The Dark Knight

Post by **Omphalos** » 24 Jul 2008 00:51

HoosierDaddy wrote:OK, for a different perspective, how about the original Batman and Robin being homosexual?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman

There has been some controversy over various sexual interpretations made regarding the content of Batman comics. Homosexual interpretations have been part of the academic study of Batman since psychologist Fredric Wertham asserted in Seduction of the Innocent that "Batman stories are psychologically homosexual". He claimed, "The Batman type of story may stimulate children to homosexual fantasies, of the nature of which they may be unconscious". Wertham wrote, "Only someone ignorant of the fundamentals of psychiatry and of the psychopathology of sex can fail to realize a subtle atmosphere of homoeroticism which pervades the adventures of the mature 'Batman' and his young friend 'Robin'".[111]

Andy Medhurst wrote in his essay "Batman, Deviance, and Camp" that Batman is interesting to gay audiences because "he was one of the first fictional characters to be attacked on the grounds of his presumed homosexuality," "the 1960s TV series remains a touchstone of camp," and "[he] merits analysis as a notably successful construction of masculinity."[112]

Creators associated with the character have expressed their own opinions. Writer Alan Grant has stated, "The Batman I wrote for 13 years isn't gay. Denny O'Neil's Batman, Marv Wolfman's Batman, everybody's Batman all the way back to Bob Kane... none of them wrote him as a gay character. Only Joel Schumacher might have had an opposing view". Writer Devin Grayson has commented, "It depends who you ask, doesn't it? Since you're asking me, I'll say no, I don't think he is ... I certainly understand the gay readings, though".[113] While Frank Miller has described the relationship between Batman and the Joker as a "homophobic nightmare",[114] he views the character as sublimating his sexual urges into crime fighting, concluding, "He'd be much healthier if he were gay".[115] Burt Ward has also remarked upon this interpretation in his autobiography Boy Wonder: My Life in Tights, noting the relationship could be interpreted as a sexual one, with the show's double entendres and lavish camp also possibly offering ambiguous interpretation.[116]

Some continue to play off the homosexual interpretations of Batman. One notable example occurred in 2000, when DC Comics refused to allow permission for the reprinting of four panels (from Batman #79, 92, 105 and 139) to illustrate Christopher York's paper All in the Family: Homophobia and Batman Comics in the 1950s.[117] Another happened in the summer of 2005, when painter Mark Chamberlain displayed a number of watercolors depicting both Batman and Robin in suggestive and sexually explicit poses.[118] DC threatened both artist and the Kathleen Cullen Fine Arts gallery with legal action if they did not cease selling the works and demanded all remaining art, as well as any profits derived from them.[119]

I cannot think of any comic book characters that are not hypersexualized. With comics you not only get hetero and homosexual teasing, you also get beastiality, with all the furries they use in comics. This is nothing new, and nothing limited to Batman and the Boy Wonder.

Post by **Omphalos** » 24 Jul 2008 00:58

Omphalos wrote:
orald wrote:Are we talking about the same chick, Omph?

That picture is probably old and she's way done up. That is not what she looks like. But yes, she is skinny and she can look good. With a team of specialists, an excellent lighting guy and some vaseline on the lens.

She is in her mid-20's and she looks like an old lady.

http://www.idontlikeyouinthatway.com/20 ... -idea.html

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 24 Jul 2008 10:07

I liked Maggie in this sequel and especially her performance. I'm not a huge fan and I find her rather average looking, but she's better than Katie Holmes as a performer. Gyllenhaal can at least act and play intelligent. Holmes can't play intelligent, especially not as the sacrifice on the altar to Tom Cruise

Tyrant · Post by **Tyrant** » 24 Jul 2008 16:39

GamePlayer wrote:she's better than Katie Holmes as a performer. Holmes can't play intelligent, especially not as the sacrifice on the altar to Tom Cruise

you couldnt be more wrong...watch batman begins...katie holmes is a much better actress...a thousand times better...your just playerhatin her cause of tom cruise...how can u let mainstream media affect your ability to judge actors .... rachel dawes in batman begins is a damn good character and a KEY character to the development of batman...i liked the character...in the dark knight she's just a dumb bitch..and not even herself..that was not rachel dawes...they shouldve done the right thing and left her out of teh movie completely...

SPOILER ALERT

well at least she dies..ALMOST makes her apperance in the movie worth it ...almost

Nekhrun · Post by **Nekhrun** » 24 Jul 2008 17:07

I'll throw my opinion in. I hate Katie Holmes as an actress and am glad she was replaced. Mags was far better. Let Katie go off and do her thing. She's not even an actress, she just plays Katie Holmes (and that poorly).

Besides, being the comic book purist I am, I hate that there is even a Rachel Dawes character playing any kind of role in the development of the Batman.

Spicelon · Post by **Spicelon** » 24 Jul 2008 18:09

Gyllenhal (sp?) is no babe, but did the role better than Holmes.

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » 24 Jul 2008 20:26

Tyrant wrote:rachel dawes in batman begins is a damn good character and a KEY character to the development of batman...

I'm pretty sure Batman's developed pretty well without a childhood love interest in most of the incarnations.

Besides, what character development of Batman? It's been a while since I've seen Batman Begins, but I know in the Dark Knight he was barely considered, much less developed. Maybe the first one was better. It's all foggy in my brain.

Tyrant · Post by **Tyrant** » 24 Jul 2008 21:36

Phaedrus wrote:
Tyrant wrote:rachel dawes in batman begins is a damn good character and a KEY character to the development of batman...
I'm pretty sure Batman's developed pretty well without a childhood love interest in most of the incarnations.

Besides, what character development of Batman? It's been a while since I've seen Batman Begins, but I know in the Dark Knight he was barely considered, much less developed. Maybe the first one was better. It's all foggy in my brain.

its the scene in the car where he pulls out the gun and tells her he wanted to kill Joe Chill....she puts him in his place...and basically triggered his decision to face Falcone and (with the help of carmine falcone) to go underground and join the criminal underworld to help him learn how to fight them .....

and how can u say she was a better Rachel Dawes....she was nothing like Rachel Dawes..nothing at all ... she irked me the whole film...every scene she was in i just wanted to blow my brains out ...how can u say she was better at playing a character she was nothing like .... since when did Rachel Dawes turn into a dumb bitch..who cares more about love interests than her job.... she must've been on her scripted period or something.... it was probably some of the worst acting i've EVER seen....and i saw "raising jeffrey dahmer"

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » 24 Jul 2008 22:16

It's hard to tell what Rachel Dawes is like. Since, you know, she's been in two movies in all of Batman history so far. Little depth in the character. She felt more like a plot device than, you know, an actual person.

I don't remember the first movie that well, so I'm not certain which actress did a better job. But since Katie Holmes has always been a really bad actress, I'm pretty sure she was worse.

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 24 Jul 2008 22:33

Tyrant wrote:you couldnt be more wrong...

You're probably right; Katie Holmes shouldn't have even been in Batman Begins

Seriously, I couldn't give a crap whether Katie Holmes is dating Tom Cruise or Hilary Clinton, but Cruise is simply much more entertaining as a scapegoat. Oh alright, it would be more entertaining if Cruise just came out already and Katie was seeing Hilary, but such is the bore of reality.

As for Hollywood actresses, the only good ones are either average looking or European, apparently the only place on Earth that can breed smoking hot women who can actually act.

Btw, wasn't that magic pen scene just so dope?

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 25 Jul 2008 01:37

GamePlayer wrote:Katie Holmes is dating ... Hilary Clinton

I knew that.

I mean, you just look at her, and you know.

She's got "'Bian" written all over her.

Yummy.

Tyrant · Post by **Tyrant** » 25 Jul 2008 06:50

GamePlayer wrote:Btw, wasn't that magic pen scene just so dope?

lol..probably the funniest scene in the movie