Those ALIEN Roads


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Those ALIEN Roads

Post by SandChigger »

Okay, let's put this one to rest once and for all:
FH in GEoD wrote:Involuntarily, Leto's thoughts sank into the memories aroused by these words.

"Ahhh, Moneo," he muttered. "My travels in the ancestral mazes have memorized uncounted places and events which I never desire to see repeated."

"I can imagine your inward travels, Lord."

"No, you cannot. I have seen peoples and planets in such numbers that they lose meaning even in imagination. Ohhh, the landscapes I have passed. The calligraphy of alien roads glimpsed from space and imprinted upon my innermost sight. The eroded sculpture of canyons and cliffs and galaxies has imprinted upon me the certain knowledge that I am a mote."
Leto is not speaking about his prescient visions here. He is referring to things seen in his Other Memory.

IF "alien roads" referred to structures on a machine planet, they would have had to have been seen by one of Leto's ancestors. Which means some human would have had to have seen some part of the wonderful reborn machine empire and then returned to human space/the Imperium.

So why then didn't they tell anyone about the threat?

READING IS FUNDAMENTAL.

BYRON, SHUT UP AND FUCKING LEARN TO READ.
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Post by SandRider »

"calligraphy of alien roads glimpsed from space" is too poetic & metaphorical, with too many
possible explanations to state definitively what Leto meant here, without a direct quote from Frank.

I have never taken this literally, i.e. some type of "infrastructure" of an "alien race" because there are no
alien races in the Known Universe. I believe "alien roads" here means foreign & exotic space, unexplored,
merely glimpsed in the travels of Leto's ancestors. "Untravelled".

As for Merritt and the pretard non-sense, I can only say : "What ? What the fuck are you babbling about ?"

Oh, and "Shut up, Byron."
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Post by Lisan Al-Gaib »

Oh My, is it the "alien roads" question again? English is not my first language, however, even I can see that "alien roads" means something strange, exotic or never explored before....

I could be wrong, but wasn't the word "Alien" used to refer to E.T.'s only after the Ridley Scott's Alien?
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Post by TheDukester »

And not only that ... but shut the fuck up, Byron.
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Post by SandRider »

What SandChigger is talking about :
Over There somewhere ...
Merritt wrote:
Bel Moulay wrote:I saw someone mention a quote from Leto II about seeing distant roads and cities that were alien to him. Could it possibly be the organized city grids of the machine cities? I mean they would be alien to him considering it's impossible to store any ancestrial memories from machines for so many obvious reasons. What if the golden path was to strengthen mankind against it's ancient arch-nemesis who have been rapidly growing in the farthest reaches of the universe. Not only could Leto II wanted to strengthen the human race but also multiply their numbers for the ultimate battle ahead.
Lots of fan speculation on that one. Some say it was "alien" to Leto II only, not specifically an alien society (i.e., the machine society). Others say since Leto II was heavily prescient, not much could be hidden from him, so there is a high probability that this could be a machine city similar to what Brian and Kevin have written about.
(Also keep in mind that the pretard here has not read God-emperor)
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Post by EsperandoAGodot »

All the term "alien" seems to mean is "unfamiliar." Why do they reach so hard? So desperately? It's like any time a character in FH's books makes a nonspecific reference, rather than just use Ockham's Razor, they jump through a Machine Hoop.
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Post by GamePlayer »

Has Dumbnovels sunken so low that simply using the word "alien" (regardless of context) is taken by the pretards as "proof" that aliens exist in Dune? Has Dumbnovels really become THAT bad?

I may have to lower my opinion of that website, but I'm at a loss for what would be lower than the fetid fungal growth that resides beneath the bottom of the barrel. :)
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Post by Seraphan »

Ok...a series of books centering on mankind and they jump into alien races like it's star wars or star trek. I fucking weep :cry: . How can someone read the novels and think that, out loud? It means they've pretty much missed the point of everything in them, doesnt it?. It's like Lisan said, "alien - strange, exotic, unexplored, never seen before".
Yes it is that low, lowest like i never thought it could be lowered:
Byron: "I know my grandfather better than you!", "Some say it was "alien" to Leto II only, not specifically an alien society (i.e., the machine society). Others say since Leto II was heavily prescient, not much could be hidden from him, so there is a high probability that this could be a machine city similar to what Brian and Kevin have written about."
You know byron, one of the purposes of lying is to hide the truth; making it look obvious that you're lying kinda fucks up the whole scenario you're trying to build. Tool :evil:
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Post by SandChigger »

I got so pissed off about this (finally) that I blogged about it, too. There I provided more context:

Byron quoted just a small part of the passage in question in the OP of the "God Emperor of Dune (Let's Review)" thread over on DN:
To back up what Brian and Kevin are writing about, here are some words from God Emperor of Dune which could help clarify the possibility of a more powerful entity and an alien presence:

"I have seen peoples and planets in such numbers that they lose meaning even in imagination. Ohhh, the landscapes I have passed. The calligraphy of alien roads glimpsed from space and imprinted upon my innermost sight. The eroded sculpture of canyons and cliffs and galaxies has imprinted upon me the certain knowledge that I am a mote."
I assumed that mention of "machine planet" would make it clear here as well that he was trying to support the McDune bullshit.

It's NOT about alien life or that sort of nonsense. It's "alien = thinking machine" nonsense.

As I mention in my blog, I won't say that Byron did this on purpose, that he clipped the passage down with the intent to deceive, mainly because I seem to remember he's misread another thing or two in the past. (I can't recall exact instances, however. Maybe someone else can?)

If someone has already called him on this in that thread, I've missed it. And it obviously still hasn't made any impression on him, because he's still posting about it.

THESE ARE THE BRAINS WHO HOLD FRANK HERBERT'S LEGACY IN TRUST. :roll:
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Post by SandChigger »

Someone picking and choosing their texts wrote:here are some words from God Emperor of Dune which could help clarify the possibility of a more powerful entity
It just occurred to me that I haven't addressed this part of it at all yet. So allow me to do so now:

LEARN TO READ, YOU FUCKING MORON.
...uncounted places and events...peoples and planets in such numbers that they lose meaning even in imagination...landscapes...alien roads glimpsed from space...The eroded sculpture of canyons and cliffs and galaxies...
If he's speaking of a greater "more powerful entity" there at all he means THE UNIVERSE. (Or the galaxy. :P )

THAT's what makes him feel small and insignificant, the grandeur of all the worlds (and spaces between) that his ancestors have seen and he remembers. NOT some fleeting prescient perception of some disembodied superbrain of a fucking butt-ugly midget woman flitting from one dimension to another. (Because AGAIN we're talking OM here, not prescience!)

We already know that Kevin J. Anderson hasn't the intellectual honesty or personal integrity or strength of character to admit when he has made a mistake or intentionally changed something. (No, he blames Frank Herbert or another, fictional writer, Irulan Corrino.) Let's see how Spice Grandson faces this gom jabbar.
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Post by chanilover »

He'll pretend he didn't want to respond to you because you were rude and hurt his feelings. :lol: They don't have to put up with such things at his My Little Cymekpony site.
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Post by Secher_Nbiw »

Where the fuck have these morons got the idea that Alien roads would describe anything to do with thinking machine cities? since when were the thinking machines aliens???

That description sounds more like memories of when mankind first left earthe and began to see the rest of the universe more than anything else.

Shut up Byron!
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Post by SandChigger »

:lol:

The war cry of the Jihad has been decided....
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Post by Lundse »

Ahh... the 'mote-argument'.

Because Leto II thought of himself as a 'mote' in a moment where he waxed poetic, he must therefore:

A - Know that there exists entities more powerful than themselves.
B - Such entities must necessarily be a hyperpowered female midget with magical powers and a machine empire which surrounds the galaxy.

I think this is the point in a conversation where I begin to ask how old people are, just to know if I should expend energy on it.


And as usual, I will remain too diplomatic to heap abuse on Byron...
But for anyone defending 'reasoning' as twisted and willfully stupid as the above:

Shut the fuck up!
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Post by Seraphan »

Oh my! Wait until Kevy and the other guy attempt to retcon this bullshit in Leto of Dune. It will bring to them a fucking nuclear holocaust :twisted:
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Post by Serkanner »

Byron ... shut the fuck up! You don't have the brains to understand TrueDune.
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Post by SandRider »

today:
Bel Moulay wrote:It could even be a Tleilaxu city road. Nobody has any ancestrial memories of theirs since they've always kept it to themselves without ever partaking in breeding with a powindah.
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Post by Serkanner »

Baraka Bryan wrote:
Serkanner wrote:Byron ... shut the fuck up! You don't have the brains to understand TrueDune.
lol at first i read that as Bryan... and was like WTF did I do!
Oops. Glad you found out before declaring Kanly.
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Post by Freakzilla »

This all depends on who wrote God Emperor of Dune, in thier world.

Maybe it was written by Duncan Idaho or even Norma.

:P
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Post by GamePlayer »

I heard it was some guy from Salusa Secundus. Got life, was sent to the prison planet, took some remedial courses and wrote book. Became a Best seller, I hear :)
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Post by Seraphan »

GamePlayer wrote:I heard it was some guy from Salusa Secundus. Got life, was sent to the prison planet, took some remedial courses and wrote book. Became a Best seller, I hear :)
Yeah, wasnt he hiking all the time?
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Post by SandRider »

Over There >> For Lovers of both the Classic Dune AND the Prequels » God Emperor of Dune (Let's Review) // today
katee84 wrote:
in God-Emperor of Dune, Frank Herbert wrote:“Yes, Lord.” Moneo was abashed, yet still curious. And he knew that the God Emperor sometimes waxed loquacious after the death of a Duncan.
“You must have seen many rebellions, Lord.”

Involuntarily, Leto’s thoughts sank into the memories aroused by these words.

“Ahhh, Moneo,” he muttered. “My travels in the ancestral mazes have memorized uncounted places and events which I never desire to see repeated.”

“I can imagine your inward travels, Lord.”

“No, you cannot. I have seen peoples and planets in such numbers that they lose meaning even in imagination. Ohhh, the landscapes I have passed. The calligraphy of alien roads glimpsed from space and imprinted upon my innermost sight. The eroded sculpture of canyons and cliffs and galaxies has imprinted upon me the certain knowledge that I am a mote.”

“Not you, Lord. Certainly not you.”

“Less than a mote! I have seen people and their fruitless societies in such repetitive posturings that their nonsense fills me with boredom, do you hear?”
Over a year ago, on November 18th, Bryon started this thread with the following post:
boardadmin wrote:To back up what Brian and Kevin are writing about, here are some words from God Emperor of Dune which could help clarify the possibility of a more powerful entity and an alien presence:

"I have seen peoples and planets in such numbers that they lose meaning even in imagination. Ohhh, the landscapes I have passed. The calligraphy of alien roads glimpsed from space and imprinted upon my innermost sight. The eroded sculpture of canyons and cliffs and galaxies has imprinted upon me the certain knowledge that I am a mote."
Freakzilla refuted this post with a dictionary definition of "alien", saying the passage quoted must be taken in context; Freakzilla posted the entire exchange between Leto & Moneo, and ended his post with:
Freakzilla wrote:"Using this to back up aliens and goddesses is quite a stretch, IMO."
To which Byron responded:
boardadmin wrote:I don't think it's a stretch for one simple reason: Frank could've used any word other than "alien" to describe these other worlds, but he chose that one. Frank was nothing if not subtle in dropping hints. He could've said "inhabited" or "populated" but he chose "alien." The "mote" comment kind of shows that Leto understands his place in the wider universe. He's just a small
particle within its machinations (i.e., there are other, more powerful, forces out there ...and he knows it).
Later, this exchange:
Omphalos wrote:
boardadmin wrote:
Omphalos wrote:But it sounds to me that you are softening us up for an alien race to appear in Paul of Dune. Is that what you are doing Because I certainly don't recall them ever really going "there" to date.
I'm not softening you for anything.
Why bring it up now then, in the context of "what Brian and Kevin are writing about?" I dont recall them dealing with an alien presence before, so it only stands to reason that they will be writing about it in the new books. Am I missing something? That is what you said, isnt it?
Byron never responded to this. The thread then swerved into discussion of the Butlerian Jihad, until page 21, December 13th, 2008 :
Bel Moulay wrote:I saw someone mention a quote from Leto II about seeing distant roads and cities that were alien to him. Could it possibly be the organized city grids of the machine cities? I mean they would be alien to him considering it's impossible to store any ancestrial memories from machines for so many obvious reasons. What if the golden path was to strengthen mankind against it's ancient arch-nemesis who have been rapidly growing in the farthest reaches of the universe. Not only could Leto II wanted to strengthen the human race but also multiply their numbers for the ultimate battle ahead.
boardadmin wrote:Lots of fan speculation on that one. Some say it was "alien" to Leto II only, not
specifically an alien society (i.e., the machine society). Others say since Leto II was heavily prescient, not much could be hidden from him, so there is a high probability that this could be a machine city similar to what Brian and Kevin have written about.
Others say since Leto II was heavily prescient ....
From the text, it is clear that Leto was speaking from Other Memory; the Past then, and not the Future.

a high probability that this could be a machine city similar to what Brian and Kevin have written about...
How could a "machine city", if it is supposed to exist, be considered by Leto to be "alien" ? Leto's Other Memory extended well before the Butlerian Jihad; therefore (allowing for a "machine empire") Leto would have recongized these "cities", past or future, and not labelled them "alien".

The simplest and most obvious interpretation of "calligraphy of alien roads glimpsed from space" is foreign, exotic, unexplored or untravelled space, seen in the far distance and unreachable by Leto's ancestors.

Kevin may resolve all this in Leto of Dune however he pleases to fit into the story he has told thus far. He may tell us Children of Dune was actually written by Harq Al-ada and God-Emperor of Dune by Gaus Andaud, in the way Dune and Dune Messiah are actually the words of Irulan. However he chooses to reconcile his story with the original is his business, but there is no reason for fans to twist Frank Herbert's words or ideas into things they did not say or mean.
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Post by SandRider »

Over There >>» For Lovers of both the Classic Dune AND the Prequels » God Emperor of Dune (Let's Review) // just now

katee84 wrote:
arnoldo wrote:Considering that the Butlerian Jihad was defined as the following:
JIHAD, BUTLERIAN: (see also Great Revolt) -- the crusade against computers, thinking machines, and conscious robots begun in 201 B.G. and concluded in 108 B.G. Its chief commandment remains in the O.C. Bible as "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind."

Then it’s possible that preparations were implemented in the event that AI/”other intelligence” ever became a threat as indicated in the following passage:
They were undoubtedly sincere in subscribing to the argument
that nuclear weapons were a reserve held for one purpose: defense of humankind should a threatening "other intelligence" ever be encountered.
~CoD
Why do you find it so necessary to derail a topic ? Having read through this entire thread several times, I've noticed you have a habit of that. You added nothing to this discussion, being the misinterpretation of Leto's statement of "alien roads".

I am aware of the definition of the Butlerian Jihad you quoted.
I am aware of the Great Convention.

Are you intentionally trying to draw attention away from the topic at hand, or is it some kind of compulsion to post something, anything, even if it has no bearing on the discussion ? Are you hoping to draw me into some kind of pointless flame war, and divert this topic for another year and 21 pages ?
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Post by A Thing of Eternity »

Good to see he's just as off topic as he's always been.
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Post by SandChigger »

This is something we all learned the hard way:

arnoldo is a fucking troll. IGNORE HIM. DON'T ENGAGE HIM, DON'T ANSWER HIM, DON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE HIS EXISTENCE.

Stick to the topic. Byron has to admit he was wrong.

Deleting these newest posts will be a satisfactory admission. :lol:
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