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Postby SandRider » 25 Dec 2008 14:42

Over There » For Lovers of both the Classic Dune AND the Prequels » God Emperor of Dune (Let's Review) // today

Merritt wrote:This argument seems to always lead nowhere. The OHers believe man vs. man with machine only, while those that enjoyed the prequels/sequels believe otherwise. It's like trying to prove who's right and who's wrong in the Middle East.
katee84 wrote:I don't know how else to say this, Byron, and I've tried. The reason the argument always leads nowhere is that there is just no way to reconcile the two visions of the Butlerian Jihad. Had Brian & Kevin chose to write Dune7, finishing the story Frank Herbert started, then went on from there, into the future of the Dune Universe, there would not have been all this controversy. At this point, and you know this, it's not just "inconsistencies", it's a massive re-imagining of the original universe. And with Paul of Dune being between Dune and Dune Messiah, it's a re-imagining of the original story as well.

Surely you understand the reaction of fans. Frank was once asked if he had intended to start a "cult" with the Dune books. How can you be surprised at their intensity ?

I'm going to take alot of heat for saying this, but I don't really mind the new books. They are "Dune-lite", with none of the subtlies and sophistication of the Classics, but it was clear from the beginning that Brian and Kevin were not writing for the old audience, anyway. But on their own, they fit into a common genre of science fiction being produced today, like the Warhammer 40K series, or all the Star Wars books.

I've said this before : I don't have any fight with Brian and the HLP for the way they've choosen to handle the Dune franchise. I can't, those aren't my decisions to make, and to argue with you about it is to misunderstand how the real world works. I can understand the "Destroying Frank's Legacy" argument, but I think Frank Herbert's work will stand the test of time unscathed.

No, my fight is with the readers on this and other boards that twist Frank's story to fit the new stories. (And this does include you, Byron : I've got a considerable list of quotes from you on this board where you have demostratably misunderstood or misinterpreted a passage of Frank Herbert to support the new books - your status as the boardadmin and HLP member does not exempt you from criticism for such statements about the original books. In fact, it enhances your responsibility - if Arnoldo quotes something completely irrelevant or off-the-point, well, that's just Arnoldo.)

Point One : Frank Herbert's Butlerlian Jihad was a war of men against men with machines.
Point Two : Brian & Kevin's Butlerian Jihad was a war of men against autonomous robots.
Point Three : Point Two does not invalidate or alter Point One.



Happy Holidays. :D


{edit - katee84 just got Freakbanned for that}{and a very Merry Christmas to you, too, Byron !}
{edit - & yeah, that post was deleted ....... :roll: }
Last edited by SandRider on 25 Dec 2008 17:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby DuneFishUK » 25 Dec 2008 17:23

Mandy wrote:Isn't that quote from Paul's fight with Jamis? He wouldn't have known much about Crysknifes at that point.


Yes - that is correct.

Jamis called out in ritual challenge: "May thy knife chip and shatter!"
This knife will break then, Paul thought.

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Postby SandRider » 25 Dec 2008 17:56

Over There » Characters of Dune » Baron Vladimir Harkonnen

Arnie wrote:Yet Feyd and the Baron had a deep distrust of each other. Feyd very nearly succeeds in assassinating the Baron when Feyd arranges a slave to kill the Baron; which would’ve succeeded hadn’t Thufir alerted the Baron. After his plan is discovered Feyd fears for his very life however the Baron convinces Feyd not to try to kill him - - for the he will one day assist Feyd to become Emperor. Behind all of these plans one has to wonder if Thufir is merely plotting to use the Harkonens to get his revenge against the Emperor.


katee84 wrote:Okay, but what about this :
Paul glanced at the crysknife. There was no shearing guard; only the slim round ring of the handle with its raised lip to protect the hand. And even so, he realized that he did not know the breaking tension of this blade, did not even know if it could be broken.


Merritt wrote: :?: :?:


katee84 wrote:THANK YOU !! That is my exact response to every third or fourth post Arnoldo puts up !! :D


Merritt wrote:Oh come on now. You can make the connections with Arnoldo ...at least I can. If you can't ...well ...that might say something, too.


Know all ye present that from this day forth

I shall only refer to Byron Patrick Merritt aka "boardadmin"

as That Asshole .
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Postby SandChigger » 25 Dec 2008 18:42

On that board, That Asshole is way too non-specific.

How about That Asshole with No Balls?

Or That Asshole without the Herbert Name?

You know, something that picks him out of the crowd. :D
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Postby Mandy » 25 Dec 2008 19:15

I <3 katee84

:)

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Postby SandRider » 25 Dec 2008 19:17

her avatar's almost as hot as yours ......

almost .....
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I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
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Postby Nekhrun » 25 Dec 2008 22:46

SandRider wrote:
Over There » For Lovers of both the Classic Dune AND the Prequels » God Emperor of Dune (Let's Review) // today

Merritt wrote:This argument seems to always lead nowhere. The OHers believe man vs. man with machine only, while those that enjoyed the prequels/sequels believe otherwise. It's like trying to prove who's right and who's wrong in the Middle East.
katee84 wrote:I don't know how else to say this, Byron, and I've tried. The reason the argument always leads nowhere is that there is just no way to reconcile the two visions of the Butlerian Jihad. Had Brian & Kevin chose to write Dune7, finishing the story Frank Herbert started, then went on from there, into the future of the Dune Universe, there would not have been all this controversy. At this point, and you know this, it's not just "inconsistencies", it's a massive re-imagining of the original universe. And with Paul of Dune being between Dune and Dune Messiah, it's a re-imagining of the original story as well.

Surely you understand the reaction of fans. Frank was once asked if he had intended to start a "cult" with the Dune books. How can you be surprised at their intensity ?

I'm going to take alot of heat for saying this, but I don't really mind the new books. They are "Dune-lite", with none of the subtlies and sophistication of the Classics, but it was clear from the beginning that Brian and Kevin were not writing for the old audience, anyway. But on their own, they fit into a common genre of science fiction being produced today, like the Warhammer 40K series, or all the Star Wars books.

I've said this before : I don't have any fight with Brian and the HLP for the way they've choosen to handle the Dune franchise. I can't, those aren't my decisions to make, and to argue with you about it is to misunderstand how the real world works. I can understand the "Destroying Frank's Legacy" argument, but I think Frank Herbert's work will stand the test of time unscathed.

No, my fight is with the readers on this and other boards that twist Frank's story to fit the new stories. (And this does include you, Byron : I've got a considerable list of quotes from you on this board where you have demostratably misunderstood or misinterpreted a passage of Frank Herbert to support the new books - your status as the boardadmin and HLP member does not exempt you from criticism for such statements about the original books. In fact, it enhances your responsibility - if Arnoldo quotes something completely irrelevant or off-the-point, well, that's just Arnoldo.)

Point One : Frank Herbert's Butlerlian Jihad was a war of men against men with machines.
Point Two : Brian & Kevin's Butlerian Jihad was a war of men against autonomous robots.
Point Three : Point Two does not invalidate or alter Point One.



Happy Holidays. :D


{edit - katee84 just got Freakbanned for that}{and a very Merry Christmas to you, too, Byron !}
{edit - & yeah, that post was deleted ....... :roll: }

What about that post was ban-worthy? It's a sentiment I've expressed many times myself over there. Does he think that there won't be any more dissent over there just because he bans the members of Jacurutu?

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Postby SandRider » 25 Dec 2008 23:10

It may have something to do with this little Christmas Greeting
I got from Simon this morning :

ImageImage
I'm not implying that Simon told That Asshole that "katee84" was my
sockpuppet, if you been following this little episode, you'll know
I pretty much said so right here, several times. I still stand by my
idea that he's not stalking this board the way he used to - this banning
could just be the "third strike" - That Asshole banned the account twice
before for being mean to Arnie.

For those that don't look Over There, the femtrooper was katee's avatar.
And I'm actually kind of glad she got banned today - I really wanted to
share Simon's drawing. (Altho, That Asshole is so STOOPID I'd bet
dollars to donuts I could get her unbanned again. But I'm moving on now.
It will be more satisfying to get another one in a few days.)

I did tell Simon to look at my pic in the member's gallery & get my beard right, damnit !
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008

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Postby SandChigger » 25 Dec 2008 23:25

Could be wrong but that (squealing) doesn't feel like something Simon would do to me.

I'm sure there are plenty of other mouthbreathers watching or even registered here. Arny, Hyppo, pick your poison.

At least Simon got the manboobs right. :P
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"

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Postby SandRider » 25 Dec 2008 23:38

right, I'm not saying Simon had anything to do with it AT ALL.

it's coincidence, or a Christmas Miracle.

and I don't have man - boobs.

and I have teeth.

he sure got the ear-hair right, tho ....
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
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Postby TheDukester » 26 Dec 2008 00:00

Off-topic alert!

Isn't that femtrooper like some sort of quasi-famous chick who is part of that semi-official Stormtrooper thing (Battalion 501 or whatever the hell it is)? These are the same people that show up in full uniform at Kurt and The Other Guy's book signings; the pictures have been in the Sometimes I Even Mention Dune blog.

Wow, now that I think about it, that could be just one more reason that KJA thinks Dune is Star Wars.
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Postby SandChigger » 26 Dec 2008 00:09

:shock: I just assumed like, you know, she was a Bene Gesserit babe from the McDuniverse....


SandRider wrote:he sure got the ear-hair right, tho ....

Idn't that shit amazing? I've considered braiding mine. And don't EVEN get me started on the nose hair. :shock:
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Postby TheDukester » 26 Dec 2008 00:16

Oh, man ... I knew it.

The very first result from a Google search for "femtrooper" leads to this tomato's personal site.

http://www.sithvixen.com/starwars/femtrooper.html

Yeah, she's got all her parts in the right places, but, seriously ... oh, hell, I'll skip the snarky comment on this one. It's still Christmas here.
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Postby SandRider » 26 Dec 2008 00:18

FAN-tastic ! I found the pic on a google image search for the BSG girls -
saved it for a rainy day. Thought, if the stormtroopers looked like that,
I'd get all the movies on DVD.







{edit- I just emailed her Simon's drawing}
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I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
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Postby GamePlayer » 27 Dec 2008 12:57

She's okay. She's basically just a cosplayer that doesn't look like a bloated warthog, but she's average at best. I've seen way better cosplayers. In fact, we should probably have an ongoing thread :)
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Postby Freakzilla » 27 Dec 2008 13:04

Ah...she's a Georgia chick! I'll have to look for her at the next con.

Armored boobs are awesome.
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re:

Postby cmsahe » 09 Jan 2009 21:43

Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:Oh My, is it the "alien roads" question again? English is not my first language, however, even I can see that "alien roads" means something strange, exotic or never explored before....

I could be wrong, but wasn't the word "Alien" used to refer to E.T.'s only after the Ridley Scott's Alien?


No you are wrong. In classic Doctor Who, "Alien" meant extraterrestrial. And I have just watched the episode 3 of the adventure "Pyramids of Mars", broadcast in December 1975, the villain Sutehk describes the Doctor as an Alien.
Only the books written by Frank Herbert are canon.


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Postby SandChigger » 10 Jan 2009 02:59

Um...I go back a ways before 1975 and I'm pretty sure I first learned the word alien in its "You ain't from around these parts, are you, Green Boy?" sense. ;)
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Postby Serkanner » 10 Jan 2009 06:17

I think Carlos means the use of the word "alien" as an ET was first used in Doctor Who and not the film Alien. The word itself is, of course, at least as old as yourself.
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Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."

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Postby SandChigger » 10 Jan 2009 07:06

Right. I grew up in the '60s and watched all the scifi TV and movies I could. I bet they used the word "alien" in the ET sense in Star Trek TOS, well before both Dr Who and E.T. and Alien. ;)

I meant that alien in the sense of "little green men" was probably how I learned the word. ;)
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Postby inhuien » 11 Jan 2009 07:45

^^^Dr. Who preceded Star Trek by almost 3 years IIRC but hey what the you can have this one.

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Postby SandChigger » 11 Jan 2009 08:42

Oops. Sorry 'bout that.

Where I lived we only had the series with Tom Baker, on PBS in the mid '70s. Self-centric viewpoint. ;)
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Postby Serkanner » 11 Jan 2009 10:12

Is it a bad thing that I watched only one episode ever of the Dr. in my entire (40) life?
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."

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Postby DuneFishUK » 11 Jan 2009 11:47

Serkanner wrote:Is it a bad thing that I watched only one episode ever of the Dr. in my entire (40) life?


Depends which episode...

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Postby SandChigger » 11 Jan 2009 17:49

:lol:
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