Avatar Racist?!?!


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The_Preacher
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Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by The_Preacher »

Some people need to get a life and stop jumping at shadows: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100111/ap_ ... tar_racism
If Frank Herbert were alive today he'd be spinning in his grave if he could see what they've done to his legacy.

I bought the very first prequel on Amazon as soon as it was available. God! I wouldn't wipe me arse with that trash! Never again, says I. Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by Freakzilla »

Do they speak with an african-american dialect?

Racism is everywhere, you just have to look for it.

:wink:
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by The_Preacher »

A culture with advance technology and weaponry usurps an indigenous culture with what amounts to sticks and stones? Unheard of!!

And gee... it takes a person from culture A who understands the weapons, technology and tactics to assist the peoples of culture B, who have no idea what they're up against and how ridiculously outmatched they are, to prepare said people to avoid slaughter.

Sound racist to me? Not bloody likely. Sounds like what's happened again and again throughout human history.
If Frank Herbert were alive today he'd be spinning in his grave if he could see what they've done to his legacy.

I bought the very first prequel on Amazon as soon as it was available. God! I wouldn't wipe me arse with that trash! Never again, says I. Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.
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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by A Thing of Eternity »

They do have African accents. Not sure how that makes it racist, because they are the portrayed only as awesome...

... now JarJar and the Jamaicans, now they had a case!
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by DuneFishUK »

I was discussing this a couple of weeks ago - The conclusion was that it wasn't racist, just an expression of Jake Sulley's guilt over killing all them fuzzy-wuzzies during his time as a marine in Africa.

At the beginning he says he used to dream of flying - I don't think he's prescient so there needs to be another explanation: the most likely one being that he went into a mental coma-dream following the death of his smarter scientist twin brother (an aspirational figure, who hasn't been involved in the murder of hundreds... probably thousands (if not millions) of Africans and who hasn't been 'punished' for it).

In this catatonic-coma-dream he imagines he can become his cleaner, better, purer brother (the avatar is created from his brother's DNA) and become a new cleaner, better, purer, more honourable man. In doing so he escapes his punishment (he can walk again) and is forgiven (flying etc) as he (the Na'vi warriors - he is a warrior) forgives him and he can permanently be his aspirational brother character and become one with the Africans (the tribal Na'vi)

Or something... :P


The storyline for Avatar 2 will be when the doctor's revive him, and it was all a dream. :)
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Ampoliros
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by Ampoliros »

I think the racism stems more from the fact that its a crippled white man who rescues the natives; the whole "white messiah" bit.

so i've heard...
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by A Thing of Eternity »

Yeah... in that respect... man there are a lot of movies like that! What's wrong with using brown people?! They look better anyways!
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The_Preacher
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by The_Preacher »

Bad argument. If this was a Bollywood production, it'd be a brown person. Since it's Western and Western society is predominated by whites, caters to whites and expects to earn much of its money from white audiences, the protagonist is white. That it is distributed worldwide and gets much of its revenues from non-white sources is irrelevant. I'm starting a rumour that all French movies are racist since the overwhelming majority of dialogue from their films is spoken in French and all other languages are sub-titled. It's a French conspiracy to adversely impact the vision of the rest of the world. See how easy to make a phoney extrapolation?

We're not talking rocket surgery here. It's brain science, people. There are better things to get worked up about than chasing racism in a Hollywood blockbuster.
If Frank Herbert were alive today he'd be spinning in his grave if he could see what they've done to his legacy.

I bought the very first prequel on Amazon as soon as it was available. God! I wouldn't wipe me arse with that trash! Never again, says I. Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by A Thing of Eternity »

Fair enough, it's a bit different with White people though because there are SO many movies like that, and we actually DID go out and conquor most of the world and portray ourselves as the liberators and saviours. White people are in a unique position when it comes to racism right now.

For the record I agree with you though, the whole thing is ridiculous I'm just saying that I can understand why the idea popped into someone's head, that's all.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by Redstar »

Annalee Newitz, editor-in-chief of the sci-fi Web site io9.com, likened "Avatar" to the recent film "District 9," in which a white man accidentally becomes an alien and then helps save them, and 1984's "Dune," in which a white man becomes an alien Messiah.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by Lundse »

The_Preacher wrote:Sound racist to me? Not bloody likely. Sounds like what's happened again and again throughout human history.
History has a wellknown racist bias. Why don't people rail against that, instead of the fiction inspired by history.
Redstar wrote:
Annalee Newitz ... [:]...1984's "Dune," in which a white man becomes an alien Messiah.
Fremen were aliens! Does anyone else have the shivers, thinking about the directions in which KJA could run with that? We are talking another 15-15,000 books!
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Vatican Blasts Avatar

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Vatican says 'Avatar' is no masterpiece (AP)
Tue Jan 12, 2010, 3:49 pm EST


VATICAN CITY - "Avatar" is wooing audiences worldwide with visually dazzling landscapes and nature-loving blue creatures. But the Vatican is no easy crowd to please.

The Vatican newspaper and radio station are criticizing James Cameron's 3-D blockbuster for flirting with the idea that worship of nature can replace religion — a notion the pope has warned against. They call the movie a simplistic and sappy tale, despite its awe-inspiring special effects.

"Not much behind the images" was how the Vatican newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, summed it up in a headline.

As the second highest-grossing movie ever, "Avatar" is challenging the record set by Cameron's previous movie "Titanic."

Generally it has been critically acclaimed and is touted as a leading Oscar contender.

Bolivia's first indigenous president, Evo Morales, has praised "Avatar" for what he calls its message of saving the environment from exploitation. But the movie also has drawn a number of critical voices. Some American conservative bloggers have decried its anti-militaristic message; a small group of people have said the movie contains racist themes.

To Vatican critics, the alien extravaganza is just "bland."

Cameron "tells the story without going deep into it, and ends up falling into sappiness," said L'Osservatore Romano. Vatican Radio called it "rather harmless" but said it was no heir to sci-fi masterpieces of the past.

Most significantly, much of the Vatican criticism was directed at the movie's central theme of man vs. nature.

L'Osservatore said the film "gets bogged down by a spiritualism linked to the worship of nature." Similarly, Vatican Radio said it "cleverly winks at all those pseudo-doctrines that turn ecology into the religion of the millennium."

"Nature is no longer a creation to defend, but a divinity to worship," the radio said.

Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi said that while the movie reviews are just that — film criticism, not theological pronouncements — they do reflect Pope Benedict XVI's views on the dangers of turning nature into a "new divinity."

Benedict has often spoken about the need to protect the environment, earning the nickname of "green pope." But he also has balanced that call with a warning against turning environmentalism into neo-paganism.

In a recent World Day of Peace message, the pontiff warned against any notions that equate human beings with other living things in the name of a "supposedly egalitarian vision." He said such notions "open the way to a new pantheism tinged with neo-paganism, which would see the source of man's salvation in nature alone, understood in purely naturalistic terms."

The pope explained in the message that while many experience tranquillity and peace when coming into contact with nature, a correct relationship between man and the environment should not lead to "absolutizing nature" or "considering it more important than the human person."

The Vatican newspaper occasionally likes to comment in its cultural pages on movies or pop culture icons, as it did recently about "The Simpsons" or U2. In one famous instance, several Vatican officials spoke out against "The Da Vinci Code."

In this case, the reviews came out after a red-carpet "Avatar" preview held in Rome just a stone's throw from St. Peter's Square. The movie — which has made more than $1.3 billion at box offices worldwide, partly boosted by higher 3-D ticket prices — will be released Friday in Italy.

"So much stupefying, enchanting technology, but few genuine emotions," said L'Osservatore in one of three articles devoted to "Avatar" in its Sunday editions. The plotline of aliens who live on a distant unspoiled planet and the humans who want to pillage their resources is a universal theme that can be reminiscent of past colonizations and wars, the paper said. As such, it is easy to relate to it, but also unoriginal.

"Everything is reduced to an overly simple anti-imperialistic and anti-militaristic parable," it said.

In America, the big numbers and media hype have been accompanied by some controversy.

Blog posts, newspaper articles, tweets and YouTube videos have criticized the film, with some calling it "a fantasy about race told from the point of view of white people" and that it reinforces "the white Messiah fable." Cameron says the real theme is about respecting others' differences.

An LA Times blog noted that the movie "has inflamed the passions of right-wing bloggers and pundits."

"Cameron incensed many voices on the right by acknowledging of-the-moment messages about imperialism, greed, ecological disregard and corporate irresponsibility," it said. Anti-smoking lobbies have denounced the cigarette-puffing character played by Sigourney Weaver.

Back at the Vatican, the reviews did praise the groundbreaking visuals of the movie.

Vatican Radio said that "really never before have such surprising images been seen," while L'Osservatore said the movie's worth lies in its "extraordinary visual impact."
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by SandRider »

adults with imaginary friends are stupid
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by Freakzilla »

SandRider wrote:adults with imaginary friends are stupid
What's even worse is adults fighting over whos imaginary friend is better.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by TheDukester »

Redstar wrote:... the recent film "District 9," in which a white man accidentally becomes an alien and then helps save them ...
Hadn't seen it yet, so thanks much for the spoiler.

Really, I appreciate it. I'll just tell Netflix not to bother now.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by SandRider »

aww, c'mon now, you jest takin out your dis-likin of the boy there ....

I ain't seen the movie neither, and that ain't really a "spoiler", not this
long after release.

now, don't get me wrong, I'm with you on the bad taste that boy leaves
lyin around, but I gots to call "horseshit" on that attack.

and also, Rosebud is a sled.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by Freakzilla »

...and Darth Vader is Luke's father. :P
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by TheDukester »

For the record, I'm not usually one to call "spoiler" ... in fact, I more often take the opposite view. I've called people out many times for ridiculous spoiler accusations for material that is years old.

But, come on: this thing was just recently released on DVD and is doing great business. We're not talking about Vader here; we're talking a new release. There are lots of people like me who do most of their film viewing at home; for us, this movie is in its "first run."

This definitely isn't the end of the world, but it is a bit disappointing. No biggie, overall ... but still.

(edit: shortened speech)
Last edited by TheDukester on 13 Jan 2010 18:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by TheDukester »

TheDukester wrote:I'm also currently staying mostly clear of any Avatar talk ...
The irony, of course, is that this is an Avatar thread ... :lol:

I'd best clear out. It would be own fault if I stumbled onto a spoiler here.

(Oh, and the ship sinks. Ha! Payback!)
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by The_Preacher »

Two things: one) don't bother seeing Avatar if you're not going to see it in a 3-d theatre, unless you have a 3-d TV and it's released in that format; two) the District 9 spoiler isn't a massive revalation or a show-stopper.

If you want to avoid spoilers, lock yourself in your home and don't embrace the world because you never know where they're going to come from. For instance, I once had the key element of The Sixth Sense spoiled for me when reading an online review of The Whole Nine Yards and the review stated words to the effect of Bruce Willis' character in 9 yds was as dead as his character in 6th Sense. (Uh oh... I just revealed a spoiler from an old movie... faux pas?)

My advice... get over it quickly.
If Frank Herbert were alive today he'd be spinning in his grave if he could see what they've done to his legacy.

I bought the very first prequel on Amazon as soon as it was available. God! I wouldn't wipe me arse with that trash! Never again, says I. Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by Freakzilla »

Sorry about your spoiled Sixth Sense experience. That was one of the best suprise endings I've ever seen. :(
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by TheDukester »

The_Preacher wrote:... because you never know where they're going to come from.
I understand that. But it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to get upset about it. Those are two different things.

Most of the spoilers I've run into over the years have been my own fault. I'd say something like, "Well, I'm just going to have a peek at this LOST site ..." and, boom!, there's some idiot posting about Locke really being Kate's father.** But I've learned to avoid them over the years — for instance, I fanatically avoided BSG sites during the run-up to the big conclusion — which is why it can be doubly-disappointing to run into one when it's not my fault.

I say again: whatever. I'll get over it.

** I'm kidding. I just totally made that up.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by Ampoliros »

What sixth sense spoiler? Bruce Willis DIES IN THE FIRST SCENE.

I think I should start a club for people who were astonished at how many people thought this was a surprise ending. I thought that was how the movie was supposed to work.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by TheDukester »

I had a buddy back then who tell people, "Bruce Willis is a woman!" And they'd get all mad at him twice: once for giving out a "spoiler" ... and once more when they later realized he was totally jacking them around.
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Re: Avatar Racist?!?!

Post by Robspierre »

Freakzilla wrote:
SandRider wrote:adults with imaginary friends are stupid
What's even worse is adults fighting over whos imaginary friend is better.

What is even worse is adults fighting over who's imaginary friend has the bigger dick.

Rob
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