DUNE DISCUSSION FORUM FOR ORTHODOX HERBERTARIANS
http://www.jacurutu.com/
Ampoliros wrote:Started reading "The Metabarons" that he did with Moebius. Its rather bizarre, but very well done and the art is incredible. I'm amazed I'd never heard of it before, or that its not more widely distributed.
Maybe he read it at some point during production, but they chose not to mention that to preserve the idea of Jodorowsky's spiritual connection to the project.Freakzilla wrote:That's also what I heard from another friend who saw the documentarty.trang wrote:What was most astonishing to me, at least from what I saw, He never read the books. How does he have dreams and passion on such a level without reading the books? IF I'm wrong here I apologize.
But I swear that I read somewhere that he read it in one night.
Freak is correct:Redstar wrote:Maybe he read it at some point during production, but they chose not to mention that to preserve the idea of Jodorowsky's spiritual connection to the project.Freakzilla wrote:That's also what I heard from another friend who saw the documentarty.trang wrote:What was most astonishing to me, at least from what I saw, He never read the books. How does he have dreams and passion on such a level without reading the books? IF I'm wrong here I apologize.
But I swear that I read somewhere that he read it in one night.
http://bradshawofthefuture.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/jodorowskys-dune-movie-you-will-never_03.html wrote: In a lucid dream God told me: "Your next film will be Dune." I hadn't read the book. I woke up at 6:00 in the morning, and like an alcoholic waiting for the bar to open, I waited for the bookstore to open so I could buy the book. I read it without pausing to eat or drink. I finished reading it at exactly midnight on the same day.
And yet they never indicate this in the doc, right?DuneFishUK wrote:Freak is correct:
http://bradshawofthefuture.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/jodorowskys-dune-movie-you-will-never_03.html wrote: In a lucid dream God told me: "Your next film will be Dune." I hadn't read the book. I woke up at 6:00 in the morning, and like an alcoholic waiting for the bar to open, I waited for the bookstore to open so I could buy the book. I read it without pausing to eat or drink. I finished reading it at exactly midnight on the same day.
I haven't seen it but this was the second time I've seen someone that has indicate that they were lead to believe he didn't.Redstar wrote:And yet they never indicate this in the doc, right?DuneFishUK wrote:Freak is correct:
http://bradshawofthefuture.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/jodorowskys-dune-movie-you-will-never_03.html wrote: In a lucid dream God told me: "Your next film will be Dune." I hadn't read the book. I woke up at 6:00 in the morning, and like an alcoholic waiting for the bar to open, I waited for the bookstore to open so I could buy the book. I read it without pausing to eat or drink. I finished reading it at exactly midnight on the same day.
Ya think?Ampoliros wrote:And it would have been more Dune than the hack.
Agreed. Though judging from the script summary for Jodo's Dune, I'm surprised that he never read the book. There are differences, but he still has got the main idea of the story down, and planned to use both the Fenrings in the movie. (Still don't know why Chani is never mentioned, or sketched, for the film). Here's the script summary from the Dune Info site (the site that still pays homage to the Lynch Dune, as well as the other Dune films).Ampoliros wrote:There is no doubt that the movie he would have made would have been Dune in name only, but it still would have been a hell of a film.
And it would have been more Dune than the hack.
Summary of the Script
by
Alexandro Jodorowsky
[Translated from the summary of the script that appeared in the Press Kit.]
Already 20,000 years ago
that the Earth burst...
Man conquered the Galaxy,
but he realizes
that he still lives on an Island:
the Galaxy itself is encircled by
an insuperable Magnetic Wall.
No one could cross it.
Not having anything more
to discover,
to conquer,
Man delivers himself completely
to the pleasure,
give his capacity to machines
and degenerates in the luxury.
Rising generation,
all the Genetic Monsters,
Fact the Revolution counters the Machines,
destroyed the gigantic
Host Computer,
burns the flags,
symbol of the Constitutions of each Planet
and organizes
The Large Galactic Company of Plain Planets.
Never use atomic weapons.
A Universal Law
Prohibition to forever
build machines which
replace the work of the men.
The computers are substituted
by Mutants
with hypertrophied brain.
Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV.
One creates a Neo-Medieval Company.
An Emperor is crowned,
One creates a Senate of Planets
which has the capacity to elect and of détrôner
Emperors.
The value of money is restored.
One discovers on a Planet lost
with the borders of the Galaxy,
Dune,
a kind of Mushroom,
who prolongs the Life during several centuries
and allows to see
the Future.
Immediately this Planet becomes the
center attention of the Galactic Empire
and, in the same way that exists today
the Petrol-dollars
over there creates
Mushroom-Dollars,
the Spice.
To gather the valuable Spice,
is very difficult: Dune is a sand Planet
without a drop of water
with hurricanes which blow at more than
800 kilometers hour, and,
Giant Worms of,
400 meters length,
true guardians of Spice;
These worms devour the machines which try
to extract the precious substance.
The Senate consists of
Major houses and of
Minor houses.
The Major Houses are in small number,
but have the economic capacity:
one of these Major Houses comes down
from former Chinese, the second the old Slavic ones,
and the third of former Americans.
The Houses Minor in great number
but very poor and are divided;
the single person able to make a success of the Union
of the Minor Houses is an honest,
sincere and revolutionary man:
The Duke Leto.
The Emperor, passing in addition to
capacities of the Galactic Senate,
organize an enormous Spice smuggling
with the complicity of one of the Major Houses.
Knowing that the Duke Leto discovered
this smuggling, the Emperor
sends him to Dune as Governor...
Helped by a commercial group
which dominates the Banks and
has the Monopoly of the Space Voyages:
The Spacing Guild,
the Emperor causes an
economic blockade which isolates
the Duke Leto in this infernal Planet
called Dune.
Jessica,
the concubine of the Duke Leto
belongs to a Secret society of Women:
Bene Gesserit,
who, using
psychophysiological and magic
drives make genetic experiments to produce
a Messiah.
The only inhabitants of Dune are
the Fremen
People divided, warlike,
who can remain in the desert by drinking
four water drops per day.
They use a clothing that they
never remove: Stillsuits
that transforms physical waste
into water, which they drink.
Fremen have the "white" of the eyes
completely Blue.
The Duke Leto lives in the hope
to reinforce his army with Fremen.
But these wild people do not understand
the political ideas of the Duke.
They admire it but do not follow it.
Blockade of Dune
is fatal to the Duke.
Helped by the Major Houses
and the colonists who exploit the desert,
the Emperor assassinates the Duke
and destroys his army.
Jessica and her son
Paul
succeed in fleeing and survive
the dangers of the desert.
They join the Fremen
and nourish Spices.
Thanks to a Legend
spread by the Bene Gesserit
among Fremen announcing
the arrival of a Messiah
Jessica and Paul
become the Religious Chiefs of the Community.
At the Beginning, Paul was wary
of the plans of his mother, but
thanks to Spice, he undergoes
a Vision
of his Capacities and realises
that he is really
the awaited Messiah.
Paul, while mixing political and religion, becomes the
Divine Chief of the Fremen.
At their head, he destroys the galactic armies.
He discovers that the Spice cannot grow,
without the Giant Worms.
He invents a method to eliminate the Worms.
Having the capacity to control Spice,
he becomes Master of Spice.
Being a Master of Spice,
He becomes Master of the Galaxy.
Paul, New Emperor,
leaves in a Galactic Crusade
to change, once more, Civilization.
He succeeds, with all the human ones, to form
a Collective Being
and releases Man
of the prison, Space and Time.
Not to spoil the documentary for you, but Jodorowsky points out that while he didn't respect Dune, he loved it. He doesn't for one moment pretend that this movie was going to bring Frank Herbert's vision to life. It was going to be Alejandro Jodorowsky's Dune, inspired by Frank Herbert. That credit being a token of respect from one artist to another, not a fig leaf to cover his own lack of inspiration and originality.Freakzilla wrote:Ya think?
Obviosly, "inspired by" in the loosest of terms.Naïve mind wrote:It was going to be Alejandro Jodorowsky's Dune, inspired by Frank Herbert.
Whatever. De Laurentis and Lynch at least had a lucid understanding of the book.The big Elephant in the room in this documentary is the De Laurentiis family. Two of their movies are singled out as 'stealing' ideas from Jodorowsky's storyboards, and, of course, they produced the 1984 Dune movie, helmed by David Lynch, who at the time was just about as controversial as Jodorowsky was in the 1970s...
Isn't the key word "respect" here? I haven't seen the doc. but if J. didn't respect Dune it means to me that J has become just a name without meaning.Naïve mind wrote:Not to spoil the documentary for you, but Jodorowsky points out that while he didn't respect Dune, he loved it. He doesn't for one moment pretend that this movie was going to bring Frank Herbert's vision to life. It was going to be Alejandro Jodorowsky's Dune, inspired by Frank Herbert. That credit being a token of respect from one artist to another, not a fig leaf to cover his own lack of inspiration and originality.Freakzilla wrote:Ya think?
The big Elephant in the room in this documentary is the De Laurentiis family. Two of their movies are singled out as 'stealing' ideas from Jodorowsky's storyboards, and, of course, they produced the 1984 Dune movie, helmed by David Lynch, who at the time was just about as controversial as Jodorowsky was in the 1970s...
De Laurentiis also paid Frank Herbert a million bucks (I think) just to try to write a screenplay (Frank admitted that he wasn't able to) then kept him on as a sort of consultant. Maybe that was just to prevent him from denouncing the movie outright, but I don't think so. DeLaurentiis' sci-fi movies got a lot of crap in the 80s and 90s for having shitty special effects, and not taking themselves too seriously. In retrospect, their movies seem daring and quirky.Freakzilla wrote: Whatever. De Laurentis and Lynch at least had a lucid understanding of the book.
OMG, yes... comparitively, Lynch is LUCID to Jodorowsky! And I hate the Lynch movie.
I myself watched it because my parents had recorded the Alan Smithee cut which was shown on TV sometime (we ended up recording over it, sadly). It took me years to find that cut again from a distributor called Revok, and then many years later to get in on the official DVD. In between that time, I had to settle on the theatrical cut VHS, which was far shorter than what I remembered. Admittedly, it wasn't until the theatrical cut when I was older that I understood the characters. When I was younger, I was fascinated by how the characters were behaving towards each other, how they changed, and the whole experience felt like some epic dream haunted by the imagery of the giant worms. It took me eons to understand why Paul was obsessed with the worms, and why they figured into the story. The Lynch version may be far from perfect, but God damn it all, I owe it lot for getting me interested, and encouraging me to read the book. I haven't watched it in awhile, but I still count it as one of those films which had an impact on me. The only other person I know who finds it awesome is my neighbor, who is also a huge 2001: A Space Odyssey fan.Naive Mind wrote: Lynch Dune was a failure, and today it is mostly forgotten; people watch it either to laugh at it, or to specifically enjoy the parts that were good, or because they love the novel.
Herbert did a write a screenplay, and De Laurentis hated it. He probably wrote a short one, without much dramatic umph to it. He didn't need to write the screenplay: he should of just highlighted all the essential scenes and dialogue, and give it to the screenwriter like James Clavell did with Shogun. Or, they could just have used the book as a guide while filming, like Kubrick did with A Clockwork Orange or Barry Lyndon.Naive Mind wrote: De Laurentiis also paid Frank Herbert a million bucks (I think) just to try to write a screenplay (Frank admitted that he wasn't able to) then kept him on as a sort of consultant. Maybe that was just to prevent him from denouncing the movie outright, but I don't think so. DeLaurentiis' sci-fi movies got a lot of crap in the 80s and 90s for having shitty special effects, and not taking themselves too seriously. In retrospect, their movies seem daring and quirky.
I sensed that too from the script summary and from his articles. I just wonder whether Chani was supposed to be in Jodorowsky's vision at all, despite Jodo having both Count and Lady Fenring and every other character in it.Naive Mind wrote: Oh, Jodorowsky read the novel alright, that much is clear. His understanding of the characters' personalities is spot-on, for example. He just chose to ignore much of the narrative.
I wonder why that was the case, because De Laurentis's films are nothing like what Jodorowsky envisioned. But Jodo has gotten off kilter before in his suppositions, like when he thought Star Wars resembled his style.Naive Mind wrote: The big Elephant in the room in this documentary is the De Laurentiis family. Two of their movies are singled out as 'stealing' ideas from Jodorowsky's storyboards, and, of course, they produced the 1984 Dune movie, helmed by David Lynch, who at the time was just about as controversial as Jodorowsky was in the 1970s...
I will commission you to write a Dune screenplay, my Emperor Freakzilla! The Dune fans are in need of your leadership!Freakzilla wrote:Look, as founder of this site I must say...
* I am glad that someone wanted to make a Dune movie.
* I thank the Maker every day that it wasn't Jodorowsky.
I appreciate his effort but he's from all sources read the book at least 100% LESS THAN ME, or at most once less than you.
It may have been a fanciful folly if made but it would have had nothing to do with DUNE.
I was about to post the same article. Star Wars really did ruin the chances of anyone making good, pulp science fiction in film. All we got out of it was some great effects and a poor example for what a film/franchise should look like.Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:As for Laurentis' films themselves: his taste in what he thinks counts as great filmmaking is admittedly confusing. My brother and I used to joke that the reason that he thinks Flash Gordon is better than Star Wars is because it's got more Italian pizazz to it. In fact, here's an article which discusses many of his weird decisions for that film.Naive Mind wrote:De Laurentiis also paid Frank Herbert a million bucks (I think) just to try to write a screenplay (Frank admitted that he wasn't able to) then kept him on as a sort of consultant. Maybe that was just to prevent him from denouncing the movie outright, but I don't think so. DeLaurentiis' sci-fi movies got a lot of crap in the 80s and 90s for having shitty special effects, and not taking themselves too seriously. In retrospect, their movies seem daring and quirky.
http://io9.com/the-weirdest-things-you- ... 1571016187
Jodorowsky is/was a bit of a hypocrite. He was always accusing others of plagiarizing his work when he himself has stated his own ideas came from the collective unconscious.Naive Mind wrote:The big Elephant in the room in this documentary is the De Laurentiis family. Two of their movies are singled out as 'stealing' ideas from Jodorowsky's storyboards, and, of course, they produced the 1984 Dune movie, helmed by David Lynch, who at the time was just about as controversial as Jodorowsky was in the 1970s...
I'm too much of a purist, I'd write it just like the book and it'd probably suck.Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:I will commission you to write a Dune screenplay, my Emperor Freakzilla! The Dune fans are in need of your leadership!
I think we can see a sort of meaning behind a comment like this, which is to say that an artist cannot merely copy another but must add his own creativity and genius to the mix. Nevertheless I was the only person in the movie theatre to laugh my ass off out loud when I heard this comment, as it is quite refreshing to hear an artist really admit this. Might we have wished for the same candor from KJA and Brian? But even so the pride in the remark is telling because I do think that as a teller of someone else's story one must be equal parts master and servant; to master one's own vision but to serve the material and its intent.Jodorowsky's Dune script wrote:I changed the end of the book, evidently! In the book, it's a continuation. The planet never changed. Is not awake, with a cosmic consciousness. It's not a Messiah, the planet. I did that. It's different. It was my Dune. When you make a picture, you must not respect the novel. It's like you get married, no? You go with the wife, white, the woman is white...you take the woman, if you respect the woman, you will never have child. You need to open the costume and to...To rape the bride. And then you will have your picture. I was raping Frank Herbert, raping, like this! But with love, with love.
