FH's Opinion on Homosexuality

Schu · Post by **Schu** » 19 Mar 2009 06:11

I think there's something much more repugnant about an old fat guy that rapes young boys than just your regular rapist. Maybe it's the extreme age difference, but I think the fact that gay rape is probably far more damaging than heterosexual rape (at least physically, and probably especially for children) may figure into it, and possibly also the fact that most people are straight, so the baron is not only raping someone but forcing them against their own gender preference.

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 19 Mar 2009 06:19

I think I'd find it more accurate to say people are generally bi-curious with their sexuality, but hovering somewhere closer to "hetero" or "homo" on a sexuality scale depending on upbringing and the like. I'd also think people would be more likely to be bi-curious (at least due to circumstance) in the Dune universe because of the people just like the Baron.

I would assume that many boys on Giedi Prime, especially near the Barony, would pretty much 'know' about the noble leanings and be conditioned to just accept it.

And yeah, I think the ephebophilia/homosexuality is meant to disgust the reader, especially considering the story being published in the 60's. Nowadays people might be questioning why the Baron is a villain with homosexuality as characterization. But in the context of the Dune universe, I think the majority of the people would see it as not as badly as we do. (At least the Giedi Prime populace)

NotAbout · Post by **NotAbout** » 19 Mar 2009 06:19

moreh_yeladim wrote:It doesn't matter if it's technically pedophilia by the standards of whichever culture you happen to come from. The point was that the Baron enjoyed raping relatively-young boys while they were drugged. There's enough perversion there to characterize the Baron even if you set the age of consent at 13 and say homosexuality's OK.

The homosexuality shouldn't really come in to it seeing that rape is still rape despite what genders are concerned. The fact that Frank thought he needed to expressly make the Baron a homosexual pedophile (or Ephebophile, thanks Redstar) tells me he was suggesting a connection between homosexuality and perversion. Just saying...

Also:

inhuien wrote:Homosexuality is OK, okay. Not sure I dig the subtext to your closing phrase there.

NotAbout · Post by **NotAbout** » 19 Mar 2009 06:23

Schu wrote:I think there's something much more repugnant about an old fat guy that rapes young boys than just your regular rapist. Maybe it's the extreme age difference, but I think the fact that gay rape is probably far more damaging than heterosexual rape (at least physically, and probably especially for children) may figure into it, and possibly also the fact that most people are straight, so the baron is not only raping someone but forcing them against their own gender preference.

An old fat guy raping little girls is just as disturbing. I really don't think you can put a measure on this and say one is worse than the other. They're both fucked.

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 19 Mar 2009 06:29

NotAbout wrote:
Schu wrote:I think there's something much more repugnant about an old fat guy that rapes young boys than just your regular rapist. Maybe it's the extreme age difference, but I think the fact that gay rape is probably far more damaging than heterosexual rape (at least physically, and probably especially for children) may figure into it, and possibly also the fact that most people are straight, so the baron is not only raping someone but forcing them against their own gender preference.
An old fat guy raping little girls is just as disturbing. I really don't think you can put a measure on this and say one is worse than the other. They're both fucked.

The Baron just didn't have any imagination

NotAbout · Post by **NotAbout** » 19 Mar 2009 06:34

No doubt Josef Fritzl's descendants will one day form house Harkonnen.

Schu · Post by **Schu** » 19 Mar 2009 07:07

NotAbout wrote:
Schu wrote:I think there's something much more repugnant about an old fat guy that rapes young boys than just your regular rapist. Maybe it's the extreme age difference, but I think the fact that gay rape is probably far more damaging than heterosexual rape (at least physically, and probably especially for children) may figure into it, and possibly also the fact that most people are straight, so the baron is not only raping someone but forcing them against their own gender preference.
An old fat guy raping little girls is just as disturbing. I really don't think you can put a measure on this and say one is worse than the other. They're both fucked.

Maybe so (I'm not sure one way or the other) but I think you'll agree that either is much more repugnant than just your run of the mill rapist (as fucked as that is too).

Redstar - I'm pretty careful about saying the whole "everyone's a little bit bi" thing. I agree that most if not all people probably have the potential to be a bit bi, but that doesn't actually make them bi, and that's as far as I'll pry into that pandora's box.

Are you saying the Baron would repel women and be a factor in their trying out women, or are you saying he would attract men that normally wouldn't be attracted to men? (joking, I actually do understand your point here)

chanilover · Post by **chanilover** » 19 Mar 2009 07:17

Redstar wrote:I think I'd find it more accurate to say people are generally bi-curious with their sexuality,

Whoa! Maybe where you come from! I think sexuality is more like a continuum with people's preferences ranging from exclusively homo or hetero at either end of the scale with a fair few people somewhere in between. Thinking about a guy once doesn't make your gay any more than being attracted to men but hiding it and marrying and living a lie makes you straight.

Frank had a dim view of homos, at least according to his dead gay son who whined to Brian that Frank was never there for him. He made the Baron a gayer to add to the list of depraved tastes of the Harkonnens. I don't think the Baron was just a gay rapist, he was just plain gay who liked a bit of rape to add to the fun. Doesn't he "retire" with Feyd right at the beginning of Dune? I thought that mean they were going to bed together, or maybe that was just my imagination. From what I've read, Frank didn't much care for gays, but so what. It looks like he was a bit of an old cunt in more ways than one.

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 19 Mar 2009 07:20

Schu wrote:Redstar - I'm pretty careful about saying the whole "everyone's a little bit bi" thing. I agree that most if not all people probably have the potential to be a bit bi, but that doesn't actually make them bi, and that's as far as I'll pry into that pandora's box.

My whole take on it is that the people that watch porn generally like to watch boy-girl stuff, otherwise they'd watch exclusively lesbian or gay porn for fear of seeing their respective genitals. This proves (in a roundabout way) that people have at least a subconscious capacity for bisexuality.

But other than that, I wont go into anything else until I finish my human sexualities class.

chanilover · Post by **chanilover** » 19 Mar 2009 07:24

Redstar wrote:
Schu wrote:Redstar - I'm pretty careful about saying the whole "everyone's a little bit bi" thing. I agree that most if not all people probably have the potential to be a bit bi, but that doesn't actually make them bi, and that's as far as I'll pry into that pandora's box.
My whole take on it is that the people that watch porn generally like to watch boy-girl stuff, otherwise they'd watch exclusively lesbian or gay porn for fear of seeing their respective genitals. This proves (in a roundabout way) that people have at least a subconscious capacity for bisexuality.

But other than that, I wont go into anything else until I finish my human sexualities class.

When I was a kid I once watched two dogs fucking in the street outside our house until my mum went out and threw a bucket of water at them. Do you think I might enjoy bestiality if it tried it?

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 19 Mar 2009 07:26

chanilover wrote:When I was a kid I once watched two dogs fucking in the street outside our house until my mum went out and threw a bucket of water at them. Do you think I might enjoy bestiality if it tried it?

Maybe.

NotAbout · Post by **NotAbout** » 19 Mar 2009 07:29

I've always thought of it more as how ChaniLover explained. However, since I really don't have any special insider knowledge on the subject I can't argue the fact. I don't think anybody really knows the true distribution of sexuality for sure.

BTW Redstar, a mate of mine does exclusively watch lesbian stuff for fear of seeing a doodle.

chanilover · Post by **chanilover** » 19 Mar 2009 07:30

In the paper a while ago there was a story about a commuter train which broke down and all the passengers were looking out the window at a man fucking a sheep in a field.

Was that man you?

chanilover · Post by **chanilover** » 19 Mar 2009 07:31

NotAbout wrote:I've always thought of it more as how ChaniLover explained. However, since I really don't have any special insider knowledge on the subject I can't argue the fact. I don't think anybody really knows the true distribution of sexuality for sure.

BTW Redstar, a mate of mine does exclusively watch lesbian stuff for fear of seeing a doodle.

Straight men love dykes. Well, the porno fantasy dykes and the Lindsey Lohans of the world, rather than the butch types.

I quite like lesbians. They're handy for doing plastering and putting up shelves and stuff like that.

Schu · Post by **Schu** » 19 Mar 2009 07:36

NotAbout wrote:BTW Redstar, a mate of mine does exclusively watch lesbian stuff for fear of seeing a doodle.

And I know at least one completely straight guy that doesn't watch lesbian porn because they think homosexual sex is weird and can't relate to the porn unless there's a guy there representing himself.

edit: point being: having someone of the non-preferred gender has no bearing on sexuality

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 19 Mar 2009 07:38

NotAbout wrote:BTW Redstar, a mate of mine does exclusively watch lesbian stuff for fear of seeing a doodle.

The exception that proves the rule, it seems.

chanilover wrote:Straight men love dykes. Well, the porno fantasy dykes and the Lindsey Lohans of the world, rather than the butch types.

I quite like lesbians. They're handy for doing plastering and putting up shelves and stuff like that.

Hm. Lesbianism bores me. I can rarely get into the stuff.

EDIT:

Schu wrote:And I know at least one completely straight guy that doesn't watch lesbian porn because they think homosexual sex is weird and can't relate to the porn unless there's a guy there representing himself.

That's my reason right there.

NotAbout · Post by **NotAbout** » 19 Mar 2009 07:41

Straight men love dykes. Well, the porno fantasy dykes and the Lindsey Lohans of the world, rather than the butch types.

I quite like lesbians. They're handy for doing plastering and putting up shelves and stuff like that.

A lesbian once humored me while I was drunk (ranting at her about nothing) while her girlfriend looked on in a threatening manner.

Schu · Post by **Schu** » 19 Mar 2009 07:43

You point is that some people that watch straight porn because they need to have a man to represent themselves must therefore have some latent bisexuality because they're willing to see penis that isn't their own to see porn they'll enjoy?

Personally, I'm all for the bi girls myself. In fact, I've only had anything sexual with one person that wasn't bi.

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 19 Mar 2009 07:45

Schu wrote:You point is that some people that watch straight porn because they need to have a man to represent themselves must therefore have some latent bisexuality because they're willing to see penis that isn't their own to see porn they'll enjoy?

Personally, I'm all for the bi girls myself. In fact, I've only had anything sexual with one person that wasn't bi.

It's a theory I developed a few years back and I hardly ever take the time to revise what I think up unless I choose to write it in story-form. But at a glance it makes some sense.

Ever girl I've ever dated has been bisexual. I've just gotten used to it, or enjoyed it.

Schu · Post by **Schu** » 19 Mar 2009 07:46

Surely most people are secure enough in their sexuality not to think "uh oh, can't watch that, I might see some penis that isn't mine, and that might mean I'm gay!" without neccesarily having to be "latently gay" or anything in the first place?

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 19 Mar 2009 07:48

Schu wrote:Surely most people are secure enough in their sexuality not to think "uh oh, can't watch that, I might see some penis that isn't mine, and that might mean I'm gay!" without neccesarily having to be "latently gay" or anything in the first place?

I don't think it's something people think about. A guy watches a guy fuck a girl and he gets hard. That's what happens. But if he wasn't at least a little latently bisexual nothing would happen for him and he'd watch lesbianism instead.

But yes, projecting plays a much bigger part than latent bisexuality.

Schu · Post by **Schu** » 19 Mar 2009 07:52

Redstar wrote:I don't think it's something people think about. A guy watches a guy fuck a girl and he gets hard. That's what happens. But if he wasn't at least a little latently bisexual nothing would happen for him and he'd watch lesbianism instead.

That would assume that a man being there is an instant boner-kill for any straight man. You just have to not care (sexually) about men to be straight, not get insta-boner-kill with other men.

Schu · Post by **Schu** » 19 Mar 2009 07:56

chanilover wrote:Thinking about a guy once doesn't make your gay any more than being attracted to men but hiding it and marrying and living a lie makes you straight.

Fish speaker talking to the Tleilaxu wrote:Long pretence makes a reality! you are truly vile!

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 19 Mar 2009 07:59

Schu wrote:
Redstar wrote:I don't think it's something people think about. A guy watches a guy fuck a girl and he gets hard. That's what happens. But if he wasn't at least a little latently bisexual nothing would happen for him and he'd watch lesbianism instead.
That would assume that a man being there is an instant boner-kill for any straight man. You just have to not care (sexually) about men to be straight, not get insta-boner-kill with other men.

That's my point. There are almost no purely-heterosexual men or women because we don't just 'ignore' our sex in porn representations, we 'accept' it because it doesn't get in the way of our sexuality.

(Do discussions on here always go on tangents like these?)

NotAbout · Post by **NotAbout** » 19 Mar 2009 08:01

Redstar wrote: I don't think it's something people think about. A guy watches a guy fuck a girl and he gets hard. That's what happens. But if he wasn't at least a little latently bisexual nothing would happen for him and he'd watch lesbianism instead.

But yes, projecting plays a much bigger part than latent bisexuality.

I don't agree at all. Bisexuality implies attraction to the same sex, if the man isn't attracted to men that aren't having sex with women then how is it bisexuality?