Greed as a motivational aspect could be viewed as beneficial but I don't think it is a Good thing.
Remember you are not what you own.
Global Economic Crisis: Should I be afraid?
Moderators: ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Omphalos, Freakzilla
-
anamisbored
collapse of the Monetarist Society-Shaykh Dr.Abdalqadir a
In Sura Ta Ha (20:128) The Qur’an speaks clearly. Allah asks:
Are they not guided
by the many generations We have destroyed before them,
among whose dwelling places they walk about?
There are Signs in that for people of sound intellect.
What, firstly, is the venous system of the present world society? The life-blood which activates every organ, limb and sinew of human life on our planet is of course, money. Not real-wealth, not commodities, not minerals and certainly not oil and gas. The money system is not specie, it is neither coin, nor bonds, nor bank-notes. It is pure number. Yet the numbers have been assigned to things. It is the connectedness of number to things that sustains that system which finally is showing itself as unsustainable.
In order that this money system continue to function, it follows from this, the relational pattern of number to thing must be in place.
Now, right away, we discover the hidden protocol on which that relational connection, that necessary relational connection, is dependent for its existence.
At the binding core of the world money system is the human creature, for it is his acceptance of the dynamic which agrees that between thing and number is a link which in turn authorises or licenses the whole global string of activities which propel the movement of things by the mutually agreed instrument of a number sequence unlocking itself from thing to person and from person to thing.
Thus the whole sequence is itself dependent on the activating person. For the monetary system of the current society to function – an accepting individual is necessary.
Now, in order to gain the acquiescence of the person in the sequence of events we have indicated, that person has to have accepted that both the specifics and their activation are real and have meaning. It must, in short, make sense – be reasonable.
The person concerned can be motivated to participate in the money process in two possible modes:
1] He is convinced by verification that:
a) The numbers are real, that is, have value intrinsically, that is, in themselves, prior to the money-thing propulsion.
b) The thing is real, existent, present in a place.
c) That the activating current that ‘assigns’ connection from number to thing is real, makes sense, and has social confirmation.
2] He is compelled by the compulsion that obliges its acceptance:
a) Because of his prior role in the money-thing process which entraps him into going along with the method.
b) Because of an undifferentiated anxiety about both money and thing, as well as any possible linkage.
c) While knowing the sequence is false, he feels helpless to dismantle it.
d) He knows it is unreal and so false, and at the same time continues to practise it.
In the first case it is both known and demonstrable that the number has no intrinsic value and no existence except as abstract. It is also known that things exist in themselves. What cannot be proved is that the dynamic linking of number to thing is real in itself. It takes on existence by the evocation of it by a person who in turn must convince another that the pulsating link has an actual if unprovable reality. Therefore the whole sequence is determined by the convinced individual and by necessary extension a counterpart individual.
Nevertheless since the accepting individual cannot exist in reason, the individual, the activator of the system has to be in the second case: that means
a) compelled
b) in anxiety
c) nihilistic
d) psychotic.
Either one or all of the first three or the last, simply, or as a combination of the first three in crisis.
If man himself is the cause and the effect that energises the present disastrous world system, then man must be diagnosed, his sickness identified and his cure enacted.
In one of the most important medical schemas of our time there is a model of disease that is not reliant uniquely on specifying the viral agent itself, but rather proposes a more complex view that takes into account the social environment, the civic order and then the person as part of that total reality. In an epidemic event, the illness itself is seen not as a virus first, but as a diseased zone. The disease itself is defined as “miasma”. The polluted earth, the poisoned sea, the mineral depleted vegetables, the hormone-pumped meat, the disappearing species, the toxic air – all that is not merely the ambient setting of disease but the disease itself. Put simply, but differently from the accepted model, the sequence tuberculosis virus kills among the overcrowded poor, but penicillin cures it, is replaced by the view – industrial squalor flowers into a lung-destroying entity, which can be nursed on the mountain clinic. The viral view far from eliminating the illness has produced a now resistant super-bug, again without a cure.
The miasma of the current global disease has in it not only the imbalance of mass poverty and climactic disorder but a set of invented social mores that have smashed the model of man’s upbringing in a family nexus, abolishing marriage and casting the individual adrift without any intimate or civic ties. No family. No clan. No native land. No religion.
The miasma of the modern swamp called ‘the world community’ is made more obscure by two layers of patterning. The first is the structuralism of the whole social apparatus. Education is monitored by the State. Policing is outside the command of man, hidden by legal and government edicts. The structure of governance itself, being utterly divorced from the numbers-linked-thing system, which is the only empowered government that exists, is a kind of civic-centre theatre unable to dismantle the money-linked-thing monetarism of power.
The second is the imposed necessity of this individual man to accept that the money system a) is real and b) is actually working.
To prevent man from awakening before the system collapses, and before he can propose rescue, he finds himself re-defined as mass-man, and this is not just a communist phenomenon as in North Korea but it is essential to the new world system of democracy, and it manifests in Olympic Games, World Cup Sports Events, mass rock concerts and marathon runs.
The world miasma has seen and continues to see the extinction of specific species. In other words the genetic pattern of a species simply cannot survive the miasmic swamping which prevents that creature being precisely that creature. Only zoos are keeping alive some species just as the alpine sanatorium kept alive the dying tubercular patient. In the same way man is disappearing. Man, as understood by Aeschylus, Shakespeare and Ibsen may soon be gone.
In Surat al-Anbiya (21:44-45) Allah the Exalted declares:
No indeed! We have given these people enjoyment,
as We did their fathers,
until life seemed long and good to them.
Do they not see how We come to the land
eroding it from its extremities?
Or are they the victors?
Say: ‘I can only warn you through the Revelation.’
But the deaf cannot hear the call when they are warned.
The eroding of the coastlines is one of the effects of our analysed miasma. It is one of the indications of how the present world sickness is itself a defiance of the Divine Creator, may He be exalted, and the natural laws on which He has set up existence.
Certainly the present world system has given a smaller and smaller minority a life which has “seemed long and good to them.” Yet men today live inside a distorting psychosis.
The psychosis of numbers-wealth. This is the state of the one who thinks modern money exists. So, firstly, the need to grasp the nature of money, the non-existent nature of ‘money’ itself. Let us examine the structuration of currency.
The widow’s mite. The cent and the penny. Thus it begins with the poor. The decimal foundation of paper money. From 100 coins we reach a One-Something paper note. From there the ‘notes’ soon spiral from hundreds to thousands. As the system goes into action it begins to scoop up the world’s intrinsic value commodities, land and minerals. In order to acquire property and goods to the maximum, where once a hundred were needed, it then becomes a thousand. In our own lifetime a rich man was called a millionaire. Now he is a billionaire. National debts which were calculated in billions are now counted in trillions. The joked-of zillions are fast becoming the new reality.
This proliferation of money has three stages. A ‘local’ or national currency of paper-notes. They in turn are graded into tradable and non-tradable. The tradable can be used in the ‘world-market’ while the latter are blocked from any but local usage and exchange. This is the first stage. A new nation, like Croatia, is ‘granted’ its own currency.
The second stage is the arena in which the acquired wealth gained by the ‘money’ is so successful that the small base of a currency, merely national, is seen as hindering wealth expansion. Trading zones are united, so that what once were nations become trading-blocks with one new currency covering that of the new grouping. The model was the European Community which demanded the Euro. The similar models can be observed in South-East Asia and South America. Logic insists that the new syncretic “communities” merge finally into “the International Community”, already politically prepared for it, and named in media on a daily basis so that people believe it too exists.
The third stage is the acceptance of an anti-money. Since the money itself is non-existent it is only logical (if irrational!) that alongside money should exist an openly admitted anti-money. This in turn will provide a ‘proof’ that the primary money system is real by contrast with anti-money. Anti-money is a non-money system that is then given parity with “real” money. This non-money is debt. It then follows that debt can be bought and sold like “real” money.
It is not accidental that the two great financial institutions that are based on this anti-money, debt, have been given the names of a man and a woman. The ignorant masses are told that this non-money is in the hands of two nice homely peasants, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, somehow it is reassuring. The actual situation that now stands revealed is that should these two banking institutions crash, so enlaced are they with the ‘real’ money that the whole system itself would come crashing down. The masses have been told that all is well – the national government has “stepped in” to rescue everyone. This in turn is a further lie which reveals where power truly lies. The national money is in fact a private conglomerate of super-banks deceptively named “The Fed”.
To return to the legendary ‘currency’ – dollars, pounds, roubles, euros and so on.
From the widow’s cent to the dollar to the stocks and bonds and loans and debts and traded debt, at any stage it can clearly be demonstrated to be illusory. The total system is in constant expansion. Not only does it expand by its evolving instruments of exchange but it expands by an even further insanity. The money is false. It seems real as it is other than the admittedly false anti-money, debt. If the ignorant masses can buy all this why stop there? There is another crop of wealth to be harvested. Let us trade in what may happen as we have traded in what is happening. Let the monetarists trade on the future market, or as they call it, the futures market, to give it reality, as if each thing traded has its own reality.
A final word on the instrument of exchange, ‘money’.
It should be borne in mind that for over half a century the banking industry has gone to enormous trouble to promote the idea that robbing a bank was a way to acquire immediate wealth. A whole book could be written on the banking industry (industry?) and its exploitation of the movie industry helping it to advance a mythic conviction that banks were repositories of wealth. In film after film they have granted the movies access to great fortress-like banks which in turn become the arena for the bank-raid. The message is that the bank is the holder of vast wealth and it is unreachable.
The truth is that it is empty. The billions are not in the vaults. Just as when the French Revolutionaries broke into the Bastille to free its prisoners, they discovered only a handful, so today the bank raider will find only a handful of deposit boxes with some jewellery and bonds. The Bastille was the symbolic power institution of a political power system, so today the Bank is the symbolic power institution of an economic power system.
Where has all the money gone? What is in the till and in the pocket and under the bed and in the bank is simply loose change. Yet the secret of the financial system is beginning to leak out as its institutions, one by one, are going to the wall.
“In today’s trading on the New York Stock Exchange in one hour ten billion dollars were wiped off share prices.”
Where did they go? Who took them? Why were they handed over? Now what are they going to do?
Look at the reality of money.
France’s Societé Generale have posted a 7.1 billion quarterly loss. One trader alone, Jerome Kerviel, is accused of “losing” 4.9 billion. A very intelligent and poised banker, he has declared “I will not be the scapegoat!”
Lehman posted a 3.9 billion loss for the third quarter. Lehman plan to spin off about $30 billion of problematic assets into a separate company – the “bad” bank which would be owned by Lehman shareholders alongside their “good” bank.
Fannie Mae posted a quarterly loss of $2.3 billion. As a result of its having no prospect of recovery, it has been ‘nationalised’. This was the second intervention, the first being the rescue of Bear Stearns investment bank. Freddie Mac in turn posted a quarterly loss of $2 billion, and has gone the way of Fannie Mae into State take-over.
Freddie Mac with celebrities like Magic Johnson runs a “Hoops for the Homeless” basketball tournament to raise charity for the homeless. It is heartening to know!
So where have all the billions gone? In the words of Shakespeare: “Nothing will come to nothing.”
Just before the second Iraq War, Dr Shalabi, fascinated by the work of Hajj ‘Umar Vadillo in the matter of the gold Islamic Dinar, invited him to meet and explain his position. They met at the headquarters of Dr Shalabi’s credit card operation which covered the whole of the Middle East. He confirmed that Hajj ‘Umar’s analysis of capitalist monetarism was correct. “Come,” he said, “Let me show you.”
He led Hajj 'Umar into a room banked with computers, busy passing information. He paused in front of two screens. “Look!” On one screen Cartier’s in Monte Carlo were requesting authorisation to sell an expensive piece of jewellery to a client from Jordan. “Now, watch carefully,” he said. The credit-card authority identified the buyer’s account. The credit-card company confirmed purchase authorisation. “Now look!” The two screens flickered – the transfer was made. In the flash between the two screens Dr Shalabi declared: “There! That’s money!”
In Surat al-A'raf (7:115-116):
They said, ‘Musa, will you throw first
or shall we be the ones to throw?’
He said, ‘You throw.’ And when they threw,
they cast a spell on the people's eyes
and caused them to feel great fear of them.
They produced an extremely powerful magic.
At the beginning of the analysis came recognition that between the money and the thing a dynamic energy flow moved the thing – changed ownership. As the money increased the owners diminished. The propulsion was of its nature designed to transfer the things to new ownership. The owners in turn by necessity would then in a crude financial Darwinism take from each other –a “survival of the richest” doctrine. Everything in the end was going to be owned by one, after the prior elite handful had destroyed each other bar the winner. Globalisation of things meant, in fact, an ultimate minimalist ownership. This is what Proudhon meant when he declared, “Poverty is theft.”
It is now necessary to ask, “What is the nature of this fluid power that dynamises activity between money and thing?” For example, it would appear to be magic which stimulates the supine tissue with weakened nerves. On examination one discovers that it is not magic but the application of an energy field. Once it is understood that this field consists of electric current the matter becomes clear.
The force that activates ‘money’ into moving thing, that is, change ownership, once understood, suggests to us the cure is possible.
The dynamic of the money-movement-thing linkage can be identified. It is called Usury.
Are they not guided
by the many generations We have destroyed before them,
among whose dwelling places they walk about?
There are Signs in that for people of sound intellect.
What, firstly, is the venous system of the present world society? The life-blood which activates every organ, limb and sinew of human life on our planet is of course, money. Not real-wealth, not commodities, not minerals and certainly not oil and gas. The money system is not specie, it is neither coin, nor bonds, nor bank-notes. It is pure number. Yet the numbers have been assigned to things. It is the connectedness of number to things that sustains that system which finally is showing itself as unsustainable.
In order that this money system continue to function, it follows from this, the relational pattern of number to thing must be in place.
Now, right away, we discover the hidden protocol on which that relational connection, that necessary relational connection, is dependent for its existence.
At the binding core of the world money system is the human creature, for it is his acceptance of the dynamic which agrees that between thing and number is a link which in turn authorises or licenses the whole global string of activities which propel the movement of things by the mutually agreed instrument of a number sequence unlocking itself from thing to person and from person to thing.
Thus the whole sequence is itself dependent on the activating person. For the monetary system of the current society to function – an accepting individual is necessary.
Now, in order to gain the acquiescence of the person in the sequence of events we have indicated, that person has to have accepted that both the specifics and their activation are real and have meaning. It must, in short, make sense – be reasonable.
The person concerned can be motivated to participate in the money process in two possible modes:
1] He is convinced by verification that:
a) The numbers are real, that is, have value intrinsically, that is, in themselves, prior to the money-thing propulsion.
b) The thing is real, existent, present in a place.
c) That the activating current that ‘assigns’ connection from number to thing is real, makes sense, and has social confirmation.
2] He is compelled by the compulsion that obliges its acceptance:
a) Because of his prior role in the money-thing process which entraps him into going along with the method.
b) Because of an undifferentiated anxiety about both money and thing, as well as any possible linkage.
c) While knowing the sequence is false, he feels helpless to dismantle it.
d) He knows it is unreal and so false, and at the same time continues to practise it.
In the first case it is both known and demonstrable that the number has no intrinsic value and no existence except as abstract. It is also known that things exist in themselves. What cannot be proved is that the dynamic linking of number to thing is real in itself. It takes on existence by the evocation of it by a person who in turn must convince another that the pulsating link has an actual if unprovable reality. Therefore the whole sequence is determined by the convinced individual and by necessary extension a counterpart individual.
Nevertheless since the accepting individual cannot exist in reason, the individual, the activator of the system has to be in the second case: that means
a) compelled
b) in anxiety
c) nihilistic
d) psychotic.
Either one or all of the first three or the last, simply, or as a combination of the first three in crisis.
If man himself is the cause and the effect that energises the present disastrous world system, then man must be diagnosed, his sickness identified and his cure enacted.
In one of the most important medical schemas of our time there is a model of disease that is not reliant uniquely on specifying the viral agent itself, but rather proposes a more complex view that takes into account the social environment, the civic order and then the person as part of that total reality. In an epidemic event, the illness itself is seen not as a virus first, but as a diseased zone. The disease itself is defined as “miasma”. The polluted earth, the poisoned sea, the mineral depleted vegetables, the hormone-pumped meat, the disappearing species, the toxic air – all that is not merely the ambient setting of disease but the disease itself. Put simply, but differently from the accepted model, the sequence tuberculosis virus kills among the overcrowded poor, but penicillin cures it, is replaced by the view – industrial squalor flowers into a lung-destroying entity, which can be nursed on the mountain clinic. The viral view far from eliminating the illness has produced a now resistant super-bug, again without a cure.
The miasma of the current global disease has in it not only the imbalance of mass poverty and climactic disorder but a set of invented social mores that have smashed the model of man’s upbringing in a family nexus, abolishing marriage and casting the individual adrift without any intimate or civic ties. No family. No clan. No native land. No religion.
The miasma of the modern swamp called ‘the world community’ is made more obscure by two layers of patterning. The first is the structuralism of the whole social apparatus. Education is monitored by the State. Policing is outside the command of man, hidden by legal and government edicts. The structure of governance itself, being utterly divorced from the numbers-linked-thing system, which is the only empowered government that exists, is a kind of civic-centre theatre unable to dismantle the money-linked-thing monetarism of power.
The second is the imposed necessity of this individual man to accept that the money system a) is real and b) is actually working.
To prevent man from awakening before the system collapses, and before he can propose rescue, he finds himself re-defined as mass-man, and this is not just a communist phenomenon as in North Korea but it is essential to the new world system of democracy, and it manifests in Olympic Games, World Cup Sports Events, mass rock concerts and marathon runs.
The world miasma has seen and continues to see the extinction of specific species. In other words the genetic pattern of a species simply cannot survive the miasmic swamping which prevents that creature being precisely that creature. Only zoos are keeping alive some species just as the alpine sanatorium kept alive the dying tubercular patient. In the same way man is disappearing. Man, as understood by Aeschylus, Shakespeare and Ibsen may soon be gone.
In Surat al-Anbiya (21:44-45) Allah the Exalted declares:
No indeed! We have given these people enjoyment,
as We did their fathers,
until life seemed long and good to them.
Do they not see how We come to the land
eroding it from its extremities?
Or are they the victors?
Say: ‘I can only warn you through the Revelation.’
But the deaf cannot hear the call when they are warned.
The eroding of the coastlines is one of the effects of our analysed miasma. It is one of the indications of how the present world sickness is itself a defiance of the Divine Creator, may He be exalted, and the natural laws on which He has set up existence.
Certainly the present world system has given a smaller and smaller minority a life which has “seemed long and good to them.” Yet men today live inside a distorting psychosis.
The psychosis of numbers-wealth. This is the state of the one who thinks modern money exists. So, firstly, the need to grasp the nature of money, the non-existent nature of ‘money’ itself. Let us examine the structuration of currency.
The widow’s mite. The cent and the penny. Thus it begins with the poor. The decimal foundation of paper money. From 100 coins we reach a One-Something paper note. From there the ‘notes’ soon spiral from hundreds to thousands. As the system goes into action it begins to scoop up the world’s intrinsic value commodities, land and minerals. In order to acquire property and goods to the maximum, where once a hundred were needed, it then becomes a thousand. In our own lifetime a rich man was called a millionaire. Now he is a billionaire. National debts which were calculated in billions are now counted in trillions. The joked-of zillions are fast becoming the new reality.
This proliferation of money has three stages. A ‘local’ or national currency of paper-notes. They in turn are graded into tradable and non-tradable. The tradable can be used in the ‘world-market’ while the latter are blocked from any but local usage and exchange. This is the first stage. A new nation, like Croatia, is ‘granted’ its own currency.
The second stage is the arena in which the acquired wealth gained by the ‘money’ is so successful that the small base of a currency, merely national, is seen as hindering wealth expansion. Trading zones are united, so that what once were nations become trading-blocks with one new currency covering that of the new grouping. The model was the European Community which demanded the Euro. The similar models can be observed in South-East Asia and South America. Logic insists that the new syncretic “communities” merge finally into “the International Community”, already politically prepared for it, and named in media on a daily basis so that people believe it too exists.
The third stage is the acceptance of an anti-money. Since the money itself is non-existent it is only logical (if irrational!) that alongside money should exist an openly admitted anti-money. This in turn will provide a ‘proof’ that the primary money system is real by contrast with anti-money. Anti-money is a non-money system that is then given parity with “real” money. This non-money is debt. It then follows that debt can be bought and sold like “real” money.
It is not accidental that the two great financial institutions that are based on this anti-money, debt, have been given the names of a man and a woman. The ignorant masses are told that this non-money is in the hands of two nice homely peasants, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, somehow it is reassuring. The actual situation that now stands revealed is that should these two banking institutions crash, so enlaced are they with the ‘real’ money that the whole system itself would come crashing down. The masses have been told that all is well – the national government has “stepped in” to rescue everyone. This in turn is a further lie which reveals where power truly lies. The national money is in fact a private conglomerate of super-banks deceptively named “The Fed”.
To return to the legendary ‘currency’ – dollars, pounds, roubles, euros and so on.
From the widow’s cent to the dollar to the stocks and bonds and loans and debts and traded debt, at any stage it can clearly be demonstrated to be illusory. The total system is in constant expansion. Not only does it expand by its evolving instruments of exchange but it expands by an even further insanity. The money is false. It seems real as it is other than the admittedly false anti-money, debt. If the ignorant masses can buy all this why stop there? There is another crop of wealth to be harvested. Let us trade in what may happen as we have traded in what is happening. Let the monetarists trade on the future market, or as they call it, the futures market, to give it reality, as if each thing traded has its own reality.
A final word on the instrument of exchange, ‘money’.
It should be borne in mind that for over half a century the banking industry has gone to enormous trouble to promote the idea that robbing a bank was a way to acquire immediate wealth. A whole book could be written on the banking industry (industry?) and its exploitation of the movie industry helping it to advance a mythic conviction that banks were repositories of wealth. In film after film they have granted the movies access to great fortress-like banks which in turn become the arena for the bank-raid. The message is that the bank is the holder of vast wealth and it is unreachable.
The truth is that it is empty. The billions are not in the vaults. Just as when the French Revolutionaries broke into the Bastille to free its prisoners, they discovered only a handful, so today the bank raider will find only a handful of deposit boxes with some jewellery and bonds. The Bastille was the symbolic power institution of a political power system, so today the Bank is the symbolic power institution of an economic power system.
Where has all the money gone? What is in the till and in the pocket and under the bed and in the bank is simply loose change. Yet the secret of the financial system is beginning to leak out as its institutions, one by one, are going to the wall.
“In today’s trading on the New York Stock Exchange in one hour ten billion dollars were wiped off share prices.”
Where did they go? Who took them? Why were they handed over? Now what are they going to do?
Look at the reality of money.
France’s Societé Generale have posted a 7.1 billion quarterly loss. One trader alone, Jerome Kerviel, is accused of “losing” 4.9 billion. A very intelligent and poised banker, he has declared “I will not be the scapegoat!”
Lehman posted a 3.9 billion loss for the third quarter. Lehman plan to spin off about $30 billion of problematic assets into a separate company – the “bad” bank which would be owned by Lehman shareholders alongside their “good” bank.
Fannie Mae posted a quarterly loss of $2.3 billion. As a result of its having no prospect of recovery, it has been ‘nationalised’. This was the second intervention, the first being the rescue of Bear Stearns investment bank. Freddie Mac in turn posted a quarterly loss of $2 billion, and has gone the way of Fannie Mae into State take-over.
Freddie Mac with celebrities like Magic Johnson runs a “Hoops for the Homeless” basketball tournament to raise charity for the homeless. It is heartening to know!
So where have all the billions gone? In the words of Shakespeare: “Nothing will come to nothing.”
Just before the second Iraq War, Dr Shalabi, fascinated by the work of Hajj ‘Umar Vadillo in the matter of the gold Islamic Dinar, invited him to meet and explain his position. They met at the headquarters of Dr Shalabi’s credit card operation which covered the whole of the Middle East. He confirmed that Hajj ‘Umar’s analysis of capitalist monetarism was correct. “Come,” he said, “Let me show you.”
He led Hajj 'Umar into a room banked with computers, busy passing information. He paused in front of two screens. “Look!” On one screen Cartier’s in Monte Carlo were requesting authorisation to sell an expensive piece of jewellery to a client from Jordan. “Now, watch carefully,” he said. The credit-card authority identified the buyer’s account. The credit-card company confirmed purchase authorisation. “Now look!” The two screens flickered – the transfer was made. In the flash between the two screens Dr Shalabi declared: “There! That’s money!”
In Surat al-A'raf (7:115-116):
They said, ‘Musa, will you throw first
or shall we be the ones to throw?’
He said, ‘You throw.’ And when they threw,
they cast a spell on the people's eyes
and caused them to feel great fear of them.
They produced an extremely powerful magic.
At the beginning of the analysis came recognition that between the money and the thing a dynamic energy flow moved the thing – changed ownership. As the money increased the owners diminished. The propulsion was of its nature designed to transfer the things to new ownership. The owners in turn by necessity would then in a crude financial Darwinism take from each other –a “survival of the richest” doctrine. Everything in the end was going to be owned by one, after the prior elite handful had destroyed each other bar the winner. Globalisation of things meant, in fact, an ultimate minimalist ownership. This is what Proudhon meant when he declared, “Poverty is theft.”
It is now necessary to ask, “What is the nature of this fluid power that dynamises activity between money and thing?” For example, it would appear to be magic which stimulates the supine tissue with weakened nerves. On examination one discovers that it is not magic but the application of an energy field. Once it is understood that this field consists of electric current the matter becomes clear.
The force that activates ‘money’ into moving thing, that is, change ownership, once understood, suggests to us the cure is possible.
The dynamic of the money-movement-thing linkage can be identified. It is called Usury.
-
SandChigger
- KJASF Ground Zero
- Posts: 14492
- Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
- Location: A continuing state of irritation
- Contact:
-
Freakzilla
- Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
- Posts: 18449
- Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
- Contact:
-
Omphalos
- Inglorious Bastard
- Posts: 6677
- Joined: 05 Feb 2008 11:07
- Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California
- Contact:
-
A Thing of Eternity
- Posts: 6090
- Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
- Location: Calgary Alberta
I agree with you except for one thing; I don't think we mean the same thing when we say greed. I mean greed in it's most literal - wanting more than you need, which is the basis for most progress. And since no one can easily define what one wants and what one needs it becomes very hard to even say what acts are acts of greed and which aren't - let alone seperate the good acts of greed from the bad.inhuien wrote:Greed as a motivational aspect could be viewed as beneficial but I don't think it is a Good thing.
Remember you are not what you own.
When most people say greed, they mean "greed with disregard for others" or "greed that is dangerously out of control", obviously almost anything can end up being evil/bad if it is used without catioun, even things we normally define as good. I don't think it's possible to say flat out that greed is evilif we have established that (in it's pure form) it causes good. Only when combined with negative personallity traits like lack of common sense, ignorance, lack of respect for others does greed then become bad. The pure concept of greed IMHO can only be considered as a very dangerous but very "good" trait for humanity.
Then again I don't even think the words good and evil/morally bad actually mean anything, so I guess that was all pointless.
Sorry for the rant, but the nature of stuff like greed, pride, good, bad, is one of my all time favorite topics and I'll start a rant if anyone even sounds remotely interested.
-
Ampoliros
- Posts: 2518
- Joined: 14 Mar 2008 11:22
- Location: I think we took a wrong turn...
From my understanding, aren't the problems on Wall Street mostly only effecting the corporate sector? (yes i know about trickle-down) Why do taxpayers need to bail out bloated grandfather clauses of our economy? It seems to me that this is just another way to instill fear in the public, most of our personal holdings are insured against this thing. Lets keep that 700 Billion to buffer the little man, not to pay off the rich man's debts.
I'm definitely not handing someone my wallet when their explanation is "Hurry NOW NOW NOW, oh and you have to sign this saying you can't ask questions."
I Jon Stewart and John Oliver were right last night, Bush can't be the greatest president ever, so maybe he's just trying to be the last.
I'm definitely not handing someone my wallet when their explanation is "Hurry NOW NOW NOW, oh and you have to sign this saying you can't ask questions."
I Jon Stewart and John Oliver were right last night, Bush can't be the greatest president ever, so maybe he's just trying to be the last.
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
-
A Thing of Eternity
- Posts: 6090
- Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
- Location: Calgary Alberta
It's the insurance companies that are getting bailed out! Doesn't matter if everything is insured if the company that insured it doesn't exist.Ampoliros wrote:From my understanding, aren't the problems on Wall Street mostly only effecting the corporate sector? (yes i know about trickle-down) Why do taxpayers need to bail out bloated grandfather clauses of our economy? It seems to me that this is just another way to instill fear in the public, most of our personal holdings are insured against this thing. Lets keep that 700 Billion to buffer the little man, not to pay off the rich man's debts.
I'm definitely not handing someone my wallet when their explanation is "Hurry NOW NOW NOW, oh and you have to sign this saying you can't ask questions."
I Jon Stewart and John Oliver were right last night, Bush can't be the greatest president ever, so maybe he's just trying to be the last.
As far as trickle down, it could be more like crash down if not curtailed.
That said, 700 billion $ could have paid for one hell of a healthcare system, but I guess even that would be useless if there's no economy.
What I wonder is - who is the US borrowing that 700,000,000,000.00 dollars from?
-
Freakzilla
- Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
- Posts: 18449
- Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
- Contact:
-
chanilover
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: 18 Feb 2008 08:29
The bailout is to stop the banking sector from drying up and the US economy from collapsing. No credit provded by banks means no money for new mortgages, credit cards, loans for new cars, hire purchase for household goods, or loans for businesses to buy new capital items, which means an enormous downturn in sales, recession, and job losses throughout all sectors of the economy. Why are Americans kidding themselves that things aren't really that bad?Ampoliros wrote:From my understanding, aren't the problems on Wall Street mostly only effecting the corporate sector? (yes i know about trickle-down) Why do taxpayers need to bail out bloated grandfather clauses of our economy? It seems to me that this is just another way to instill fear in the public, most of our personal holdings are insured against this thing. Lets keep that 700 Billion to buffer the little man, not to pay off the rich man's debts.
I'm definitely not handing someone my wallet when their explanation is "Hurry NOW NOW NOW, oh and you have to sign this saying you can't ask questions."
I Jon Stewart and John Oliver were right last night, Bush can't be the greatest president ever, so maybe he's just trying to be the last.
If AIG had gone bust, it would have dragged several banks down with it and grounded the aviation industry. Apparently AIG insured more than half the commercial airliners in the sky, and they wouldn't fly those things without insurance on them.
"You and your buddies and that b*tch Mandy are nothing but a gang of lying, socially maladjusted losers." - St Hypatia of Arrakeen.
-
Serkanner
- Administrator
- Posts: 2976
- Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
- Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands
Every American should expect an extra bill of app. $ 2300 soon. It is a disgrace that the big guns have screwed up and ordinary folks have to cough up the money. I am pretty sure that NONE of the people responsible for this crisis will be hold responsible ... damn!
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
-
A Thing of Eternity
- Posts: 6090
- Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
- Location: Calgary Alberta
I thought the tax payers were busy paying off the old debt of 3 or 5 trillion dollars (what's it up to now?) - of course they'll have to pay this off too, but the money is still coming from someone else in the mean time. How does it work when the US borrows money from the world banks, does it come from specific countries? This is something I've always wondered about, who specifically is the US in debt to? I'm under the impression that the US owes China something like 1trillion for the Iraq war but I could be mistaken.Freakzilla wrote:The taxpayers.A Thing of Eternity wrote:What I wonder is - who is the US borrowing that 700,000,000,000.00 dollars from?
-
Freakzilla
- Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
- Posts: 18449
- Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
- Contact:
-
A Thing of Eternity
- Posts: 6090
- Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
- Location: Calgary Alberta
Thanks Freak!
Wow, I knew the US owed China big bucks but I didn't know they owed Japan and Britain so much too. What happens if the US doesn't pay by a certain date? I'm really not up on how global money lending works. Do Japan and China have to come over and break thumbs?
Soooo... according to that link which says Canada owns 0.92% of US debt, and this link:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Which says US debt is $9,739,731,583,154 ($32,132.90 per American person) that means the US owes Canada $90,102,330,565.0168 - and if there are only 33,383,104 Canadians...
The US owes me personally $2699.04!! Pay up or I'll bust yer thumbs GW Bush!
(I jest I jest!)
Wow, I knew the US owed China big bucks but I didn't know they owed Japan and Britain so much too. What happens if the US doesn't pay by a certain date? I'm really not up on how global money lending works. Do Japan and China have to come over and break thumbs?
Soooo... according to that link which says Canada owns 0.92% of US debt, and this link:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Which says US debt is $9,739,731,583,154 ($32,132.90 per American person) that means the US owes Canada $90,102,330,565.0168 - and if there are only 33,383,104 Canadians...
The US owes me personally $2699.04!! Pay up or I'll bust yer thumbs GW Bush!
(I jest I jest!)
-
Ampoliros
- Posts: 2518
- Joined: 14 Mar 2008 11:22
- Location: I think we took a wrong turn...
Bush and Cheney should have to put up the lion's share of this. If donating money to officials for campaigns is 'free speech' I should be able to withhold at least 50% of my taxes for the same damn reason.
I'm pretty much 100% against this bailout.
"privatizing gains, socializing losses" is not a sound economic policy. And I definitely think we should have oversight over this.
I'm pretty much 100% against this bailout.
"privatizing gains, socializing losses" is not a sound economic policy. And I definitely think we should have oversight over this.
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
-
Rakis
- Posts: 1583
- Joined: 16 Feb 2008 00:00
WooooHoooo !!! New snowblower, here i comeA Thing of Eternity wrote:Thanks Freak!
Wow, I knew the US owed China big bucks but I didn't know they owed Japan and Britain so much too. What happens if the US doesn't pay by a certain date? I'm really not up on how global money lending works. Do Japan and China have to come over and break thumbs?
Soooo... according to that link which says Canada owns 0.92% of US debt, and this link:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Which says US debt is $9,739,731,583,154 ($32,132.90 per American person) that means the US owes Canada $90,102,330,565.0168 - and if there are only 33,383,104 Canadians...
The US owes me personally $2699.04!! Pay up or I'll bust yer thumbs GW Bush!
(I jest I jest!)
I'm willing to give back a small donation to the US : i love you guys so much...
-
orald
- Posts: 3010
- Joined: 28 Feb 2008 14:48
- Location: Maximum Security Mental Hospital
).-
Phaedrus
- Posts: 551
- Joined: 09 Feb 2008 04:35
Banks are insured by the Federal Reserve. You know, that U.S. government central banking system?A Thing of Eternity wrote:It's the insurance companies that are getting bailed out! Doesn't matter if everything is insured if the company that insured it doesn't exist.
I agree, except for the fact that our financial system will completely crash and burn if we don't do it. It seems like we HAVE to do it, but we don't have to do it with this no strings attached bullshit. They should have to pay the government back, with interest. At least earn the taxpayers some money instead of just handing more over and increasing the national debt.Bush and Cheney should have to put up the lion's share of this. If donating money to officials for campaigns is 'free speech' I should be able to withhold at least 50% of my taxes for the same damn reason.
I'm pretty much 100% against this bailout.
"privatizing gains, socializing losses" is not a sound economic policy. And I definitely think we should have oversight over this.
I'm completely convinced that Republicans are full of shit. When they rail on about the free market, and letting the market take care of these problems, they must have been confused, because I think they're currently initiating the biggest invasion of government into the market in all of U.S. history.
Here's a bullshit translator for you: "Let the free market take care of economic problems" means "We don't care what happens to poor people and the middle class, as long as rich people are making profit." If rich people aren't making profit, they're all too willing to abandon the free market and use socialism to "redistribute the wealth" to the people who are rightfully losing their wealth(under free market principles).
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
-
A Thing of Eternity
- Posts: 6090
- Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
- Location: Calgary Alberta
No, I didn't know (I know now though, I do thank you for filling me in), unfortunately I still don't know a couple of obscure details about that country I don't live inPhaedrus wrote:Banks are insured by the Federal Reserve. You know, that U.S. government central banking system?A Thing of Eternity wrote:It's the insurance companies that are getting bailed out! Doesn't matter if everything is insured if the company that insured it doesn't exist.
I'll get that fixed as soon as I have nothing better to do . Also, I thought he was talking about personal and company insurance, not bank insurance - my bad.-
Drunken Idaho
- Posts: 1197
- Joined: 15 Sep 2008 23:56
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Alright, here's the skinny on the financial conundrum:
7% market drop is nothing. Black Monday in the '80's saw the markets go down 23% and it picked itself right up. These things fluctuate from time to time. I'm a Canadian (where's my $2699.04?!), but needless to say this stuff affects us all. A total stock market crash is not going to happen because the US has other plans.
This 7% is most likely being used as a way to get people worried, using FEAR to make them approve of the first solution put before them (THE BAILOUT)
Now, the Bail-Out is just a way of the Bush administration trying to get as much money as they can for the wealthiest of the wealthy, before they're out of there in a month. They tried to scare everyone with the 7% just so they can line their wallets.
What you need to worry about now is what they do in the near future to "fix" the economy. Right now, those in power are trying to start a world bank of sorts, with a fixed currency for everyone. Their next step after that is to make a world government.
The stock market crisis is the puppet show.
Look behind the curtains at the puppeteers.
7% market drop is nothing. Black Monday in the '80's saw the markets go down 23% and it picked itself right up. These things fluctuate from time to time. I'm a Canadian (where's my $2699.04?!), but needless to say this stuff affects us all. A total stock market crash is not going to happen because the US has other plans.
This 7% is most likely being used as a way to get people worried, using FEAR to make them approve of the first solution put before them (THE BAILOUT)
Now, the Bail-Out is just a way of the Bush administration trying to get as much money as they can for the wealthiest of the wealthy, before they're out of there in a month. They tried to scare everyone with the 7% just so they can line their wallets.
What you need to worry about now is what they do in the near future to "fix" the economy. Right now, those in power are trying to start a world bank of sorts, with a fixed currency for everyone. Their next step after that is to make a world government.
The stock market crisis is the puppet show.
Look behind the curtains at the puppeteers.
-
Anathema
- Posts: 62
- Joined: 08 Jul 2008 08:17
- Location: The Netherlands
The House of Rep. has just approved the bailout. Fortunately you can always count on wavering congressmen to be bribed with goodies for their constituents and campaign supporters.
The inception of this crisis is the thought that everybody ought to be able to buy a house (with loaned money). Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, government-created private enterprises with the stated mission of pumping money into the mortgage market, got preferential treatment by the Federal Reserve and Congress to make it so. The idea that this disaster is brought on entirely by deregulation, or Obama's theorum "the idea that we ought to give the rich more in the interest of the economy" are both bogus.
Now, you get an increasing number of crappy mortgages. But 1) some banks created elaborate "securities" wich hid this disaster-waiting-to-happen from oversight so that people would buy them anyway, leading to 2) a lot of people assumed that it didn't matter that "some" poor people can't pay off their mortgages because the houses attached to them would rise in value indefinitely.
Obviously some regulation is required because the entire financial system exists by the grace of regulations wich are so basic that nobody thinks about them. This crisis could have been prevented by more stringent regulation about transparency or legally required down-payments. The problem with the US' financial policy over the last years was that it was half-arsed, and now politicians are suggesting that deregulation is always bad.
That's a philosophy that many republicans claim to support, but if Bush said that he's a hypocrite.Phaedrus wrote:Here's a bullshit translator for you: "Let the free market take care of economic problems" means "We don't care what happens to poor people and the middle class, as long as rich people are making profit." If rich people aren't making profit, they're all too willing to abandon the free market and use socialism to "redistribute the wealth" to the people who are rightfully losing their wealth(under free market principles).
The inception of this crisis is the thought that everybody ought to be able to buy a house (with loaned money). Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, government-created private enterprises with the stated mission of pumping money into the mortgage market, got preferential treatment by the Federal Reserve and Congress to make it so. The idea that this disaster is brought on entirely by deregulation, or Obama's theorum "the idea that we ought to give the rich more in the interest of the economy" are both bogus.
Now, you get an increasing number of crappy mortgages. But 1) some banks created elaborate "securities" wich hid this disaster-waiting-to-happen from oversight so that people would buy them anyway, leading to 2) a lot of people assumed that it didn't matter that "some" poor people can't pay off their mortgages because the houses attached to them would rise in value indefinitely.
Obviously some regulation is required because the entire financial system exists by the grace of regulations wich are so basic that nobody thinks about them. This crisis could have been prevented by more stringent regulation about transparency or legally required down-payments. The problem with the US' financial policy over the last years was that it was half-arsed, and now politicians are suggesting that deregulation is always bad.
-
SandChigger
- KJASF Ground Zero
- Posts: 14492
- Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
- Location: A continuing state of irritation
- Contact:
-
Robspierre
- Posts: 2162
- Joined: 19 Feb 2008 10:49
- Location: Cascadia
-
Rakis
- Posts: 1583
- Joined: 16 Feb 2008 00:00
Robspierre wrote:The truth about the financial crisis!!!!
http://pageoneq.com/news/2008/Fundament ... _0929.html
Rob
-
Freakzilla
- Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
- Posts: 18449
- Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
- Contact:
