Who do you want to be President?

[A Thing of Eternity]

Hey, I don't make policy. I'm telling you what happened from a soldier's point of view.

If Saddam had kept control of Kuwait he would have had control of something like 40% of the world's oil reserves.

That would not have been good for anyone but Saddam. In fact it promissed to be very, very bad.

We can't fight everyone at once. I'd love to see us liberate every country. How about some help?

I'm not trying to demonize the US, I don't have a vastly higher opinion of the military actions most western countries, and the actions of many I have a lower opinion of, often including my own.

The US has plenty of help, take a look at all the countries involved in Iraq and Afganistan, especially when not breaking with UN. When the US doesn't have help, or not as much as it'd like it's not because no one wants to help liberate countries, its becase no one thinks that's what the US is doing. BUT, that's not just how the US works, it's most western nations.

The reality is that none of our counties is out to do the right and moral thing as their main objectives. Our leaders are out to make $ for their countries and get re-elected first, help people who can't vote for them second. Canada has peace keepers everywhere, and so do many other countries, but when it comes down to going in and actually dealing with a crisis like Darfur (far worse than anything Iraq ever did, but Darfur doesn't cost or make us money) that requires massive military force all of our leaders sit on their hands and debate the definition of genocide while people are massacred.

Some counties can be liberated by force, some can't, running around the world and blowing things up is trying to fix symptoms instead of problems. It is necessary sometimes, but thinking that we can just invade all the poor countrys and fix em up all nice and save the world is totally off base.

[Freakzilla]

We have to keep our heads until this peace craze blows over.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just to help clarify my position, I'm not against military force, I'm against this idea that military can fix everything. I think going into Afganistan was the right thing to do, and I was glad to see Canada join in, and I'll be glad to see our troops there for as long as is necessary.

That said, one of the only two patriotic moments in my life was when Canada refused to follow into Iraq.

[Freakzilla]

There are no problems that cannot be solved by a suitable application of high explosives.

[A Thing of Eternity]

There are no problems that cannot be solved by a suitable application of high explosives.

What's that from? It's just barely escaping me...

[Freakzilla]

There are no problems that cannot be solved by a suitable application of high explosives.

What's that from? It's just barely escaping me...

I don't know where it's originally from. I think I first heard it in demolition training...

(Don't worry about me, the brainwashing is slowly wearing off.)

[Freakzilla]

oh and Freak, once we start drilling in the Canadian arctic, we'll have a lot more oil to share with you guys. thank you global warming

Hey, the warmer it gets, the nicer a place to live Canada will be!

(I've heard that there's more oil under Alaska's North Slope than Saudi Arabia.)

[A Thing of Eternity]

Shusshh! Bryan, don't tell the Americans we have the oil. Didn't you get the memo?!

Look at this math I just did:

....If Saddam had kept control of Kuwait he would have had control of something like 40% of the world's oil reserves.

That would not have been good for anyone but Saddam. In fact it promissed to be very, very bad....

+

oh and Freak, once we start drilling in the Canadian arctic, we'll have a lot more oil to share with you guys. thank you global warming

= the USA needs to take over Canada, us having oil is a threat to world security. Don't give them ideas!!!!

Also, lets not get into talking about global warming...


As far as patriotic moments, I only have them for Canada when I see our country do something really good. Voting in any party regardless of whether I agree with them doesn't make the grade for me.

[GamePlayer]

Well, it appears to be a predominant opinion of the American left that if Canada just had nicer weather, it'd be a perfect place to live. And I'm still not sure if that's a compliment or an insult. Probably both

I find the older I get, the more belligerent I get. I want Canadian military intervention in Afghanistan and I'm glad we're there. I hope for the best and wish that we can do some good, but if all we accomplish is to kick over the anthills for a while, that's good enough for me. When push comes to shove, I'd rather ally with the States than anyone else. They may be a big bully, but at least they are our kinda bully...most of the time. It's just the tyranny of human civilization; we're all out for our own interests, tragic as that may be. But we do indeed help some of the time, so we're not totally heartless.

I will say this: the U.S. makes a fantastic scapegoat. They make everyone else look good. Canada, Britain, the European nations, Australia; we all get away with bloody murder because the U.S. soaks up all the bad press. No one gives a shit if Canadian soldiers torture Afghans; it's the U.S. that will absorb all the bad press like a sponge. But that's what comes from being number one; you enjoy all the perks but you're also the first to be laughed at when you fumble the ball.

[Freakzilla]

Awww, we'd never do anything to harm our brothers in the north.

[Freakzilla]

Well, it appears to be a predominant opinion of the American left that if Canada just had nicer weather, it'd be a perfect place to live. And I'm still not sure if that's a compliment or an insult. Probably both

I find the older I get, the more belligerent I get. I want Canadian military intervention in Afghanistan and I'm glad we're there. I hope for the best and wish that we can do some good, but if all we accomplish is to kick over the anthills for a while, that's good enough for me. When push comes to shove, I'd rather ally with the States than anyone else. They may be a big bully, but at least they are our kinda bully...most of the time. It's just the tyranny of human civilization; we're all out for our own interests, tragic as that may be. But we do indeed help some of the time, so we're not totally heartless.

I will say this: the U.S. makes a fantastic scapegoat. They make everyone else look good. Canada, Britain, the European nations, Australia; we all get away with bloody murder because the U.S. soaks up all the bad press. No one gives a shit if Canadian soldiers torture Afghans; it's the U.S. that will absorb all the bad press like a sponge. But that's what comes from being number one; you enjoy all the perks but you're also the first to be laughed at when you fumble the ball.

We're used to everyone hating us.

Honestly, the American people wants what's best for the world and feel sometimes we're the only ones (with a little help from our friends) who can do anything about it.

Please don't (not saying you) point the finger at our people or our soldiers (which are one in the same, of course) it's the greedy politicians that are to blame.

[TheDukester]

There are no problems that cannot be solved by a suitable application of high explosives.

That reminds me a bit of one of Heinlein's speeches, as filtered through the mouth of Dubois, the instructor:

"Violence never solves anything? Young lady, violence solves everything. Violence has solved more issues in history than any other factor."

(Paraphrasing, but it's close, even if every word isn't exact)

[A Thing of Eternity]

I will say this: the U.S. makes a fantastic scapegoat. They make everyone else look good. Canada, Britain, the European nations, Australia; we all get away with bloody murder because the U.S. soaks up all the bad press. No one gives a shit if Canadian soldiers torture Afghans; it's the U.S. that will absorb all the bad press like a sponge. But that's what comes from being number one; you enjoy all the perks but you're also the first to be laughed at when you fumble the ball.

I was trying to say something like that but you really put it much better than I could have. I think the US gets scapegoated allot by the west to make the rest of us feel better about the crooked shit our our nations do.

We're used to everyone hating us.

Sadly, that's probably true.

Honestly, the American people wants what's best for the world and feel sometimes we're the only ones (with a little help from our friends) who can do anything about it.

I'm sure many of the people do want what's best for the world, but I have my doubts about the leaders. And the sad fact about most western nations is that the people only want what's best for the rest of the world if we don't have to pay for it ourselves. We say we want to in polls, and then quietly celebrate when our countries do something to benefit ourselves at the expense of others. We have to look after those close to home first and then we can worry about those foreigners.

Please don't (not saying you) point the finger at our people or our soldiers (which are one in the same, of course) it's the greedy politicians that are to blame.

Everyone is to blame to some degree. There are no innocents. You, me, my grandma, no citizen of the west has their hands clean of the blood shed by our society. The politicians push the button but we let them and even encourage them to some degree by remaining deliberately ignorant of the ramifications of our everyday actions.

understood on the patriotism thing... but bear in mind this is coming from a staunch conservative who has seen liberal rule most of his life... I’m pretty proud of what we accomplished

I guess I can understand that voting in a Conservative gov is an accomplishment of some kind from your point of view. Congrats to you then! (that came across as sarcasm, but it's not, I mean it honestly) To me it's just another minor lateral alteration to a broken machine.

[Freakzilla]

I can't imagine the world outcry if the USA cut it's foreign aid off totally and fixed our own problems.

Sure, they don't want our millitary to interfere but you can bet your ass they want our aid money. People don't usually think about that.

It's convenient to think of us as bullies but not as caring, charitable people.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I can't imagine the world outcry if the USA cut it's foreign aid off totally and fixed our own problems.

Sure, they don't want our millitary to interfere but you can bet your ass they want our aid money. People don't usually think about that.

It's convenient to think of us as bullies but not as caring, charitable people.

Indeed.

[SimonH]

Well, it appears to be a predominant opinion of the American left that if Canada just had nicer weather, it'd be a perfect place to live. And I'm still not sure if that's a compliment or an insult. Probably both

I find the older I get, the more belligerent I get. I want Canadian military intervention in Afghanistan and I'm glad we're there. I hope for the best and wish that we can do some good, but if all we accomplish is to kick over the anthills for a while, that's good enough for me. When push comes to shove, I'd rather ally with the States than anyone else. They may be a big bully, but at least they are our kinda bully...most of the time. It's just the tyranny of human civilization; we're all out for our own interests, tragic as that may be. But we do indeed help some of the time, so we're not totally heartless.

I will say this: the U.S. makes a fantastic scapegoat. They make everyone else look good. Canada, Britain, the European nations, Australia; we all get away with bloody murder because the U.S. soaks up all the bad press. No one gives a shit if Canadian soldiers torture Afghans; it's the U.S. that will absorb all the bad press like a sponge. But that's what comes from being number one; you enjoy all the perks but you're also the first to be laughed at when you fumble the ball.

We're used to everyone hating us.

Honestly, the American people wants what's best for the world and feel sometimes we're the only ones (with a little help from our friends) who can do anything about it.

Please don't (not saying you) point the finger at our people or our soldiers (which are one in the same, of course) it's the greedy politicians that are to blame.

I don't think I'm pointing the finger at anyone but the politicians. Maybe my language is a little too general. But then, the politicians are elected by the people, so should represent them to a degree. Many people in England protested against the Iraq war (I walked with a million people through the streets of London - and I'm no protesting hippee!). Back then the press made out like the people in the US thought it better to back their leader rather than express a negative opinion. Think of all the France bashing because they didn't want to participate. That was the American people, not the politicians. Maybe that is where my concern comes in.

Also, I don't understand why the soldier "bashing" idea comes up. I don't think I or anyone else has said anything negative about soldiers. They, by definition, do what the big brass tell them to do. I have a problem with what the big wigs decide.

I'd support my country helping out when it is obviously required. Like East Timor or Africa. Peace and rebuilding missions, not invasions.

[Freakzilla]

Note the "(not saying you)" part.

As far as the public knew at the time, there were good reasons for invading Iraq. Whether Bush passed on bad intelligence that was presented to him or he flat out lied I don't know. I really don't want to argue about that. As it stands now, I think simply packing up and pulling out would probably do more harm than good. From what I can tell, things seem to be improving greatly there as of late and I hope it will be over soon. But there is a difference between not bashing the troops and actually supporting them. We need to give them the tools they need to get the job done and get home, not cut them off.

As for the French as a fighting force, they've come by that reputation honestly, and not just recently. No offense to any French people.

[SimonH]

Note the "(not saying you)" part.

As far as the public knew at the time, there were good reasons for invading Iraq. Whether Bush passed on bad intelligence that was presented to him or he flat out lied I don't know. I really don't want to argue about that. As it stands now, I think simply packing up and pulling out would probably do more harm than good. From what I can tell, things seem to be improving greatly there as of late and I hope it will be over soon. But there is a difference between not bashing the troops and actually supporting them. We need to give them the tools they need to get the job done and get home, not cut them off.

As for the French as a fighting force, they've come by that reputation honestly, and not just recently. No offense to any French people.

Iraq should be rebuilt. By the countries who took part in the war. I don't know where the money is going to come from.

But there is still the war mentality. "We won" or "we lost" doesn't count. If Iraq can be rebuilt well then this will be a good thing for everyone. Iraq could be an ally not an enemy. Money spent on war is money thrown away in my opinion

[Mandy]

[Nebiros]

As far as the public knew at the time, there were good reasons for invading Iraq. Whether Bush passed on bad intelligence that was presented to him or he flat out lied I don't know. I really don't want to argue about that. As it stands now, I think simply packing up and pulling out would probably do more harm than good. From what I can tell, things seem to be improving greatly there as of late and I hope it will be over soon. But there is a difference between not bashing the troops and actually supporting them. We need to give them the tools they need to get the job done and get home, not cut them off.

Acutually that is exactly what you need to do. Cut off funds so the president will give up on his stupid war. So yes I criticize the Democrats for not doing so.

You refuse to aknowledge that invading Iraq in the first place was a mistake. Therefore you choose to be ignorant. Going into Iraq in the first place or not I repeat is VERY relevant because if you do not realize the mistake you made you will do it again. This time in Iran. How can McCain be the lesser evil when it is he who does not aknowledge that his vote FOR military action in Iraq was wrong? He is doomed to repeat the same mistake Bush did. Obama opposed the war from day one.

Yes the situation in Iraq has improved, but just HOW do you plan to leave? Now that the surge has passed, McCain has no exit strategy. Bush now has a plan for widthdrawl but McCain opposes it! And the idiot opposed Bush's decision to take North Korea off the list of state sponsors of terrorism so North Korea will continue to dismantle their nuclear program. Bush is of course an idiot but after all these years he is finally doing things right, and McCain STAYS stupid! He should have opposed Bush earlier when Bush was actually wrong!

[SandChigger]

Mandy! NICE!!!

I saw the clip on CNNj this morning where she proudly tells her audience at some rally, "Someone called me a redneck. ... I said, 'Well thank you!'"

Fuck.

And now McCain is saying electing Obama would be like reelecting George Bush for another term?

So, Freak, does that mean McCain thinks Dubya is a communist Muslim?

[Rakis]

Mandy! NICE!!!

I saw the clip on CNNj this morning where she proudly tells her audience at some rally, "Someone called me a redneck. ... I said, 'Well thank you!'"

Fuck.

And now McCain is saying electing Obama would be like reelecting George Bush for another term?

So, Freak, does that mean McCain thinks Dubya is a communist Muslim?

Good timing...al-Qaeda just backed McCain

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/32305

[SandRider]

Palin's Scottish ?
Technically you gotta be descended from the Scots to be a redneck ...

[Robspierre]

Palin's Scottish ?
Technically you gotta be descended from the Scots to be a redneck ...

Don't forget Billy's hillboys!

Rob

[SandRider]

A dollar says you & I are the only ones who know what we're talking about.