Different editions, missing sentences

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3 P-O
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Different editions, missing sentences

Postby 3 P-O » 15 Jan 2015 17:06

Last time when I was reading Heretics of Dune I was swapping between a Gollancz 2003 paperback and a PDF version which I read on my phone when I was not at home. To keep track of where I was I had to make small notes of the chapters' opening epigraphs and the last sentence I had read.

Once when I was swapping from the paperback to the PDF I could not find the sentence I had just read. On a closer observation there was a whole portion missing from the PDF. I just disregarded this as a small error and didn't make a note of the paragraph.

But then it happened again. The PDF was missing a couple of sentences. Because I was not switching that often it seemed to be more than a coincidence to encounter this again. So I stopped reading the PDF altogether.

The last difference was in chapter 16 (the red colored reference to Kali is missing from the PDF edition):

in Heretics of Dune (Gollancz 2003): Chapter 16 Frank Herbert wrote:"But there would have been no Tyrant, no Muad'dib. The spice gives with one hand and takes with all of its others."
"Kali," he said.
She smiled at his reference to the prehistoric death-goddess of many arms and countless ways to produce agony.
"Kali, indeed," she said.

"Which hand contains that which we desire?" he asked. "Isn't that always the question?"

Are there different editions of the books or is my PDF just poorly done? The missing parts were complete sentences in both cases and the removal did not affect the flow of the text. In other words the sentences were intelligently removed. This makes me think that perhaps Herbert made some changes in later editions?

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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby Omphalos » 15 Jan 2015 20:33

There are a bunch of differences between US and UK editions. To my eye very few of the deletions from either edition make sense.

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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby Aquila ka Hecate » 16 Jan 2015 00:22

Well that's interesting.

I certainly don't recall the reference to Kali in Heretics...and I think I would have, both from the number of times I've read it and my enduring fascination with Pagan deities.

I feel somehow..cheated. :D

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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby 3 P-O » 16 Jan 2015 11:42

The Gollancz edition I mentioned is published in the UK.

A quick search in Google Books shows several editions where the Kali reference is missing.
Here are four:
Heretics Of Dune - Penguin (1987)
Heretics Of Dune - Classics Collection
Heretics Of Dune - BookZilla (2010)
The Complete Dune Collection - Classics Collection

And only one where the reference is included and it is a UK edition:
Heretics Of Dune - Hachette UK (2010)

It would be most interesting to know the reasons behind these changes and how common they are. I stumbled upon two just by accident. And I remember the first one being much longer.

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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby Omphalos » 16 Jan 2015 13:32

I thought we had some posts around here that detailed teh differences????? Someone did a line by line comparison at one time. Freak? sound familiar to you?

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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby lotek » 19 Jan 2015 06:01

There is indeed such a thread.
Spice is the worm's gonads.

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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby Freakzilla » 19 Jan 2015 07:34

I know we have a "Composite" HoD version PDF with everything edited back in at TaU. I'm not sure if it was done in the forum, though.
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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby 3 P-O » 19 Jan 2015 21:11

How are the other books or is just Heretics?
Is the PDF still available somewhere?

I've been thinking about buying the ebook versions since I found out about the missing parts but because I cannot be sure if they are any better than the ones I already have I haven't bothered. Also most ebooks are not DRM-free which sucks if you want to copy text (I need to make notes). And as buying them would support HLP it would just make me sad.

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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby Freakzilla » 19 Jan 2015 22:07

3 P-O wrote:Is the PDF still available somewhere?


Don't be silly.

Yes, I believe the major differences are in HoD.

I've been thinking about buying the ebook versions since I found out about the missing parts but because I cannot be sure if they are any better than the ones I already have I haven't bothered. Also most ebooks are not DRM-free which sucks if you want to copy text (I need to make notes). And as buying them would support HLP it would just make me sad.


So what you're saying is you're not committed to our cause?
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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby 3 P-O » 20 Jan 2015 10:06

Freakzilla wrote:So what you're saying is you're not committed to our cause?


Like I said in my welcome post I wanted to join a place where I can ask questions about Dune and expect to get replies based only on Frank Herbert's work. By default.
If someone asks about Dune for example at scifi.stackexchange.com it is not uncommon that the replies are based on the Brian Herbert & Kevin J. Anderson books. And what bothers me most is when they don't explicitly state it. This can corrupt your mind if you have not read the original books enough times. So for example someone who has read Dune for the first time and wants to ask questions can be lead astray if he gets a reply based on Paul of Dune. This is completely the fault of the policies of the current HLP. I would not mind if they clearly stated that their new Dune books are not canon but just a separate view. But they don't do that. This is why I said that even a small indirect support for the HLP would make me sad.
In short it is easy to ignore the new material but when you go to discussion forums the books jump at you. Here I assume they don't unless I go to the Prequel/Sequel section.
If the above is in line with the forum's cause then I'm committed to it.

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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby Freakzilla » 20 Jan 2015 12:05

10:00 PM last night... I should have been passed out by then. :shock: :obscene-drinkingdrunk:
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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby Freakzilla » 20 Jan 2015 12:07

3 P-O wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:So what you're saying is you're not committed to our cause?


Like I said in my welcome post I wanted to join a place where I can ask questions about Dune and expect to get replies based only on Frank Herbert's work. By default.
If someone asks about Dune for example at scifi.stackexchange.com it is not uncommon that the replies are based on the Brian Herbert & Kevin J. Anderson books. And what bothers me most is when they don't explicitly state it. This can corrupt your mind if you have not read the original books enough times. So for example someone who has read Dune for the first time and wants to ask questions can be lead astray if he gets a reply based on Paul of Dune. This is completely the fault of the policies of the current HLP. I would not mind if they clearly stated that their new Dune books are not canon but just a separate view. But they don't do that. This is why I said that even a small indirect support for the HLP would make me sad.
In short it is easy to ignore the new material but when you go to discussion forums the books jump at you. Here I assume they don't unless I go to the Prequel/Sequel section.
If the above is in line with the forum's cause then I'm committed to it.


This is the danger we warned about all along. And you are correct, the hacks' books are only discussed in the prequel/sequel forum.
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Re: Different editions, missing sentences

Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 24 Jan 2015 09:42

3 P-O wrote:How are the other books or is just Heretics?


Dune Messiah
Heretics of Dune
Chapter House Dune (Chapterhouse: Dune)


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      Re: Different editions, missing sentences

      Postby 3 P-O » 27 Jan 2015 17:17

      Zeuhl wrote:
      3 P-O wrote:How are the other books or is just Heretics?

      Dune Messiah
      Heretics of Dune
      Chapter House Dune (Chapterhouse: Dune)



      Another example I run into today when searching about Other Memory:

      in Chapterhouse: Dune (Gollancz 2003): Chapter 6 Frank Herbert wrote:The crystal had more to impart: "Jews are amused and sometimes dismayed at what they interpret as our copying them. Our breeding records dominated by the female line to control the mating pattern are seen as Jewish. You are only a Jew if your mother was a Jew."
      It's a wise child who knows his own father, Lucilla thought. It was amusing. Reverend Mothers often did not know their parents even after the Agony. Memory had to be brought forward and organized, breaking through barriers at times. Selective Memory was a reality else all was chaos in a new Reverend Mother. "The title carries great meaning but it is not a licence for omnipotence," Proctors had warned her.
      The crystal came to its conclusion: "The Diaspora will be remembered. Keeping this secret involves our deepest honor."

      And there was more later in the same chapter. Just not as interesting as this bit.

      I recently read that the latter books were published first in the UK and then in the US.


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