Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

What is "The Golden Path"?

No, really. Tell me... I would like to hear it in your words.

Yeah, I know:

Leto II's plan for the survival of mankind

I mean, I would like to hear your thoughts about it.
I'll start off...
An oracle is shielded from an oracle- something like that, right? Was it Leto's plan to populate the universe with people like himself? I'll stop right there.

JustSomeGuy wrote:What is "The Golden Path"?

Did you read the books?

Freakzilla wrote:Did you read the books?

Let me try again...

No, really. Tell me... I would like to hear it in your words.

Not just "Leto II's plan for the survival of mankind," but an explanation of that plan.

An oracle is shielded from an oracle- something like that, right? Was it Leto's plan to populate the universe with people like himself?

The Golden Path still allows for the possibility of human extinction, right?

JustSomeGuy wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:Did you read the books?

Let me try again...

But what are you trying to do, that's the 10 grand question now isn't it ?

I understand Golden Path as Leto's plan to change humanity (not only its survival).
In other words, Leto tried to change the collective mindset of humanity, to replace old with new.
Reading GEoD, I had the impression that Leto's vision of humanity is that it remained petrified in patterns that eventually would lead to extinction.
Leto wanted to change this, to break patterns. It took over 3500 years to do this.

It seems to me that "The Golden Path" is one which leads out into the unknown, where everything is possible. A Golden Path for everyone.

It helps if you don't actually think of it as a path.

Leto's enforced tranquility and leading by bad example taught humanity to be careful about their heros and what it is they actually want.
By denying manking space travel Leto gave man a yearning to explore.
Encouraging the development of the INM gave man the ability to do so.
Breeding for the Siona gene and promoting no-field tech enabled them to do so without leaving a trace.

Thus, all humanity can't be extinguished by a single threat nor influenced by a powerful prescient.

Freakzilla wrote:It helps if you don't actually think of it as a path.

That's why I wrote "The Golden Path."
I agree with everything you had to say. I don't really have anything to add. Man, after all these years I still wonder what "Dune 7" would have been like! *sigh*

Secher might better be thought of as "plan" or "stratagem". "Path" seems to confuse people too much...

Freakzilla wrote:It helps if you don't actually think of it as a path.

Leto's enforced tranquility and leading by bad example taught humanity to be careful about their heros and what it is they actually want.
By denying manking space travel Leto gave man a yearning to explore.
Encouraging the development of the INM gave man the ability to do so.
Breeding for the Siona gene and promoting no-field tech enabled them to do so without leaving a trace.

Thus, all humanity can't be extinguished by a single threat nor influenced by a powerful prescient.

Hi to all of you! Leto said what he wanted most was a universe of surprises. That's what I think of when I think of the Golden Path. He sees that he can be the savior of humanity, and becomes inhuman for that to occur, his price to pay for the survival of the race in a universe of surprises.

Miles Teg wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:It helps if you don't actually think of it as a path.

Leto's enforced tranquility and leading by bad example taught humanity to be careful about their heros and what it is they actually want.
By denying manking space travel Leto gave man a yearning to explore.
Encouraging the development of the INM gave man the ability to do so.
Breeding for the Siona gene and promoting no-field tech enabled them to do so without leaving a trace.

Thus, all humanity can't be extinguished by a single threat nor influenced by a powerful prescient.

Hi to all of you! Leto said what he wanted most was a universe of surprises. That's what I think of when I think of the Golden Path. He sees that he can be the savior of humanity, and becomes inhuman for that to occur, his price to pay for the survival of the race in a universe of surprises.

I thought his desire for a universe of surprises was a reference to prescience.

Leto loved surprises, even nasty ones.

Yes I agree, something specific you're pointing to?

.............................................I assure you that the ability to view our
futures can become a bore. Even to be thought of as a god, as I certainly was,
can become ultimately boring. It has occurred to me more than once that holy
boredom is good and sufficient reason for the invention of free will.
-Inscription on the storehouse at bar-es-Balat

I agree with him, I can't think of anything more boring than to know how things turn out. This is what The Golden Path prevents for Leto and everyone else, plodding into a boring, already read the book future.

It has occurred to me more than once that holy
boredom is good and sufficient reason for the invention of free will.

FH is confronting the dilemma of free will and predestination, and as long as any one mind holds sway over the future, including his, humanity is doomed.

Although it should be said that free will and predestination are not mutually exclusive.

inhuien wrote:Although it should be said that free will and predestination are not mutually exclusive.

I know a lot of people who believe that, but I don't think FH is one of them. The Sisters goaded The Whores into burning Dune to a cinder. They didn't want The Tyrant's influence on the future around.

Miles Teg wrote:

inhuien wrote:Although it should be said that free will and predestination are not mutually exclusive.

I know a lot of people who believe that, but I don't think FH is one of them. The Sisters goaded The Whores into burning Dune to a cinder. They didn't want The Tyrant's influence on the future around.

Or maybe they just wanted the sources of spice destroyed so they'd be the only one once they figured out they spice cycle or made Scytale crack.

I think more to the point, Leto II's philosphy was "as long as you hate me, you will never want someone like me again."

I think it's particularly important to consider today's political climate. What I mean to say is, we had a leader four years ago we hated and we knew(with the economy like it was and is now) we didn't want someone like him again, yet here we are, still in the same boat with another leader with near total control and things aren't looking much better. But once Leto is gone, mankind can make up it's own mind and determine where they want to go(the whole universe full of surprises idea).

Essentially, prescience and predetermination are bonds that he is trying to free us from, along with a lone powerful leader. By enslaving us all planet-side and not being able to travel space, he is teaching humanity a harsh lesson about following a charismatic leader. It's a two-fold lesson.

We still have one we hate, it's just the other half of the country doing the hating now.

Freakzilla wrote:We still have one we hate, it's just the other half of the country doing the hating now.

That's what I meant.