Orthodox Herbertarian Dune Timeline


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orald
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Post by orald »

inhuien wrote:This is from memory but is there not talk between Teg and Duncan of Leto II's knowledge of this early No-Globe construction and him turning a blind eye (as he did with the one on IX itself), allowing the last Harkonnens to fritters away their remaining funds.
Yes. The only support for this other than Teg's mentat powers or Lucilla's knowledge is a possible clue from the hidden spice hoard, by the line that says "Harkonnen human sacrificers", which could mean the 21 preserved skeletons of the workers.
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Post by SandChigger »

(I'm not sure why you're preserving the non-colored version, but OK. ;) )
fantomas wrote:
SandChigger wrote:Hang on a bit for an answer on that one, Fantomas, OK?

With all due respect to Edric and his effort, I for one am not ready to declare this "kosher" yet. I'm afraid it needs to be gone over with the ole fine-toothed and parts of it purged of heresies. ;)
Thank You, and while I'll wait, :smoke:
OK...first off, the dates in Appendix IV are obviously wrong when you compare them with what is written in the text. In the very first epigraph in Dune, we are told
Muad'Dib ... born in the 57th year of the Padishah Emperor, Shaddam IV
That gives 10134 + 57 = 10191 ... which is the year the Atreides took over Arrakis, were routed, and Duke Leto I died. Paul was already 15, so Shaddam cannot have been born in 10134. There's no reason for Irulan to lie or change the dates for or age of her father. She also writes:
My father, the Padishah Emperor, was 72 yet looked no more than 35 the year he encompassed the death of Duke Leto and gave Arrakis back to the Harkonnens.
10191 - 72 = 10119. This date also works for the above reference, since 10119 + 57 = 10176 and 10176 + 15 = 10191.

So Shaddam was born in 10119. Edric's note explains the problem with the date for his death:
10212 A.G. Death of Shaddam Corrino IV, this is probable but no fixed date has ever been found in any of Frank Herbert's books! The date of death given in original prints of [Dune] give the date as 10,202 but this is known to be in error as Shaddam is still alive in the first few chapters of [Dune Messiah] which starts in the year 10,206.
There are several references to Shaddam in the present tense in Messiah; for example:
"Very good, m'Lord." Stilgar produced another folder, cleared his throat. "The Qizarate's report on Salusa Secundus. Irulan's father has been putting his legions through landing maneuvers."
As Edric says, there is nothing to indicate when he died.

(I got an email from Edric this evening. He says to consider the timeline very much a work in progress. ;) )
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Post by Omphalos »

SandChigger wrote:(I'm not sure why you're preserving the non-colored version, but OK. ;) )
Two reasons: First, Freak put it up, and I dont want to delete his post. I just got to yours first. Second, I have not compared the two to see if anything accidentally got cut out of yours.

Also, it takes up space that nobody will notice once a few more posts go up, so who cares?
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Post by Freakzilla »

Please replace the one I posted if it looks better. If I had more time I'd have deleted the extra spaces and added color.
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Post by Fantômas »

SandChigger wrote:(I'm not sure why you're preserving the non-colored version, but OK. ;) )
fantomas wrote:
SandChigger wrote:Hang on a bit for an answer on that one, Fantomas, OK?

With all due respect to Edric and his effort, I for one am not ready to declare this "kosher" yet. I'm afraid it needs to be gone over with the ole fine-toothed and parts of it purged of heresies. ;)
Thank You, and while I'll wait, :smoke:
OK...first off, the dates in Appendix IV are obviously wrong when you compare them with what is written in the text. In the very first epigraph in Dune, we are told
Muad'Dib ... born in the 57th year of the Padishah Emperor, Shaddam IV
That gives 10134 + 57 = 10191 ... which is the year the Atreides took over Arrakis, were routed, and Duke Leto I died. Paul was already 15, so Shaddam cannot have been born in 10134. There's no reason for Irulan to lie or change the dates for or age of her father. She also writes:
My father, the Padishah Emperor, was 72 yet looked no more than 35 the year he encompassed the death of Duke Leto and gave Arrakis back to the Harkonnens.
10191 - 72 = 10119. This date also works for the above reference, since 10119 + 57 = 10176 and 10176 + 15 = 10191.

So Shaddam was born in 10119. Edric's note explains the problem with the date for his death:
10212 A.G. Death of Shaddam Corrino IV, this is probable but no fixed date has ever been found in any of Frank Herbert's books! The date of death given in original prints of [Dune] give the date as 10,202 but this is known to be in error as Shaddam is still alive in the first few chapters of [Dune Messiah] which starts in the year 10,206.
There are several references to Shaddam in the present tense in Messiah; for example:
"Very good, m'Lord." Stilgar produced another folder, cleared his throat. "The Qizarate's report on Salusa Secundus. Irulan's father has been putting his legions through landing maneuvers."
As Edric says, there is nothing to indicate when he died.

(I got an email from Edric this evening. He says to consider the timeline very much a work in progress. ;) )
Exhaling...

Thank You, very 8)
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Post by SandChigger »

fantomas wrote:Thank You, very 8)
No problem.

Can someone remember which passage(s) shows the Fenring dates to be off?


(On my colored version, I deleted some space and corrected one typo I saw [rein for reign], but I did all the editing in the boardware, so if there was anything dropped out it should have been really apparent. ;) )
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Post by Freakzilla »

Hey Freak, I've been over to your Jacurutu site and saw the timeline posted, thanks. I've been working in a bubble without net access at home so it was good to see the timeline released to the fans because it needs alot of input. I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but I should make it clear the timeline is stil a work in progress and I released it upon the net for peer review, I know there is still BH & KJA material on it that I missed and I need many fresh sets of eyes to catch the things I missed.

If your board members have any suggestions/comments for the timeline tell them they are welcome to email me at garry_johnston@hotmail.com

Thanks Freak, you been a great help.



Garry
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OFF-TOPIC

Post by SandChigger »

Freak, have you mentioned 'Keen in your mails to him?

I did, but he decided to ignore the issue in his reply. :?
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Post by Freakzilla »

No, I don't really care that much about the subject anymore.
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Post by SandChigger »

Fair enough. ;)
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Post by Lisan Al-Gaib »

I think I found a mistake in this timeline:
The major dams against anarchy in these times were the embryo Guild, the
Bene Gesserit and the Landsraad, which continued its 2,000-year record of
meeting in spite of the severest obstacles. The Guild's part appears clear: they
gave free transport for all Landsraad and C.E.T. business. The Bene Gesserit
role is more obscure. Certainly, this is the time in which they consolidated
their hold upon the sorceresses, explored the subtle narcotics, developed prana-
bindu training and conceived the Missionaria Protectiva, that black arm of
superstition. But it is also the period that saw the composing of the Litany
against Fear and the assembly of the Azhar Book, that bibliographic marvel that
preserves the great secrets of the most ancient faiths.

It's not CONTINUES, it's CONTINUED, in the past.
I ever thought that these 2000-years were started counting in direction of the past, not future....

Another thing:
Why you people put the C.E.T reunion After Guild? I have read the Appendix several times, and for me appears that it happened between the BJ and the Battle of Corrin (because the Corrino's power it's not metion)...

Well, very good work!
But you forgot about this:

Tibana was an apologist for Socratic Christianity, probably a native of IV Anbus who lived between the eight and ninth centuries before Corrino, likely in the second reign of Dalamak. Of his writings, only a portion survives from which
this fragment is taken: "The hearts of all men dwell in the same wilderness."
-from The Dunebuk of Irulan

For me, it's one more data to be added to the timeline!
The singular multiplicity of this universe draws my deepest attention. It is a thing of ultimate beauty.

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Post by orald »

*grumble*

*post generic "I hate him" post and get wierd looks from SC who can mock people all he wants and he's cool, but others aren't if they dare hold a very well deserved grudge*

*grumble*
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
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Post by Tyrant »

orald wrote:*grumble*

*post generic "I hate him" post and get wierd looks from SC who can mock people all he wants and he's cool, but others aren't if they dare hold a very well deserved grudge*

*grumble*
your *grumble* *grumble* reminds me of the moblin guarding the door in the original zelda ..someone give him a piece of meat please :wink:
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Post by SandChigger »

Yeah, the CET dates here don't work. And the Landsraad was in existence for nearly 2000 years BEFORE the Jihad.

I don't know about the CET being BEFORE the Battle of Corrin, but I'm definitely of the opinion now that it was before 1 A.G. ;)


(Look, Orald, I should be the last person to criticize someone else for bashing someone off-topic, but I try to restrict mine to the unproductive and/or unforgivably stupid. Kevin, Brian, most of the HLP and its actions most of the time, and the prequel, pre-prequel, sequel and upcoming interquel books and most of their fans all fall into one or the other or both of those categories. Here Edric has done something productive towards creating something useful and that's what I think most of us are interested in discussing on this thread. If you want to bash him and bitch and moan, why not start another thread just for that purpose? He's not a member here yet, so you can knock yourself silly.)
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Post by inhuien »

Da Timelines first entry wrote:???? B.C.
Sandtrout are brought to Arrakis from an unknown place. Sandtrout begin desertification of the originally water-rich Arrakis and later start the sandtrout-sandworm-melange cycle. [Children of Dune]
As you can see from the quote there the date suffix is B.C. should it not be B.G. to reflex the Duniverse perspective, and there's also A.D. used somewhere IIRC.
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Post by orald »

Well, it could be shown as B.G, but that's for more "recent" events that are still far ahead of our own time.
If the transplanting of sandworms on Arrakis was, say, 30,000 years ago, it'd be more prudent to use B.C.
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
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Post by loremaster »

Sandtrout transplantation still wouldnt be B.C. - as that implies 2000 years before our present state.

Since i think its known (not 100% sure) that humans brought sandtrout to arrakis, it must be AD

I'm 99% B.C. is a typo
The HLP hasnt released Frank's notes yet, Brian hasn't got the handwriting quite right!
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Post by orald »

I'm unclear as to what evidence God Leto had for this, but I'm not so sure he mentioned direct OM or humans in it.
If humans then yes, it'd be B.G, not B.C.
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
Fantômas

Post by Fantômas »

Who's going to do the fixing to the Timeline and how?

I want to say, thank you Edric. Last but not least, thank you to all the Jacurutu' members for their commitment to Dune. I am reading Dune for the second time. I have not read the other Five Books or even own them; I will own and read them, one at a time. The Timeline is very important to a newbie because it sparks interest with fascination that cannot be easily dismissed. I get so emotional at times like this that my heart flutters, skipping a beat for a good cause. That is, until Sandchigger verbally wedges me so deep with his well studied expressions that I have no recourse but to say to his kinder, gentler self :D , I love you man! Can I have a beer? :wink:
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Post by loremaster »

fantomas wrote:Who's going to do the fixing to the Timeline and how?

I want to say, thank you Edric. Last but not least, thank you to all the Jacurutu' members for their commitment to Dune. I am reading Dune for the second time. I have not read the other Five Books or even own them; I will own and read them, one at a time. The Timeline is very important to a newbie because it sparks interest with fascination that cannot be easily dismissed. I get so emotional at times like this that my heart flutters, skipping a beat for a good cause. That is, until Sandchigger verbally wedges me so deep with his well studied expressions that I have no recourse but to say to his kinder, gentler self :D , I love you man! Can I have a beer? :wink:
What have you been smoking/snorting/injecting?

Seriously though, we all enjoy dune for our own reasons. You really should venture into the other 5 after this reread. It's hard going through Dune Messiah. But after that its all gravy. Dune really is just the tip of the iceberg of one of the most complex, convoluted and simply breathtaking plots ever.
The HLP hasnt released Frank's notes yet, Brian hasn't got the handwriting quite right!
Fantômas

Post by Fantômas »

loremaster wrote: What have you been smoking/snorting/injecting?

Seriously though, we all enjoy dune for our own reasons. You really should venture into the other 5 after this reread. It's hard going through Dune Messiah. But after that its all gravy. Dune really is just the tip of the iceberg of one of the most complex, convoluted and simply breathtaking plots ever.
I do not do the hard stuff! I hate needles. Only once did I volunteer :shock: to take injections because I sensed thru my parents feedback that I needed these imported from the U.S. [Edit]Gamma-Globulin shots; I was like 6 years old in Cuba and my immune system crashed. :cry:

It is dry here man! So it looks like I'll be drinking a little bit, for a little bit while :mrgreen: comes back to Miramar.

I've read about the somewhat difficult read of Dune Messiah. I started to read it twenty years ago and could not finish; I thought it was me instead of the book. I did not even know about the rest of the series. I am not a "reader", but commiting to reading the six books is the plan for me.
Thank you :smoke:
Last edited by Fantômas on 22 May 2008 11:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tleilax Master B »

Dammit, I hate being late to the party. I've been so busy lately I don't really have the time to come here much. And I want to go through and scrutinize the timeline, but probably won't get to it before ya'll finish up.

So, I can at least say this. THANKS EDRIC!! For this and the UK version of Chapterhouse you highlighted for us.

Orald, why are you being such a powindah pussy about all this? :? Get over it already before I have to send out my Khadasar to beat the snot out of you. :wink:
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Post by orald »

Oh yes, excuse me while I ban you, steal your board and insert my own Hyperactive kittens to bring it down for good.
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
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Post by Tleilax Master B »

orald wrote:Oh yes, excuse me while I ban you, steal your board and insert my own Hyperactive kittens to bring it down for good.
Curious. How does one "steal" someone elses board without said owner giving said someone the ability to do such??? :?

eh, don't bother answering that, I actually don't really care. But I have this tuned up and ready to play for you:

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:mrgreen:
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Post by orald »

I don't get the joke in the picture.

And it wasn't "mine" per-se(sp?), as someone might hastily mention, but you know full well what I mean. :|
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
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