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Robspierre
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Robspierre » 08 May 2011 18:03

Dukester, I'm the same way, he is incoherent, obtuse, and dumber than a bucket of rocks. No wonder he is one of KJA's biggest fans. Probably jerks off every time Keith talks to him.
"ZOMGSOOOOOOOOOPERRAWESOMEAUTHORKEVINJANDERSONTALKSTOMEI'MSOMEBODY!

Stuffs entire folded pizza in his mouth not bothering to chew. Orgasms.

Rob

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inhuien
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby inhuien » 09 May 2011 13:45

Robspierre wrote:Stuffs entire folded pizza in his mouth not bothering to chew. Orgasms.


That is the weirdest form of auto-erotica I've heard of, these gaspers are getting clever.
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Hunchback Jack
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Hunchback Jack » 12 May 2011 11:51

So, at the risk of being shouted down, I must admit that I think the parody reviews kind of backfired.

Yes, they were clever, but I think a couple of things blunted their effectiveness:
1) we had a member here contribute to the collection, which meant the "shill" accusation had some (if minor) validity
2) regardless of whether a review is a joke or a shill review, it still games the Amazon review system, or at least abuses it.

HBJ
"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
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Ampoliros
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Ampoliros » 12 May 2011 13:53

I think they were good for one thing: They show that Conway is as much a fanatic as SC is, maybe more.

I mean Chigger actually stops to think what he's saying, and then doesn't try to pass it off as a joke, ha ha I was playing along kinda crap.
And the OH actually have a point to our arguments. EDIT: I think what I should say is that our beloved Chigger is an OH True Believer, and Conway is a KJA fanboy. The difference being that IF* Brian and KJA actually wrote something worthy of the Dune Legacy, even the OH would be able to say so whereas there is absolutely nothing that KJA could write and label "of DUNE" that Conway would not try to defend.

That being said, yeah the joke went much further than I intended it to go, but the discussion shows to anyone from the outside (that reads it) that it was meant to be humorous.

You are right though that it shows how easy it is to blatantly and truly shill for a book on Amazon.



* I know, I laughed too. And I'm not saying that all would be forgiven, only that if...sorry

AHAHHAHAHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

if they did write something worthy of DUNE, we could admit it. A safe bet, seeing as how they never will.
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Lundse
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Lundse » 12 May 2011 17:46

Hunchback Jack wrote:So, at the risk of being shouted down, I must admit that I think the parody reviews kind of backfired.

Yes, they were clever, but I think a couple of things blunted their effectiveness:
1) we had a member here contribute to the collection, which meant the "shill" accusation had some (if minor) validity
2) regardless of whether a review is a joke or a shill review, it still games the Amazon review system, or at least abuses it.


I do agree with 1 to some degree. The reviews are obvious jokes, anyone not getting that is too daft to read a 1-5 star system, let alone a whole book. But the aggregated rating does not reflect this. So yeah, kind of problematic.
The aggregated rating, and 2, however, only make sense in so far as there is a review system to game. There is, but to me is seems already broken. I have seen too much abuse there to take it seriously, so to some degree, taking a piss at it's expense and detriment is OK by me. That is a bit arrogant, but since Amazon is not really doing anything to play fair or assuage any fears that the system is not fair, I am not losing any sleep over it.


BTW, I got a huge laugh and unearned surge of pride over the reviews, and as soon as a get a bunch of fan Tshirts printed up, or start a superstars-of-sell-out-philosophy-writing seminars up, complimentary copies are definitely going out to you both :-)

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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby DuneFishUK » 13 May 2011 19:37

Arrived today - so far so interesting (although I did skip some of the Eugenics one due to mild hackstench) :?

Hunchback Jack wrote:So, at the risk of being shouted down, I must admit that I think the parody reviews kind of backfired.

Yes, they were clever, but I think a couple of things blunted their effectiveness:
1) we had a member here contribute to the collection, which meant the "shill" accusation had some (if minor) validity
2) regardless of whether a review is a joke or a shill review, it still games the Amazon review system, or at least abuses it.

HBJ

When the time comes and the joke has run it's course (sooner or later) the OPs should archive them in threads on Amazon and here before taking the actual review posting down and replace them with actual reviews. All art has a lifespan. If they are left up permanently then yes - bit of a backfire, but as temporary fun - no harm done :)

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Hunchback Jack
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Hunchback Jack » 13 May 2011 20:54

Yeah, sorry, I don't mean to ruin everyone's fun. I just hope that it doesn't turn out to be something the KJASFers can use against us later - rightly or wrongly - when we object to their shilling of Sistahs.

HBJ
"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
- Carl Sagan

I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
- Iain Banks

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Ampoliros
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Ampoliros » 14 May 2011 00:15

How can they? If anything we can just invite people to read the threads for what they are: fanboys jumping at some red meat only to find a squeaky toy. I really don't think we're the ones who look bad in those threads. Did anyone here who read my review take it serious, even for a second? No, and I'm quite surprised even Conway did.
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby SandChigger » 14 May 2011 00:18

Probably was suffering from a fat embolism in the brain. I'm sure he's passed it by now.
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby SandRider » 14 May 2011 00:57

despite a contribution by one of "our" folk, I'm inclined to be dead-set against this book;
I'll expect one (or several) of you who order(s) and actually read(s) the thing to post a blow-by-blow of
each submission before a final verdict, but any publication that puts Frank and McDune on the same level,
especially if the topic is "philosophy", is going to get a preliminary "horseshit" rubber-stamp from me ...

and while I am semi-pleased that the editor finally noticed and responded to my "discussion" post
and used the term "McDune", I'm still taken aback at "The Weirding Way of the Mentat", which
just has to rank high in the "Dumbest Fucking Things Dune-Fans Have Written" list ....
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SadisticCynic
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby SadisticCynic » 16 May 2011 12:46

Got mine today. :dance:
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Serkanner
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Serkanner » 16 May 2011 13:19

SadisticCynic wrote:Got mine today. :dance:


Barnes&Noble sure takes a long time to deliver it :( ... however I have more time reading Game of Thrones now and keep ahead of the TV series. :D
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Ampoliros » 16 May 2011 13:26

Well so far I'm struggling through it, only read the first 3 articles.

I disagreed most with the editors gom jabbar article so far, but I'd have to go back and flesh out why. The eugenics one at least tried to defend its positions and bothered to mention brian and Kevin when it was relevant even if they totally missed the fact that they added nothing substantially relevant to the discussion. I do believe that the 'notes justification' is still in effect. Amazing how far a small lie like that can take you.
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Ampoliros » 19 May 2011 13:47

Here's my revised review for Dune & Philosophy

I'm leaving my 5-star rating standing and I'll explain why, call it the Obama Peace Prize 5-star rating. I'm giving the book 5 stars for starting an important public discussion more than I am for the quality of the actual book.

I'm still only about half way through all the articles because I'm taking my time, notating agreements and disagreements, which is why I think the book and the related discussion it creates is important: It is high time we had more public discussion of why Dune is important, not just as a pinnacle of sci-fi or American Literature, but because I very much believe that humanity is better for its creation.

While it is left to speculation how Frank himself would have received each article, I think he would have appreciated this work for what it is: Readers who got an intellectual understanding of his work above pure entertainment, and considered it of value enough to be discussing its merits almost 50 years after its publication.

Its a sad time for DUNE when the primary point of contention centers around the quality (or lack thereof) of current tackings-on to Frank's work. The articles in this book do us a service in focusing on more legitimate concerns. I do of course offer a caveat which I expanded upon here in the Amazon book discussion page for this book: that any scholarly arguments made in the Dune universe must take into consideration the multidimensional aspect of a work where other authors take over for a lost giant.
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby SandChigger » 19 May 2011 16:41

:clap: :clap: :clap:

(Did you repost that in place of the earlier "review", or append it? I'll go see later, but just curious....)

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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Ampoliros » 19 May 2011 17:15

I appended it so the discussion would make sense, the old review is intact aside from the headline.
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Apjak » 20 May 2011 07:17

Ampoliros wrote:Its a sad time for DUNE when the primary point of contention centers around the quality (or lack thereof) of current tackings-on to Frank's work.



:text-yeahthat:
I don't think the author should make the reader do that much work - Kevin J. Anderson
We think we've updated 'Dune' for a modern readership without dumbing it down.- Brian Herbert
There’s an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money(energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. - Frank Herbert

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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby SandRider » 20 May 2011 17:21

where is the discussion of this on the Official Corporate Dune Forum ?

[edit]
nevermind, I found it - this is the "discussion", in toto :

liebkraft
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I recently bought the book 'Dune and Philosophy' (http://www.amazon.de/Dune-Philosophy-Po ... 068&sr=8-1) and I have to say at first sight it looks really got. I hadn't time to read it yet - still reading all Dune-Novels in the chronological order - but I hope to start soon.
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Serkanner » 20 May 2011 18:32

I have read posts by that "Liebcraft"idiot. he is a fucking shame to anything "Germanic".

I have finally received my copy of the book today.I will read it some time after I finished Game of thrones ... have to stay ahead of the series now.

I will change my "review" on Amazon after reading it.
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Robspierre » 25 May 2011 22:23

Had one of the article writers leave a comment. Ignore the last part talking about John Walker Lindh.

The important part of his response is the top portion.

Rob

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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Ampoliros » 26 May 2011 00:46

Hmm I have to admit I rather fully disagreed with his comparison to the Fremen and Americans, but it think its more difference of opinion. I'll have to go back and look at my notations for that article. (damn you grad school, I can't read anything without a highlighter now).
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby SadisticCynic » 04 Jun 2011 21:27

Lundse gets :clap:
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby Ampoliros » 04 Jun 2011 23:50

I have to agree, Lundse's status as an OH aside, his was the best article IMHO. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the fact that Lundse was the only one that I felt actually understood most of Frank's points. There were too many articles that dealt with Paul as a paragon hero and felt mystified at his bad side.

I also liked the "curse of the golden path" article, although that author's other two articles seemed to lose some of its umph.
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby SadisticCynic » 05 Jun 2011 06:02

Ampoliros wrote:I have to agree, Lundse's status as an OH aside, his was the best article IMHO. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the fact that Lundse was the only one that I felt actually understood most of Frank's points. There were too many articles that dealt with Paul as a paragon hero and felt mystified at his bad side.

I also liked the "curse of the golden path" article, although that author's other two articles seemed to lose some of its umph.


This is unfortunately true. :(
It seemed like a case of simply getting the order of things mixed up. Often, instead of seeing what philosophy Frank espoused, they try to apply other philosophies to his work (which is by no means necessarily wrong) and it doesn't always seem to fit.

Of course, as you say, it was a really great article despite its companions, not because of them. :wink:
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Re: Shameless plug!

Postby SandChigger » 05 Jun 2011 10:40

I finally have my copy of this and was underwhelmed by the factual inaccuracy found in just the first paragraph of the foreword. :(

(I think I'll just skip to Lundse's essay and then come back to this later.)


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