Dune Library, Dune khabars ? Truths of Dune (audiobook,1979)

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Dune Library, Dune khabars ? Truths of Dune (audiobook,1979)

Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 11 Sep 2011 07:10

THE TRUTHS OF DUNE "FEAR IS THE MIND KILLER"
read by the author Frank Herbert 1979, Caedmon. [partial transcript]


The Books of Dune, vast libraries of them indicated in the quotations which precede the chapters
and in the Appendix fulfill many purposes. Libraries represent human endurance, our most
profound, time-spanning dream. They are our immortality made symbol. There is also the fact that
the Princess Irulan dominates the writing of the Books of Dune. This emphasizes her role in the
Imperium, just as a similar function is preserved for Harq Al-Ada in the Children of Dune. The
wealth of literature indicates a rich history surrounded by tradition, and myth, by academic
fascination, and increasing analysis, for which I give you an old Fremen saying quoted in Dune
Messiah
:

"Truth suffers from too much analysis."

But you can follow the developments through the books of the Dune trilogy and, I hope, gain
insights which would not be available to you without these works. There is no doubt that they are
numerous; more than 75 titles are listed. And the most prominent is the Manual of Maud'Dib, from
which we take this, our starting point:

"A beginning is a time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct;
this every sister of the Bene Gesserit knows. To begin you study of the life of Maud'Dib,
then, take care that you first place him in his time; born in the 57th year of the Padishah
Emperor, Shaddam IV. And take the most special care that you locate Maud'Dib in his
place, the planet Arrakis. Do not be deceived by the fact that he was born on Caladan,
and lived his first 15 years there; Arrakis, the planet known as Dune, is forever his
place."


With that warning in mind, we will begin with three items. First, a riddle of Arrakis:

"Challenge: Have you seen the Preacher?
Response: I have seen a sandworm.
Challenge: What about that sandworm?
Response: It gives us the air we breathe.
Challenge: Then why do we destroy its' land?
Response: Because Shai-Hulud, the sandworm deified, commands it."


Second, a quotation from the Tleilaxu God Book:

....

And thirdly, this from the Mentat Handbook:

....

Maud'Dib says:

....

About Arrakis, he says:

....

And he adds:

....

Of his change from Caladan to Arrakis, Maud'Dib says:

....

Irulan writes of this young Paul Maud'Dib:

....

And Irulan describes him:

....

In the Commentaries, you find this:

....

Of his role as prophet, Irulan writes:

....

But Harq Al-Ada had these comments:

....

In the Mentat, Duncan Idaho said:

....

When came this ruler of men? Of his parentage? There is this from The Family Commentaries:

....

In A Child's History of Maud'Dib you find:

....

And, an anonymous chronicler penned these lines at the Dukes' shrine:

....

Irulan writes of Maud'Dibs' mother:

....

The Lady Jessica was a Bene Gesserit sister and her daughter had this to say about the Bene
Gesserit:

....

This is how Irulan reports on Alia, Maud'Dibs' sister:

....

Like father, like son, then; so it is with Leto II, son of Paul Maud'Dib. It is for Leto II to live all the
lives within him, all the lives of his ancestors. And he says:

....

Of Leto II's holy metamorphosis it is written:

....

And this is Leto's vow:

....

Thus, it can be written in The Proverbs of Maud'Dib:

....

When Maud'Dib won his victory and his Fremen raged through the Empire, the character of that
Empire changed. You see this when a poor historian, condemned to death, is interviewed by a
priest-follower of Maud'Dib. These are excerpts from the death-cell interview with Brunso of Ix:

....

Maud'Dib says of this:

....

It is a paradox, as Maud'Dib notes. Deep in the human consciousness is a pervasive need for a
logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic. He adds:

....

Judging this limit is the true artistry of government; misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law
cannot be a tool of vengeance, never a hostage nor a fortification against the martyrs it has
created; you cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. Good government
never depends upon laws, but upon the personal qualities of those who govern. The machinery of
government is always subordinate to the will of those who administer that machinery. The most
important tool of government, therefore, is the method of choosing leaders. Harq Al-Ada's
comment on the Butljerian Jihad
is pertinent here:

....

And the Instruction Manual of the Missionaria Protectiva adds another pertinent note:

....

And even are the words from the Workbook of Liet Kynes, first planetologist of Arrakis:

....

Although he uses laws and legal orders to rule, Maud'Dib sees this in terms of energy. He says:

....

And he says:

....

Maud'Dib says:

....

The roots of such ideas are to be found in the Bene Gesserit teachings. As witness, these
quotations:

....

Or this:

....

And the Bene Gesserit Panoplia Prophetica says:

....

Maud'Dib says:

....

He adds:

....

Maud'Dib often appears both cynical and wise. He says:

....

Sometimes Maud'Dib rages.

....

Sometimes he quotes the Bene Gesserit Litany against Fear:

....

Maud'Dib writes to the Landsraad Ruling Council:

....

And to CHOAM, the interplanetary corporation which is the economic arm of the Empire, he writes:

....

He asks:

....

And in the next breath, he says:

....

In despair, Maud'Dib cries out:

....

Now what brought the Atreides family to Dune? The Fremen, and the spice melange - the
exhalation of the sandworm, both geriatric, and an igniter of prophecy. Here is what is written
about melange in the Pendant Heresy
:

....

It is no wonder that is called the Pendant Heresy.
Of the Fremen, Maud'Dib says:

....

Maud'Dibs' son is speaking of the Fremen when he says:

....

A Bene Gesserit report says:

....

Liet Kynes is quoted by Harq Al-Ada:

....

Harq Al-Ada writes:

....

And Stilgar, the Fremen Naib says:

....

Even the Preacher speaks to the Fremen tragedy:

....

There are clues to the mysteries of the Fremen and Maud'Dib in the Songs of Dune. Listen to their
words:

....

And:

....

Or this:

....

And this, from The Moon Falls Down:

....

There is the dirge for Jamis:

....

And these four lines:

....

Or these:

....

And a children's ditty:

....

Or a love song:

....

Or a Fremen hearth song:

....

I should add a Tlielaxu epigram:

....

Maud'Dib recognized that atrocities had been committed in his name, and that more would come.
In this is an echo in these words from the Apocrypha:

....

On all these matters, the Commission of Ecumenical Translators comments:

....

Maud'Dib appears to be saying something similar when he speaks to his Fedaykin:

....

As we began with three items, we should conclude with three items. First, the Gholas' Hymn:

....

Second, Stilgars' comment on the travail of Maud'Dib:

....

And finally, from the Kizarite Creed:

"We say of Maud'Dib that he has gone on a journey into that land where we walk without
footprints."




In-Universe or In-Real World POV ?


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      Re: Dune Library, Dune khabars ? Truths of Dune (audiobook,1979)

      Postby SandChigger » 11 Sep 2011 10:41

      By no means the first.

      RW author discussing elements of his works as if real... mixed real-world POV re in-universe elements? :D

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      Re: Dune Library, Dune khabars ? Truths of Dune (audiobook,1979)

      Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 11 Sep 2011 11:34

      SandChigger wrote:By no means the first.

      RW author discussing elements of his works as if real... mixed real-world POV re in-universe elements? :D


      "Multiple-viewpoint" or "Switching POV" ? :ugeek:

      Ampoliros wrote:Duniverse Prime: Frank's 6 books. This Duniverse only considers the original books, from the point of view that they are not historical narratives, but truthful representations of events.

      Archival BBC interview with FH (83-second) BBC1's Breakfast Time programme [circa 7-14 dec. 1984] wrote:I was almost an historian. I seriously considered being an historian, and while I was in the throes of this decision.



      Truths of Dune - Liner Notes (excerpts) 1979

        When I was a small child and discovered the wonders of a library, I thought I had found fairyland. (...)
        As I grew into my teens, libraries became even more important. Now, they were the fountainhead of human wisdom. (...)
        Then I grew even older. I discovered faults in books. I nurtured in libraries my own disagreements with what others had written. (...)
        Finally, there came a day when my own writings entered that stream. Yes, a stream. A library is not a static place but a region of currents and eddies and strange flows. (...)
        Libraries represent human endurance, persistence in the face of obstacles. Libraries are still our most profound time-spanning dream, our immortality translated into moving symbols.

        This is the genesis of the Books of Dune, those vast libraries indicated in the quotations which precede the chapters and the Appendices. I want that library to exist in your imagination while you are reading the Dune Trilogy. It must have substance and breadth and depth. It must point to the labors of countless writers scribbling in their garrets and offices and libraries. It is the human mind at work with the wonder of the mind.
        We have been doing this for a long time, and I am saying that we will continue to do this. (...)

        There is a continuity here which I am extending into the futures of Dune. There will be libraries and there will be books. The cornucopia endures.
        Such a wealth of literature points unmistakeably to the rich history of Dune's civilization. It is a history well seated in a culture filled with tradition and myth.
        Throughout the Trilogy more than seventy-five such books are listed. It was my desire that you augment the story development through selected quotations from the Library of this future. I wanted you to gain insights which would not be available without those works.
        In the first book, everything is Irulan's doing. She is the Princess of the Pen and the words flow from her. This emphasizes her unique role in the Imperium, just as a similar function is reserved for Harq al-Ada in Children of Dune. The one exception to Irulan's authorship in Dune is to be found in the index, the precede by Pardot Kynes, first planetologist of Arrakis. That solitary representation is like a searchlight cast on him.
        As the story progresses into the second and third books of the Trilogy, you find more and more involvement of academe, an increased richness of analysis. For which I give you an old Fremen saying quoted in Dune Messiah:

        Truth suffers from too much analysis.

        There's no stopping it, though. As well play King Knute trying to stay the tide. And that is one of the charms in the evolution of our infatuation with libraries. First, the unquestioning love; next, admiration and appreciation; then, the desire to join this marvellous game, to improve upon it.

        In the Dune Trilogy, all the major functionaries are represented in the Library you glimpse through the precedes. The Manual of Muad'dib dominates, as it should. But there's also a Child's History, The Collected Legends, the Songs, even a Dictionary. Later, there are Proverbs, The Stilgar Chronicle, Fremen Sayings and Tleilaxu Epigrams. There is a Book of Diatribes (all is not sweetness and light). You will find Irulan's secret reports to the Bene Gesserit (all is not open and candid).
        These libraries represent words and more words, thoughts and more thoughts, reflections and outbursts. The Ghola Hymn and the Qizarate Creed share space with lectures to the War College and a work on the Butlerian Jihad.
        Where do such riches commonly occur ? In a renaissance. And that's the most important message of libraries -- no matter what we endure, humans will reflect on what we do and will put those reflections into words. Here is the mirror by which we know ourselves.




      SparkNotes: Dune, Frank Herbert / by Jason Clarke wrote:The narrator maintains a third-person perspective through most of the novel. The narrator is omniscient and provides insight into the thoughts and plans of certain characters while also giving clues to the novel’s social, cultural, and political background. The narration sometimes switches to first-person to reveal specific characters’ inner feelings and motivations.
      Although Paul is Dune’s main character, Herbert shifts perspective freely from character to character within a single page or even within a few paragraphs. We read the reverend mother’s thoughts one moment, and Jessica’s thoughts the next moment. Herbert’s narrative technique provides us with an extraordinary amount of information, which is enriching, but also confusing. His narrative is flooded with countless names and concepts.
      The technique becomes more familiar as the novel progresses. Eventually, Herbert allows us to know what each character thinks and feels consistently. Herbert’s tactic provides as much information as possible about the characters and their world, but it removes much of the dramatic tension that might exist if we were less aware of the characters’ intentions and motivations.


      Timothy O'Reilly, FH, Ungar 1981 wrote:There is also consistent attention to who sees things. Point of view is always deliberate.
      "I treat the reader's eye as a camera," Herbert says. There may be a generalized view of a scene, which is followed more and more by a concentration on the area in which the action is going to happen. Finally the eye is brought in for close-ups, "a hand tapping on the table, or somebody's mouth chewing the food."
      In using such techniques, Herbert feels he is talking subliminally to the reader. The tremendous illusion of reality the novel conveys is the result of years of thought, layered so that only the most important details catch the eye, and others speak directly to the unconscious. At the same time, however, much that is ordinarily perceived subliminally is made conscious: the expression of emotion in nonverbal gesture, colors, smells, sounds are all noted and evaluated by the characters. Because details that took the author hours to assemble are absorbed by the reader in minutes, the fiction of hyperconsciousness takes on a kind of reality.
      The greatest demand that Herbert makes upon his readers is not on perception, however, but on judgment. Most science-fiction novels (except those that are overtly dystopian) are variations on the heroic success story. In the Dune trilogy, Herbert portrays a hero as convincing, noble, and inspiring as any real or mythic hero of the past. But as the trilogy progresses, he shows the consequences of heroic leadership, for Paul, his followers, and the planet. Anyone devoted to the heroic ideal stands to be devastated by the conclusions of the trilogy. Herbert demands that his readers look at their expectations, their heroes, and exactly what they mean by success.
      The structure of Herbert's novels reinforces this process. His plots tend to be extraordinarily complex. One level of action after another is introduced, any one of which seems enough to carry the story. Not until late in the novel is the tapestry being woven by these threads revealed. Even then Herbert does not employ a hierarchical organization, in which fact upon fact lead to some ultimate understanding, which is, in effect, the final reduction. The achievement of the meaning, the theme, the answer, while it appears to be an achievement of the broadest truth, is actually accomplished by the elimination of all the possibilities inherent in the original situation. Herbert doesn't write the traditional kind of story in which a hero overcomes the obstacles between here and happily everafter.
      Herbert's unwillingness to let himself be trapped into a final position gives his books an often frustrating ambiguity. It is just at this point that the books demand, if the reader is truly to understand them, that he begin to respond on unaccustomed levels. He must let go the need for certainty and absolute points of view. Herbert's novels demonstrate the action of principles as much as of character, and show the many sides of each situation with equal sympathy.


      Frank Herbert can't be truly omniscient. There is no truth, but truths ...

      Archival BBC interview with FH (83-second) BBC1's Breakfast Time programme [circa 7-14 dec. 1984] wrote:I was almost an historian. I seriously considered being an historian, and while I was in the throes of this decision.




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          Re: Dune Library, Dune khabars ? Truths of Dune (audiobook,1979)

          Postby SandChigger » 12 Sep 2011 08:58

          Is the narrator Frank Herbert?

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          Re: Dune Library, Dune khabars ? Truths of Dune (audiobook,1979)

          Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 12 Sep 2011 10:33

          SandChigger wrote:Is the narrator Frank Herbert?


          Good question. He is the author and the performer, yes, but I can't say " Frank Herbert is the narrator ". The nature of the narrator is not immediately clear. He could be a character within the story, ... why not ?

          Frank Herbert is the author of the liner notes, he wrote from the real world :

          There is a continuity here which I am extending into the futures of Dune. There will be libraries and there will be books. The cornucopia endures.
          Such a wealth of literature points unmistakeably to the rich history of Dune's civilization. It is a history well seated in a culture filled with tradition and myth.
          Throughout the Trilogy more than seventy-five such books are listed. It was my desire that you augment the story development through selected quotations from the Library of this future. I wanted you to gain insights which would not be available without those works.


          But, you can not identify with absolute certainty the narrator of the audiobook :


          • The Books of Dune, vast libraries of them indicated in the quotations which precede the chapters and in the Appendix fulfill many purposes. in-U/in-RW
          • There is also the fact that the Princess Irulan dominates the writing of the Books of Dune. in-U
          • Second, a quotation from the Tleilaxu God Book in-U
          • just as a similar function is preserved for Harq Al-Ada in the Children of Dune. in-RW (...or in-U)
          • for which I [WHO?] give you an old Fremen saying quoted in Dune Messiah in-U/in-RW
          • But you can follow the developments through the books of the Dune trilogy in-RW (...or in-U)
          • Maud'Dib says:..., he says: ...he adds: ... as Maud'Dib notes ... Maud'Dib says of this: ... in-RW ? (...or in-U)
          • Irulan writes... Irulan describes... This is how Irulan reports... Harq Al-Ada had these comments... In the Mentat, Duncan Idaho said: ...Harq Al-Ada's
            comment on ~~ is pertinent here: ... Liet Kynes is quoted by Harq Al-Ada: ...in-U
          • In ~~ you find this: ...There is this from ... an anonymous chronicler penned these lines ...it is written ... it can be written in ... These are excerpts from ... Here is what is written about melange in the Pendant Heresy: ... in-U


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              Re: Dune Library, Dune khabars ? Truths of Dune (audiobook,1979)

              Postby SandChigger » 12 Sep 2011 11:34

              J-V.T. Askaris wrote:He could be a character within the story, ... why not ?

              Could also be a tick on your ass. Any textual support whatsoever for supposing the narrator is a character? In the "Terminology" and other appendices there are references and stylistic clues indicating that the texts are in-universe. Where is there anything in the narrative texts of the books that does the same?

              Where are you going with this?
              I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

              I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

              I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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              Re: Dune Library, Dune khabars ? Truths of Dune (audiobook,1979)

              Postby A Thing of Eternity » 12 Sep 2011 13:14

              I have this on vinyl, FH does read it in a really weird way that is almost in-universe.
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              Re: Dune Library, Dune khabars ? Truths of Dune (audiobook,1979)

              Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 12 Sep 2011 13:46

              A Thing of Eternity wrote:almost in-universe.


              Exactly. That's what I intended to write about. Caedmon Audiobooks' POV is often ambiguous. In-U & In-RW mixed together.


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                  Re: Dune Library, Dune khabars ? Truths of Dune (audiobook,1979)

                  Postby Freakzilla » 03 Aug 2012 05:51

                  Oh, no you did not just spam religion in my forum...
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                  Re: Dune Library, Dune khabars ? Truths of Dune (audiobook,1979)

                  Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 10 Jun 2016 10:03

                  SandChigger wrote:
                  J-V.T. Askaris wrote:He could be a character within the story, ... why not ?

                  Any textual support whatsoever for supposing the narrator is a character? In the "Terminology" and other appendices there are references and stylistic clues indicating that the texts are in-universe. Where is there anything in the narrative texts of the books that does the same?



                  Dune Messiah, chapter 01

                  God Emperor, chapter 02

                  God Emperor, chapter 03

                  God Emperor, chapter 09

                  God Emperor, chapter 11

                  God Emperor, chapter 54


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