Star Wars & Dune

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Michelangelo
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Star Wars & Dune

Postby Michelangelo » 07 Aug 2012 15:43

I've looked around older threads, but couldn't find a specific thread addressing Star Wars. What is the general consensus of the Dune community towards Star Wars? Are the artificial resemblances between Arrakis and Tatoonie taken as a welcomed gestured on behalf of Lucas towards Dune? Or is it viewed as being a rip off of an otherwise great setting? Aside from KJA's works, are there any books in the expanded Star Wars literature that are well received? Or is Star Wars considered the poor man's Dune?

I've been rewatching the original Star Wars and Lynch's Dune film, and I'm not quite sure I understand why the former took off but Dune Messiah was never produced as a film. In literate no Star Wars books have come anywhere near the Dune novels. Only the initial Thrawn books seem to be noteworthy within Star Wars literature. Is there a specific reason why Dune has a smaller following despite this?

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Freakzilla
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Freakzilla » 07 Aug 2012 15:50

Tatooine isn't the only similarity: http://www.moongadget.com/origins/dune.html

It was a rip-off. I believe FH even contemplated suing George Lucas at one point.
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Freakzilla
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Freakzilla » 07 Aug 2012 19:30

Dune & Star Wars

Too many similarities to be coincidence.

The Star Wars universe is said to be heavily influenced by the Dune novels. This is a hotly debated topic among fans, as many of the themes present could be said to be archetypes of science fiction and fantasy novels, as well as of world mythology; other fans contend that the Star Wars films are only action films, with almost no deeper meaning. Thus, by this logic any ties between Star Wars and Dune would be very much superficial and coincidental.

The similarities are more common with the early drafts of Star Wars' script. Princess Leia is transporting a crate of spice instead of station plans, the Jedi are identified as Jedi Bindu and the galaxy is divided into great houses. Herbert decided not to sue Star Wars creator George Lucas because the court battle would have gone on for years, making it more costly and troublesome than it was worth.

http://www.squidoo.com/arrakis
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

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ULFsurfer
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby ULFsurfer » 08 Aug 2012 12:10

Every author gets inspiration from earlier work more or less, but that draft of Star Wars sounds almost outrageous.

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Ampoliros
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Ampoliros » 08 Aug 2012 22:54

It's obvious what Frank thought of Star Wars with his 3-PO wood.

There is a fine line between inspiration and theft. I think young George Lucas and Prequel Lucas are two completely different people. (In fact, I think Young Lucas would hate the prequels.)
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Freakzilla
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Freakzilla » 09 Aug 2012 04:58

Ampoliros wrote:It's obvious what Frank thought of Star Wars with his 3-PO wood.

There is a fine line between inspiration and theft. I think young George Lucas and Prequel Lucas are two completely different people. (In fact, I think Young Lucas would hate the prequels.)


Just in case someone isn't familiar with the reference:

Harkonnens had grown some of the finest pilingitam, a wood of steady currency,
always valued by the supremely rich. From the most ancient times, the
knowledgeable had preferred to surround themselves with fine woods rather than
with the mass-produced artificial materials known then as polastine, polaz, and
pormabat latterly: tine, laz, and bat). As far back as the Old Empire there
had been a pejorative label for the small rich and Families Minor arising from
the knowledge of a rare wood's value.
"He's a three P-O," they said, meaning that such a person surrounded himself
with cheap copies made from declasse substances. Even when the supremely rich
were forced to employ one of the distressful three P-Os, they disguised it where
possible behind O-P (the Only P), pilingitam.

~Heretics of Dune
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

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Ampoliros
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Ampoliros » 09 Aug 2012 23:21

reminds me of a certain hack of a man doesn't it.
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lotek
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby lotek » 10 Aug 2012 04:35

Ampoliros wrote:reminds me of a certain hack of a man doesn't it.

only this one went straight to the shit stuff without bothering with being talented first.
Spice is the worm's gonads.

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Sandwurm88
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Sandwurm88 » 18 Aug 2012 12:55

Wow, I never realized that Heretics reference...that certainly does not leave doubt as to FH's opinion on SW.

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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Crizius » 22 Aug 2012 11:52

The worst thing in my opinion about Dune vs star wars debate is that star wars is very (in)famous. There are many blogs about star wars rip offs and star wars is "trope namer" of many tropes. And Dune film was box office flop...
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Freakzilla » 22 Aug 2012 14:33

Big difference though, Star Wars was written as a movie. Dune is almost destined to fail in theaters.
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

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Superdog
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Superdog » 22 Aug 2012 22:02

The first Star Wars movie also lifts from Hidden Fortress. It's influences are sort of all over the place.

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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Freakzilla » 23 Aug 2012 03:12

Superdog wrote:The first Star Wars movie also lifts from Hidden Fortress. It's influences are sort of all over the place.



...with some Seven Samurai thrown in.
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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lotek
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby lotek » 23 Aug 2012 04:16

Freakzilla wrote:Big difference though, Star Wars was written as a movie. Dune is almost destined to fail in theaters.


and now the HLP is here to HeLP do that.
Spice is the worm's gonads.

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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby ULFsurfer » 23 Aug 2012 08:18

Of all the novels with the label "Dune" on them I think Butlerian Shithad felt like Star Wars the most when I read it. Maybe they should focus on turning those into blockbusters first?

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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Freakzilla » 23 Aug 2012 08:21

ULFsurfer wrote:Of all the novels with the label "Dune" on them I think Butlerian Shithad felt like Star Wars the most when I read it. Maybe they should focus on turning those into blockbusters first?



All those special effects won't be free then. :(
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

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ULFsurfer
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby ULFsurfer » 23 Aug 2012 08:24

Those books still lack a sidekick for comic relief. Maybe Erasmus could take on that role? He's like a humorless C3PO in current form.

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lotek
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby lotek » 23 Aug 2012 08:32

more like
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Spice is the worm's gonads.

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DuneFishUK
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby DuneFishUK » 24 Aug 2012 13:36

ULFsurfer wrote:Of all the novels with the label "Dune" on them I think Butlerian Shithad felt like Star Wars the most when I read it. Maybe they should focus on turning those into blockbusters first?

There were the process of pitching the prequels as movies when Paramount turned around and told them "Real Dune of GTFO". :)

Crizius
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Crizius » 03 Sep 2012 12:32

pla·gia·rism
noun
1.
an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author: It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne. Synonyms: appropriation, infringement, piracy, counterfeiting; theft, borrowing, cribbing, passing off.
2.
a piece of writing or other work reflecting such unauthorized use or imitation: “These two manuscripts are clearly plagiarisms,” the editor said, tossing them angrily on the floor.

http://www.moongadget.com/origins/dune.html
http://rip-offornot.com/DSW0001.php
http://forum.dunenovels.com/viewtopic.p ... afe3386dad

I rarely post because most of the time I feel I have nothing to add

There is nothing to fear but fear itself for Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. Fear kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once.

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inhuien
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby inhuien » 03 Sep 2012 13:24

^^^
Yoda equals Thufir? It must be a male pattern baldness thing.

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Crizius
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Crizius » 07 Sep 2012 06:31

lotek wrote:more like
Image


Voiced by Kevin H. Anderson of course.
I rarely post because most of the time I feel I have nothing to add

There is nothing to fear but fear itself for Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. Fear kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once.

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lotek
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby lotek » 07 Sep 2012 06:50

All lines pre-dictahiked.
Spice is the worm's gonads.

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ULFsurfer
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby ULFsurfer » 07 Sep 2012 06:59

Another similarity:


Crizius
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Re: Star Wars & Dune

Postby Crizius » 17 Sep 2012 07:59

“ To start, the narrative and some other elements draw clear inspiration from an old Akira Kurosawa picture named The Hidden Fortress. The climax, the scene where Luke Skywalker's X-Wing blows up the Death Star, is so similar to the WWII English bomber pic The Dam Busters' endshot, that even Lucas himself admits he copied much of the dialogue and refilmed the scene nearly shot-for-shot from that old war movie. Most notably, Lucas borrowed heavily from the Frank Herbert novel Dune. Such iconic trademarks of the series such as the 'Jedi mind trick,' 'desert planet' Tatooine, the very concept of a genetic pseudo-spiritual-telepathic 'force,' patrilineal space knights (Jedis), ten-story man eating worms, among others, are all pilfered. And that point is not even disputed by either Dune's writer or Lucas. There are plenty of sites online which explain what he recycled in further detail, knock yourself out fanboys. ” -
http://www.imdb.com/list/IUgsThQOjGk/
I rarely post because most of the time I feel I have nothing to add

There is nothing to fear but fear itself for Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. Fear kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once.


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