• Register
  • Login
  •          

    First-person narrative

    Image
      Can't find the appropriate forum for your topic? Post it here!

    Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ

    First-person narrative

    Postby mrpsbrk » 28 May 2010 12:02

    In the Chronicles, we have a narrator. Actions are described, not recalled, or told. It is not a monologue. But.

    In my last reading of Ch:D, i began to wonder how much each chapter is told in Frank's voice and how much is the perspective of the character in which this chapter focuses. This time around i kept tabs on who was in each chapter, and almost always the chapter will turn around one single person.

    So i began to think that each one of them is actually narrated from the third person, not-individually, but from this individual perspective. Thus everything we see and hear and pay attention to is part of this one person's approach to the world.

    It is fairly common to have one or two pages about someone else and then come around and focus some more 15-20 pages on the main character. I found just one chapter that was divided more or less evenly, IIRC between Duncan and Murbella (in which case this could be indeed a statement).

    But that would also mean that none of it all is straightly Frank's voice.

    Opinions?
    Marcio (mrpsbrk) does believe in Lord Leto over all other wills and reasons ;-)
    User avatar
    mrpsbrk
     
    Posts: 158
    Joined: 20 Dec 2008 11:08
    Location: Brazil

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby merkin muffley » 28 May 2010 12:33

    EDIT: I'm a very lovely gentleman.
    "I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."
    User avatar
    merkin muffley
     
    Posts: 1584
    Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
    Location: War Room

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 28 May 2010 14:37

    Not sure what you mean about "in Frank's voice".

    IIRC, almost all chapters were told from a character's point of view. That POV might change mid-chapter - sometimes more than once - but there was rarely, if ever, an omniscient third-party perspective on events. I read the six books again recently, and don't remember that convention changing in the last book.

    HBJ
    "The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
    - Carl Sagan

    I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
    - Iain Banks
    User avatar
    Hunchback Jack
     
    Posts: 1982
    Joined: 30 May 2008 15:02
    Location: California, USA

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby merkin muffley » 30 May 2010 01:52

    mrpsbrk wrote:So i began to think that each one of them is actually narrated from the third person, not-individually, but from this individual perspective.



    There's a clear-cut distinction between "First-person narrative" and "Third-person narrative." You are saying that the character has somehow written a chapter about themselves in the third-person.
    "I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."
    User avatar
    merkin muffley
     
    Posts: 1584
    Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
    Location: War Room

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby MrFlibble » 30 May 2010 09:21

    The POVs of different characters are introduced without resorting to first-person narration. The characters' thoughts in italics that are inserted here and there in the text quite frequently are very helpful at this.
    WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
    MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!
    MrFlibble
     
    Posts: 314
    Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby merkin muffley » 30 May 2010 09:27

    Correct, the italics are a person's thoughts and quotes are used when someone speaks.
    "I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."
    User avatar
    merkin muffley
     
    Posts: 1584
    Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
    Location: War Room

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby MrFlibble » 30 May 2010 09:31

    I suppose the omission of quotation marks for inner thoughts made them look more like a stream of consciousness of sorts, more contributing to a character's worldview so to speak, as opposed to the usual "'What a mess,' - he thought", where the narrator's figure is more visible.
    WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
    MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!
    MrFlibble
     
    Posts: 314
    Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby merkin muffley » 30 May 2010 09:42

    MrFlibble wrote:I suppose the omission of quotation marks for inner thoughts made them look more like a stream of consciousness of sorts, more contributing to a character's worldview so to speak, as opposed to the usual "'What a mess,' - he thought", where the narrator's figure is more visible.


    I agree, it's very effective and immediate. (Of course, "he/she thought" is often used with the italics).
    "I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."
    User avatar
    merkin muffley
     
    Posts: 1584
    Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
    Location: War Room

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby MrFlibble » 30 May 2010 10:08

    merkin muffley wrote:I agree, it's very effective and immediate. (Of course, "he/she thought" is often used with the italics).

    I think there's a different degree to which the narrator figure is present in each case.
    WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
    MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!
    MrFlibble
     
    Posts: 314
    Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby merkin muffley » 30 May 2010 10:29

    To me, leaving out "he thought" is about the same as leaving out "he said" with dialogue. I think there's a definite distinction between the type of first-person narrative that The Journals represent, and FH's use of italics to represent thoughts. Technically, these thoughts are a first-person narrative within a third-person narrative, but it's essentially the same thing as internal thoughts put in quotes, or that use "he thought."

    Many times, it is more effective to have it in italics and leave out "he thought." It's still a third-person narrative, though.
    "I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."
    User avatar
    merkin muffley
     
    Posts: 1584
    Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
    Location: War Room

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby Freakzilla » 30 May 2010 10:39

    Sometimes when the author leaves out the he said/she said in lengthy conversations I get lost and have to go back to the last he said/she said. It gets old in every line though.
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 18061
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby MrFlibble » 31 May 2010 09:59

    merkin muffley wrote:Technically, these thoughts are a first-person narrative within a third-person narrative

    I don't think any character's thoughts count as the first-person narration - only those that actually describe certain events from the first-person perspective. As it was mentioned somewhere, the characters' inner thoughts in Dune are more like the "by side" remarks in plays, and Shakespeare is even cited as almost direct influence (I can't remember where I read it, most likely in the "Star Wars sources: Dune" article).

    Freakzilla wrote:It gets old in every line though.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=haH5pWED4A8C&lpg=PA314&ots=p9HEPSoXpm&dq=Yudhisthira%20uvaca&pg=PA314#v=onepage&q&f=true
    WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
    MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!
    MrFlibble
     
    Posts: 314
    Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

    Re: First-person narrative

    Postby merkin muffley » 31 May 2010 21:01

    MrFlibble wrote:
    merkin muffley wrote:Technically, these thoughts are a first-person narrative within a third-person narrative

    I don't think any character's thoughts count as the first-person narration - only those that actually describe certain events from the first-person perspective.


    Yeah, it wouldn't actually be called, and isn't "first-person narrative."

    MrFlibble wrote:As it was mentioned somewhere, the characters' inner thoughts in Dune are more like the "by side" remarks in plays, and Shakespeare is even cited as almost direct influence


    An aside is a good analogy, and the Shakespearean influence is very strong in FH. I remember characters saying, "Words, words" on several occasions, and when Leto II plays word-games with one of the Duncan gholas in GEoD ("here and hear") it also reminds me of Shakespeare.
    "I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."
    User avatar
    merkin muffley
     
    Posts: 1584
    Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
    Location: War Room


    Return to ˱

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests