Dune 7: How would you have done it?

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malika
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Dune 7: How would you have done it?

Postby malika » 28 May 2008 21:01

We all know that Frank Herbert meant to write at least one more book after Chapterhouse: Dune to finish the series of books. However before he could do this the guy died.

Now his son and some low life Scientology collaborator are claiming to have all these notes surrounding sequels and prequels (personally I think that if there even were notes Frank probably burned them all except for one note containing the following message: "Brain...don't even think of screwing up my life's work and don't you even dare think of collaborating with one of those Scientology freaks!" which K.J. Anderson found and simply threw in the fire spawned by Frank's burning notes) and with those "notes" write some of the most horrible crap out there, literally raping all of Frank's hard work.

Ok...so Sandworms of Dune and Hunters of Dune were very...veeeeeeeeery depressing and since we are probably never going to see those "notes" Frank wrote I'm curious; with all that we know about the original six books, how do you imagine the sequel(s) would have been? Who is this "Enemy with the many faces" or who are Daniel and Marty?

Yes I know I didn;t post this in the prequels/sequels section, but I simply assume that that place is just dedicated to that BH/KJA crap and though this place would therefore be more fitting since we are trying to forget/ignore/censor that horrible stuff here! :)

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Postby Pardot Kynes » 28 May 2008 22:01

I WOULDNT have done it. It was much more fun when we had arguments about what MIGHT happen, instead of how fucked up what DID happen is.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 28 May 2008 22:06

Pardot Kynes wrote:I WOULDNT have done it. It was much more fun when we had arguments about what MIGHT happen, instead of how fucked up what DID happen is.

I think that's what he's looking for.
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Postby Pardot Kynes » 28 May 2008 22:11

I know. I'm looking for an old thread from Dreamers about that very subject.
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Postby orald » 29 May 2008 00:06

I would've added some walking dead(from the bio-weapons, of course), lots of swords fights(err, knife...fights?), 'thopters breating fire, umm, lasers from the sky and lots of incestuous sex scenes.

But maybe I'm just influenced by some other works. :roll:

I'm not very good at fan fic.
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Postby malika » 29 May 2008 06:36

That does sound very Frank Herbert like...add some bad porn acting in the mix, something about the Bashar getting a boner and we're ready to go!

As for fan fic...dont worry about that, just questioning what you guys think what might have happened in Dune 7, so plot parts, ideas, characters, etc. You don't have to actually write a whole novel or something! :P

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Postby Mr. Teg » 30 May 2008 00:35

I wouldn't.

I never thought CH was the grande "cliffhanger" that Kevin claims (marketing).

Duncan was finally free and the way the two old folks blew off ghola was enough of a Frank ending for me.

Do we really know that he intended for a Dune 7 after he finished Chapter House?
Perhaps he had originally considered a 7th book, but settled with the conclusion in Chapter House.

If recipes were also part of the "safety deposit" collection, just how much importance should we place on the contents.

If I remember correctly, in several interviews before he died, he was only considering a possible novellette placed before Dune 1, otherwise, he was more interested in other projects and collaborations.
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Postby SandChigger » 30 May 2008 00:55

We really only have Brian's word for it, no?

The copy of Chapter House he was supposedly carrying around and hilighting parts of mysteriously couldn't be found later.

None of the family knew about the safety deposit boxes. Brian boxed up Frank's notes (or maybe Frank had already done it?) and packed them away in the attic or whatever over his garage for over ten years....

Until someone had the brilliant idea of digging them out. :roll:
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Postby Omphalos » 30 May 2008 02:09

I wish we knew somebody who knew FH well enough to take a real guess at what FH would have said about KJA and his hack style.

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Postby Serkanner » 30 May 2008 04:21

Omphalos wrote:I wish we knew somebody who knew FH well enough to take a real guess at what FH would have said about KJA and his hack style.


It would still be a guess, but I have a vivid imagination and it contains a whole lot of different ways to kill KJA; all of them very slowly.

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Postby Mr. Teg » 30 May 2008 05:10

Omphalos wrote:I wish we knew somebody who knew FH well enough to take a real guess at what FH would have said about KJA and his hack style.


If anyone, I would think Bill Ransom.
Last edited by Mr. Teg on 30 May 2008 09:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Omphalos » 30 May 2008 09:01

Mr. Teg wrote:
Omphalos wrote:I wish we knew somebody who knew FH well enough to take a real guess at what FH would have said about KJA and his hack style.


Do you personally think the "Dune" story was basically done after Chapter House?

To continue the Dune thread you would have to artificial keep everything alive which is what Pinky & the Brain basically do.


I dont think that the story was done, Teg. I have lately really been wondering just how big he wanted the last book to be though. I think that there was more he wanted to do, but nowhere near as massive as the dipshit twins imagined it. I think that there was gonna be a war because I just cant imagine that the BG/HM storyline was over. I think Duncan had some more stuff to do. Oh! And don't forget that Leto II had to come bac***SMACK*** Oh! Thanks Chig! I'm better now!

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Postby SandChigger » 30 May 2008 10:03

Huh? Oh, no problem...you were starting to ramble there. I was just trying to figure out what that banana is doing to the cow....

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Postby Pardot Kynes » 30 May 2008 10:59

:shock:

WE HAVE A COW FUCKING SMILEY?
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Postby Freakzilla » 30 May 2008 11:06

We will...
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Postby Pardot Kynes » 30 May 2008 11:08

we will
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What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also.

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Postby Pardot Kynes » 30 May 2008 11:09

ROCK YOU
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Postby orald » 30 May 2008 13:44

SandChigger wrote:I was just trying to figure out what that banana is doing to the cow....

Well, you see Chig, when a man loves a woman...uh, the flowers and the bees they...err...Ask your mother. :shock:
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Postby SandChigger » 30 May 2008 18:43

She's dead. So's Dad. Yes?
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Postby orald » 30 May 2008 18:59

Ask that sister you mention from time to time, you know, the one you love so much. :wink:



*What IS the juicy story behind this, anyway?*
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Postby SandChigger » 30 May 2008 20:19

Nothing really juicy, just another little Peyton Place drama starring a consummate manipulator bitch. From Hell. You know, the kind of human makes you want to smack the people who fucked it into existence. Hard, up the sides of their heads. If they were still around. (The Universe tried to correct its mistake about a decade and a half ago, but she got a window open and bobbed to the surface—like shit does—along with one of her sprogs. The other two and the woman that spawned her were less fortunate. Or maybe they were the lucky ones, beyond her reach?) Anyway, I haven't seen or spoken to her in well over ten years now, but seeing how she's a real slut (some men really will sleep with anything), she probably would be the one to ask. :P
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Postby orald » 30 May 2008 20:37

a real sluttern, you say? Pity she's about your age then. :(

So...do I still have to explain to you abou the birds and bees?

You see, when Xenu brought his victims to Earth...
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Postby SandChigger » 30 May 2008 21:04

OH, GOODY! A fairy tale! Wait while I run get my teddy! :D
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 04 Jun 2008 14:19

To get the thread back on topic for a minute, I've been thinking about what I would have expected Dune 7 by Frank to be (rather than how I would do it).

I don't have any overall story in mind, but there are the unresolved questions from HoD and CHD that I think can be discussed.

Teg is key, it seems to me. A major part of Leto's Golden Path was freeing humanity from being dominated by any future prescient ruler (via no-rooms/no-ships and the Siona genes). Teg circumvents that; he can see no-ships, and may be able to see Atreides as well. He also has the speedy thing going on. So he is either a new threat, or a new saviour (when the Enemy comes along).

It's not clear to me what role Duncan has to play. He can see the new Face Dancers, and they seem to be interested in him. He has all the memories of the past Duncans, but doesn't have the Siona genes. So he is a mixed bag; curse and blessing?

As for the HM/BH alliance, I don't think FH would have spent any time on mopping up renegade Honoured Matre enclaves. It seems pretty clear that he considered the joining of the two sisterhoods to be complete (although factional infighting might continue). They would prepare for the Enemy, and continue seeding new Dunes to ensure melange production continues.

Ah, the Enemy. No idea. May be the Futars Handlers, may be the new Face Dancers, may be something else entirely. Not thinking machines tho.

Incidentally, it wasn't clear to me that Duncan's no-ship had actually moved into a different universe, just a completely different part of the current universe. Perhaps this is a topic for another time.

Finally, the ghola cells in the nullentropy tube. Perhaps this is fringe thinking, but I suspect FH would not have had them grown, but would have destroyed them. Why? Well, firstly, it's not clear that anything would have been gained by relying on heroes from the past - seems like a path to stagnation to me. Secondly, the main Atreides power was prescience, which has little use in a universe of no-ships and Siona genes. So what benefit would they be in any case? Thirdly, I can't see the BG allowing it - resurrecting the two people most destructive to their long-term plans?

I like to think that FH would have made the destruction of the cells a deliberate choice by the main characters to find new answers, not rely on old ones.

HBJ

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 04 Jun 2008 14:57

Hunchback Jack wrote:Teg is key, it seems to me. A major part of Leto's Golden Path was freeing humanity from being dominated by any future prescient ruler (via no-rooms/no-ships and the Siona genes). Teg circumvents that; he can see no-ships, and may be able to see Atreides as well. He also has the speedy thing going on. So he is either a new threat, or a new saviour (when the Enemy comes along).

I don't know if there's much to say that he could have prescient knowledge about people with the Siona genes, so I'm inclined to put him as an asset not a danger. I don't think seeing the no-ships really puts any strain on the LocalGP (I have to come up with some kind of term since the overall GP seems to be past any danger) as it doesn't bring back any real prescience, just an ability so see the now more clearly. I can't see him becoming a potential emperor or other major threat due to this.
It's not clear to me what role Duncan has to play. He can see the new Face Dancers, and they seem to be interested in him. He has all the memories of the past Duncans, but doesn't have the Siona genes. So he is a mixed bag; curse and blessing?

He really went from supporting charactor in the first three to being a key charactor, and eventually he became (debatably) the central charactor. Could almost be a metaphor for the "everyman" taking back control of society from the super heros. I don't know if FH inteded him to be anything more than that. I would guess though that he would end up being the linchpin of the plot, probably just through making the tough choices (as opposed to gaining KH abilities etc).
As for the HM/BH alliance, I don't think FH would have spent any time on mopping up renegade Honoured Matre enclaves. It seems pretty clear that he considered the joining of the two sisterhoods to be complete (although factional infighting might continue). They would prepare for the Enemy, and continue seeding new Dunes to ensure melange production continues.

I'm pretty much with you on this one. I don't see the advantage of adding the "still un-converted" HM vs New BG battle side-plot. I think he would have really ramped up the internal dischord, possibly with the intent of having the BG learn something of their own methods by looking in the "HM mirror". Just a thought.
Ah, the Enemy. No idea. May be the Futars Handlers, may be the new Face Dancers, may be something else entirely. Not thinking machines tho.

I'm not 100% yet on being against some kind of Machine threat, though I would guess in that case that the SFD (is that what we're calling them?) would be at the helm, not the machines. I think it would have been a bit more like how FH describes the machines of the jihad, not terminator style at all. It could be that it's the SFD, but what powers have they gained to make them capable of the tachyon net etc. I'm really torn on this one.
Incidentally, it wasn't clear to me that Duncan's no-ship had actually moved into a different universe, just a completely different part of the current universe. Perhaps this is a topic for another time.

Yeah, I don't remember a tone from the end of chapterhouse but I think that was purly KJABH.
Finally, the ghola cells in the nullentropy tube. Perhaps this is fringe thinking, but I suspect FH would not have had them grown, but would have destroyed them. Why? Well, firstly, it's not clear that anything would have been gained by relying on heroes from the past - seems like a path to stagnation to me. Secondly, the main Atreides power was prescience, which has little use in a universe of no-ships and Siona genes. So what benefit would they be in any case? Thirdly, I can't see the BG allowing it - resurrecting the two people most destructive to their long-term plans?

I like to think that FH would have made the destruction of the cells a deliberate choice by the main characters to find new answers, not rely on old ones.


I could see them maybe bringing back someone and having it become a huge mistake. That's a pretty big stretch tho. I'm with you on this one.
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