels. Wasn't it deleted by Byron yet? I think it will be...


I don't think it has been, yet. But as it turns out someone quoted Dreamer of Dune where it says he was around 30 when he first read it.

So that kind of eliminates the possibility of all those, "Dune discussions with Frank over Wheaties" theories for me.


Does this mean BH didn't read Dune until after his father died?

:shock:


No, he's in his sixties now and FH died what, 24 years ago? So he must have read it a few years before he died.


I will say what is true to me: If my father had written a book I would be the first to read it, or it would be one of the first things I would read.

I can't shallow that he read his father book only years after. A amazing book, and what probably make his family rich.
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Postby SandChigger » 09 Jul 2008 19:04

Sibling rivalry, remember. ;)

Frank's books were his other "children". Brian and Bruce had to play quietly whenever Frank was writing, so as not to disturb him.

I haven't read all (or even most) of Dreamer of Dune, but I wouldn't be too surprised if Brian didn't grow up just a little jealous of the time his father spent on his other kids, the books. Is it such a stretch to imagine him hating the books and not reading them on purpose?

He obviously blamed his father for his own fuck-ups for many years; he probably hated his father then, too.

(Who posted the quote over there?)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Freakzilla » 09 Jul 2008 19:14

Talos Aquinas wrote:More equivocation? Cannot be bothered to look it up?

In the index of Dreamer of Dune, under Dune, there is an entry "Brian Herbert and, 262-63."

It was early 1974 before I made any attempt to read Dune. After forty pages I gave up. I couldn't get into the book. It seemed convoluted, opaque and full of strange language. (262)

Further down the page, after description of a later meeting with his father in Port Townsend, with the length of the intervening period unspecified...

Now I made another attempt to read Dune, using a library copy since I had loaned mine to a friend and it had been lost. On second reading, the opening pages became more clear, and I found myself hooked. I read it all the way through....

By his own admisssion, he was at least 27 before he read Dune.
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Postby Phaedrus » 09 Jul 2008 19:31

It took him nine years to even TRY to read the book.

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Postby SandChigger » 09 Jul 2008 20:35

Cheers, Freak. :)


Very sad.

:shock:

Hey...is there no indication of how long that gap was?

It just occurred to me...I might have read Dune BEFORE FRANK HERBERT'S OWN SON DID!?! :shock:

Whoa.
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Mr. Teg » 09 Jul 2008 22:03

Freakzilla wrote:
Talos Aquinas wrote:More equivocation? Cannot be bothered to look it up?

In the index of Dreamer of Dune, under Dune, there is an entry "Brian Herbert and, 262-63."

It was early 1974 before I made any attempt to read Dune. After forty pages I gave up. I couldn't get into the book. It seemed convoluted, opaque and full of strange language. (262)

Further down the page, after description of a later meeting with his father in Port Townsend, with the length of the intervening period unspecified...

Now I made another attempt to read Dune, using a library copy since I had loaned mine to a friend and it had been lost. On second reading, the opening pages became more clear, and I found myself hooked. I read it all the way through....

By his own admisssion, he was at least 27 before he read Dune.


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Postby SandChigger » 09 Jul 2008 22:38

Gunja got him where he is today...after a stint selling insurance, writing joke books (which I guess you could say he still does!), and lots and lots of other jobs (including room maid?!) that no one, especially himself, can now remember! :shock:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby orald » 10 Jul 2008 03:41

SandChigger wrote:Gunja got him where he is today...after a stint selling insurance, writing joke books (which I guess you could say he still does!), and lots and lots of other jobs (including room maid?!) that no one, especially himself, can now remember! :shock:

He was also giving handjobs by the side of the road to finance his munchies. *shudder*
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Re:

Postby Idahopotato » 28 Oct 2009 12:14

Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
HoosierDaddy wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Brian didn't even read Dune until he was 30. :roll:


Are you sure?

I read you ask that on dune novels. Wasn't it deleted by Byron yet? I think it will be...


I don't think it has been, yet. But as it turns out someone quoted Dreamer of Dune where it says he was around 30 when he first read it.

So that kind of eliminates the possibility of all those, "Dune discussions with Frank over Wheaties" theories for me.


Does this mean BH didn't read Dune until after his father died?

:shock:


No, he's in his sixties now and FH died what, 24 years ago? So he must have read it a few years before he died.


I will say what is true to me: If my father had written a book I would be the first to read it, or it would be one of the first things I would read.

I can't shallow that he read his father book only years after. A amazing book, and what probably make his family rich.


Perhaps Frank wouldn't let him read it, as he knew that little Bri was just not mature enough to understand it. I guess Frank was wrong after all, since it doesn't seem to matter how old Brian is. He still can't understand it.

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Re: Orthodox Herbertarian Dune Encyclopedia

Postby Redstar » 28 Oct 2009 18:46

My dad wrote a book. First chapter is pretty good, the rest is dated and tells rather than shows to a great extent.

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Re: Re:

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 20 Feb 2010 14:05

Idahopotato wrote:Perhaps Frank wouldn't let him read it, as he knew that little Bri was just not mature enough to understand it. I guess Frank was wrong after all, since it doesn't seem to matter how old Brian is. He still can't understand it.

This is about the same kid who supposedly skipped a grade in highschool. What a failure of a son.

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Re: Re:

Postby SandChigger » 20 Feb 2010 20:56

reverendmotherQ. wrote:This is about the same kid who supposedly skipped a grade in highschool.

Oh, no no no! That story always gets turned around, confuses a lot of people!

He spent a grade in highschool skipping. ;)


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