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how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 16 Jan 2013 03:42
by distrans
without leto knowing?

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 16 Jan 2013 07:39
by Freakzilla
It was hidden inside a no-field.

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 17 Jan 2013 00:27
by distrans
sure it was,
while they cooked up malkys opposite
but that doesnt explain the facilities existance

howd the BT get persuaded to ship the ixians a tank and leto doesnt know?

howd the ixian ship a no room back and forth to whereever they picked one up?

his own records are printing away in a no room already
you think the ixian could have every produced such an artifact without letos manipulation?

i think all his talk about wonder at noree's origins was just game playing

he might as well have ordered here at a drive through

she was his creation first and foremost

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 17 Jan 2013 06:07
by Freakzilla
I don't think she was his creation but it is certainly a possibility that he knew about it.

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 25 Jan 2013 16:13
by distrans
id say that allowing the creation of a space outside his preceptions
was more than just condolence of what occured there

it was the active encouragement of it

before you can build a house
you have to clear the land
drag in cement
and cords of wood
before it ever gets a thermostat and the hvac starts working

he had to have been in on it
frank glossed over this
let leto pretend he was shocked

i dont by it

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 26 Jan 2013 08:03
by Freakzilla
He was in on it and encouraging it. Did you read GEoD?

Well, maybe not in on it, but he knew about it or at least suspected and didn't stop it.

I would take the God Emperor not sending a swarm of Fish Speakers to dash my evil plans as encouragement.

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 26 Jan 2013 08:17
by inhuien
Was there not a statement akin to knowing something is there by the absence of perception.

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 26 Jan 2013 10:09
by distrans
he said he knows when something disappears from his perception.

this begs the questions of what look means,
there isnt time enough in the day for the deity to follow everyones actions

whats the filter or process of revelant things getting through?

franks writes the actions of prescience and accessing other memories as "going looking"

he pairs them

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 26 Jan 2013 10:12
by Serkanner
"They are not certain. Tleilaxu were not permitted to witness. However, they did
observe that Malky entered this . . . ahhh, chamber and that he emerged later
with an infant."
"Yes! I know!"
"You do?" Moneo was puzzled.
"By inference. And all of this happened some twenty-six years ago?"
"That is correct, Lord."
"They identify the infant as Hwi Noree?"

"I know that. The lxians do not recognize that machine makers always run the
risk of becoming totally machine. This is ultimate sterility. Machines always
fail . . . given time. And when these machines failed there would be nothing
left, no life at all."

"Sometimes I think they are mad," she said.

"Anteac's opinion. That is the immediate problem. The lxians are now engaged in
an endeavor which they are concealing."

"Even from you?"

"Even from me. I am sending the Reverend Mother Anteac to investigate for me. To
help her, I want you to tell her everything you can about the place where you
spent your childhood. Omit no detail, no matter how small. Anteac will help you
remember. We want every sound, every smell, the shapes and names of visitors,
the colors and even the tinglings of your skin. The slightest thing may be

"You think it is the place of concealment?"

"I know it is."

"And you think they are making this weapon in. . ."

"No, but this will be our excuse for investigating the place where you were

----- Leto knew

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 26 Jan 2013 10:21
by distrans
not permitted?
where do you get that?

obnviously as you point out, leto could see these things. the question is weather or not he observed them as they transpired; rather than looked back on their occurance in the past.

what filters gods perception of reality here and now?

id think he would vapor lock on all the stimulous

but then again, im not god

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 26 Jan 2013 11:34
by Freakzilla
That was the real test for the KH. Having all that information and remaining sane.

As the two men departed, Leto threw himself onto his back, feeling the cold
cot against his spine. Movement sent his head spinning over the edge of his
spice-burdened consciousness. In that instant he saw the entire planet -- every
village, every town, every city, the desert places and the planted places. All
of the shapes which smashed against his vision bore intimate relationships to a
mixture of elements within themselves and without. He saw the structures of
Imperial society reflected in physical structures of its planets and their
communities. Like a gigantic unfolding within him, he saw this revelation for
what it must be: a window into the society's invisible parts. Seeing this, Leto
realized that every system had such a window. Even the system of himself and his
universe. He began peering into windows, a cosmic voyeur.
This was what his grandmother and the Sisterhood sought! He knew it. His
awareness flowed on a new, higher level. He felt the past carried in his cells,
in his memories, in the archetypes which haunted his assumptions, in the myths
which hemmed him, in his languages and their prehistoric detritus. It was all of
the shapes out of his human and nonhuman past, all of the lives which he now
commanded, all integrated in him at last. And he felt himself as a thing caught
up in the ebb and flow of nucleotides. Against the backdrop of infinity he was a
protozoan creature in which birth and death were virtually simultaneous, but he
was both infinite and protozoan, a creature of molecular memories.
We humans are a form of colony organism! he thought.

~Children of Dune

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 26 Jan 2013 14:50
by distrans
but the questions remains,
that passage pertains to a specific incidence of spice dosing forced on him...
a singular event

not where he choose to remain thereafter

frank wrote leto as sympathetic
outside dives into special abilities leto was just like everyone else
an esential to remaining human

can you find a passage of text where
leto makes mention of knowing something after it had occurred
and chids himself for not knowing it when it actually did occur?

Re: how did the ixians get a axlotl tank

Posted: 26 Jan 2013 17:35
by Freakzilla
The vision absorbed him. It evolved into a stereologic memory which
separated past and present, future and present, future and past. Each separation
mingled into a trinocular focus which he sensed as the multidimensional relief
map of his own future existence.
He thought: Time is a measure of space, just as a range finder is a measure
of space, but measuring locks us into the place we measure.
He sensed the trance deepening. It came as an amplification of internal
consciousness which his self-identity soaked up and through which he felt
himself changing. It was living Time and he could not arrest an instant of it.
Memory fragments, future and past, deluged him. But they existed as montage-inmotion.
Their relationships underwent a constant dance. His memory was a lens,
an illuminating searchlight which picked out fragments, isolating them, but
forever failing to stop the ceaseless motion and modification which surged into
his view.

~Children of Dune