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    Jodorowsky's Dune

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    Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby lotek » 11 Jul 2010 02:40

    After welcoming Jodorowsky's Acolyte(we have to find you that sietch name) I did a google on Jodorowsky and found this as the 4th result(so maybe it has been posted before?couldn't find it with the forum search)

    http://www.duneinfo.com/unseen/jodorowsky.asp

    (I guess some of you already know that website?)

    Jodorwsky wrote:I did not want to respect the novel, I wanted to recreate it. For me Dune did not belong to Herbert as Don Quixote did not belong to Cervantes, nor Edipo with Esquilo.


    The fact that he came clean with it and welcomed Dune among the great classics of literature would have given him the right to try... Others still cling to the pretense of concordance and lost any dregs of credibility that might have survived from their previous encounters with "franchises"...

    A.J. wrote:Me, I liked to fight for Dune. Almost all the battles were won, but the war was lost. The project was sabotaged in Hollywood. It was French and not American. Its message was not "enough Hollywood". There were intrigues, plundering. The story-board circulated among all the large studios. Later, the visual aspect of Star Wars resembled our style. To make Alien, they invited Moebius, Foss, Giger, O'Bannon, etc. The project announced to American the possibility of carrying out science fiction films to large spectacle and out of the scientific rigour of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

    The Dune project changed our life. When it was over, O'Bannon entered a psychiatric hospital. Afterwards, he returned to the fight with rage and wrote twelve scripts which were refused. The thirteenth one was Alien.

    Like him, all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail".
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 11 Jul 2010 02:59

    He was truly nuts, apparently he'd never read Dune, but "God" spoke to him in a dream telling him that the next movie he made would be Dune, so the next day he went and bought it and read it in one day (so... loosely skimmed it).

    He was fun crazy though.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Crizius » 21 Nov 2011 11:07

    I"n my version of Dune, the Emperor of the galaxy is insane. He lives on an artificial gold planet, in a gold palace built according to not-laws of antilogical. He lives in symbiosis with a robot identical to him. The resemblance is so perfect that the citizens never know if they are opposite the man or the machine..."



    "Feyd Rautha.Baron Harkonnen's nephew and lover, plots to make the himself crowned Emperor of the Galaxy."
    !

    Original Dune is awesome book , according to wikipedia it's best SCI FI novel ever,so why to make stupid and pointless changes?
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Freakzilla » 21 Nov 2011 11:43

    You could ask David Lynch the same question. His answer would probably be the same... too much LSD.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby lotek » 21 Nov 2011 12:05

    Freakzilla wrote:You could ask David Lynch the same question. His answer would probably be the same... too much LSD.


    who ate all the LSDs ?
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Crizius » 21 Nov 2011 12:34

    lotek wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:You could ask David Lynch the same question. His answer would probably be the same... too much LSD.


    who ate all the LSDs ?


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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Crizius » 21 Nov 2011 12:37

    Speaking of which, is it possible to become "high on spice"?
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby lotek » 21 Nov 2011 13:00

    Ask the Atreides :)
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Freakzilla » 21 Nov 2011 18:11

    It IS a drug but I don't think there is a physical "high". I think it would be like a psychedelic.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Freakzilla » 21 Nov 2011 18:14

    BTW, Jodorowsky DID read Dune... in a day. Obviously why he didn't understand it.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 27 Nov 2011 18:33

    It's true, Freakzilla. I think Jodorowsky read it in only a day (but if he finished it in a day, his reading speed is very impressive). I still give him credit for wanting to include all the characters, in comparison to other adaptations of DUNE. However, I wish that Jodorowsky wasn't so vague and confusing about the film's pre-production. I love the story of how he assembled his team, and how he was thinking of pulling the film off, but he spends far too much time discussing Salvidor Dali's self-importance and bizarre requirements (i.e. the golden bathroom with two golden dolphin toilets which keep urine and feces separate from each other :roll: ). I wish that he explained more about the story, because the explanations which he gives are sketchy and beyond melodramatic. Remember the scene he described Duke Leto being castrated by the bull, and Jessica using his one drop of blood to impregnate herself, symbolizing a super far out virgin birth? Or the part where Lady Fenring stabs Paul (how she did this or why she does this is a mystery), and it turns out that Jessica has to be killed in order for Paul to be killed :o . Setting these weird liberties aside, his summary for the script (featured on the David Lynch DUNE site) still seems faithful to the core concept of DUNE (with hints of the Butlerian Jihad, the state of Arrakis and the Fremen, and the political state of Universe), albeit with symbolic amplifcations, expansions, and wild additions. If he had given a more detailed summary of the story, or had at least released the script, then I could know for sure if his adaptation was a good or flawed.

    The reasons for Jodorowsky's decision to alter much of the book was because he saw Frank Herbert's novel as a myth to be reinterpreted and adapted into his own myth. I'll look forward to the time when the documentary gets released next.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby trang » 27 Nov 2011 19:27

    I dont know that much about Jodorowsky's Dune, it does sound fairly whacked out, but not judging.

    I don't understand why you would put Lynch's version along side though. Frank worked on it when it was being created, hell he wrote the first script (like to have seen that, is there a copy anywhere?) and then trashed it because he didn't feel he had the talent to translate his writing into visual like lynch did. He said in those interviews he liked the way lynch was going. I know folks don't like the lynch version very much, I happen to though. Frank being on site and putting his stamp on it pretty much certifies it to me.

    I'm starving for a remake of Dune and the rest of the chronicles(in epic LOTR type style, no expense spared), not holding breath though.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 27 Nov 2011 20:11

    Are you kidding me? I LOVE THE LYNCH VERSION! Well, I'd like it even more if the extended version was improved (because someone used a few weird editing techniques for the TV version). The atmosphere, the desert scenery, the worms, the style--- all of these I love. My favorites are Alia saying her awesome lines with her toothless grin, and Paul giving both the Reverend Mother and Feyd pain with his awesomely powerful voice.

    I particularly like the darkly humorous scenes with the Harkonnens, too.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby DuneFishUK » 28 Nov 2011 16:01

    Any adaptation is just that: an adaptation. FH himself says in the Intro to Eye that film and text are entirely different languages. One example: the scene with Yueh and Jessica is awesome... but also un-cinematic, you'd need to find a different way to convey the things in it.

    FWIW I'd much rather see something like Jodorowsky's bonkers mess of creativity carry the name "Dune" than the dumbed down generic summer scifi actioner they'd like to announce in 60 to 90 days.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 24 Feb 2012 01:33

    It's interesting to know that Dan O'Bannon was chosen by Jodorowsky to do the special effects for DUNE because he liked his film DARK STAR. It was also because one of the best special effects guys around, Douglas Trumball (he originally tried to recruit), was an asshole. Carrying out DARK STAR styled effects for the art direction Jodorowsky had in mind would have been nuts. Just see for yourself what O'Bannon's movie was like.



    It turns out that the old cast of MST3K worked on a project also titled DARK STAR, or DARKSTAR as its actually called. I don't think it has anything to do with the old film (I don't think it was inspired by the film at all, just similarities in the title), but it's awesome nonetheless. It's an interactive movie, with a very retro sci-fi feel to it.

    Here are some trailers for the game.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F-82dTuARQ&feature=related[/youtube]



    After seeing this, I wondered: why not adapt Jodorowsky's DUNE as an interactive movie with the help of Parallax Studio? That could be a convenient way for Jodorowsky to adapt his 14 hour screenplay, and he would have the benefit of Parallax's CG effects to carry his artistic vision out as well. It may need some interactive additions added to the screenplay, but this would be a cool way to get it out, right?

    It just sucks that David Carradine isn't alive to play Dr. Liet Kynes (Kwai Chang Caine could have been Liet!). Maybe there are some actors right now who are just as scruffy and difficult as he was.

    Speaking of cast, I was bothered that nowhere in Jodorowsky's essay does he mention Chani. I wonder who was supposed to play Chani (I hope she was a stunning Eastern European, Mexican, Middle-Eastern, or African babe), or if Chani was ever adapted into the screenplay. It would be really awkward if the only women in Paul's life in Jodorowsky's
    version were Jessica, Mohiam, or Lady Fenring. If Chani and Harrah were included in the movie, I bet Jodorowsky was planning on a super-complicated, mystical, heavily symbolic sexual triangle. Maybe a scene where Paul proves his messiahdom by sleeping with all the Fremen women, but seeing that Chani is the most worthy of his essence? Something sexual in the lines of El Topo I guess, except I'm not sure whether the film was to be rated R. Giger did have to draw the Geidi Prime in a child-friendly manner, without sex or violence (though nothing about Giger was really child-friendly). The upcoming documentary better have a thorough explanation as to what would go on in the film, and maybe sell the complete screenplay along with it.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby D Pope » 24 Feb 2012 10:22

    Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:I wonder who was supposed to play Chani (I hope she was a stunning Eastern European, Mexican, Middle-Eastern, or African babe)

    You make me wonder if my perception of the story would change if the fremen were African.
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 24 Feb 2012 14:09

    D Pope wrote:
    Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:I wonder who was supposed to play Chani (I hope she was a stunning Eastern European, Mexican, Middle-Eastern, or African babe)

    You make me wonder if my perception of the story would change if the fremen were African.


    Good point. I once asked a college instructor if it would enhance DUNE if the Fremen were of African decent. He said it would alter the focus of the story, I believe from planetary colonialism to planetary racism. Of course, colonialism can be derived from racism, but ethnicity isn't really explored thoroughly in the novel. The main prejudice against the Fremen is that they live in the desert, and that they're in the way of spice production.
    The reason why I thought Chani could possible be played by an African actress (besides the others I had in mind) was because Jodorowsky had a South African guerrilla war expert handle the Fremen choreography, and I thought that he might have considered recruiting African actors for some of the roles. I've forgotten that South Africa comprises not mainly of black Africans, but Dutch and English descended Caucasians as well, so I'm not sure if the choreographer was black South African (it was a long time when I read this article, and I read it long before I learned about apartheid).

    For the Fremen, I think it would be in Jodorowsky's nature to choose actors of all different kinds of nationalities, because he is very much into having a variety of individuals working together. HOLY MOUNTAIN and EL TOPO, for example, feature amputees, dwarves, people with giantism or down syndrome, etc. He's all about representing the under-exposed and under-appreciated peoples in society in his films. It could explain why his film ideas are so intense philosophically and symbolically. I find it really awesome that he inspired a bunch of the people who worked for him to push their own capabilities, and that he would act as an encouraging mentor to his cast members later on in their lives. The guy who was supposed to play Gurney for J's DUNE planned on writing a book, and Jodorowsky gave him full support. His ideas for DUNE was nuts, but I still appreciate how really out there his global and cosmic perception was.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby D Pope » 24 Feb 2012 14:30

    JA wrote:"He said it would alter the focus of the story... from planetary colonialism to planetary racism."

    Exactly what I was thinking, how significant a change that really is to my initial understanding.
    "A touch of the spice brush," goes on to encompass a totally different set of ideas when veiwed in this light.

    The difference is interesting but ultimately, I think, would detract from the tale.
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby JustSomeGuy » 24 Feb 2012 22:52

    Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:It's interesting to know that Dan O'Bannon was chosen by Jodorowsky to do the special effects for DUNE because he liked his film DARK STAR. It was also because one of the best special effects guys around, Douglas Trumball (he originally tried to recruit), was an asshole. Carrying out DARK STAR styled effects for the art direction Jodorowsky had in mind would have been nuts. Just see for yourself what O'Bannon's movie was like.
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi6N_nM1K6A&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

    That was pretty good. I'm not myself, though... That scene with the rubber ball was pretty stupid.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 26 Feb 2012 19:43

    JustSomeGuy wrote:
    Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:It's interesting to know that Dan O'Bannon was chosen by Jodorowsky to do the special effects for DUNE because he liked his film DARK STAR. It was also because one of the best special effects guys around, Douglas Trumball (he originally tried to recruit), was an asshole. Carrying out DARK STAR styled effects for the art direction Jodorowsky had in mind would have been nuts. Just see for yourself what O'Bannon's movie was like.
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi6N_nM1K6A&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

    That was pretty good. I'm not myself, though... That scene with the rubber ball was pretty stupid.


    I think the film's purpose is to be an absurdist B-grade sci-fi comedy, so the rubber ball alien fits nicely in this sort of film. I'm not saying that they're special effects are excellent (it wouldn't be until ALIEN that Dan O'Bannon's effects would polish up), but it would've been interesting t see how Jodorowsky's vision would have taken off with O'Bannon's crude DARK STAR effects. Given time and lots of money, O'Bannon probably would have succeeded in carrying Giger's Moebius's, and Foss's art designs realistically in his special effects. If the film was intended to be 14 hours, the special effects team would have required lots of money to carry them through.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Crizius » 17 Sep 2012 13:57

    Wasted opportunity...
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Freakzilla » 18 Sep 2012 09:36

    People on acid should not direct Dune movies.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby lotek » 18 Sep 2012 11:57

    Freakzilla wrote:People on acid should not direct Dune movies.


    I'm not sure people on acid should direct any movie.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby Freakzilla » 18 Sep 2012 12:25

    lotek wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:People on acid should not direct Dune movies.


    I'm not sure people on acid should direct any movie.


    Nah, some have entertainment value but I'm a purists when it comes to Dune. I can understand changes from translating the medium but some of the things Lynch did and everything Jodorowsky would have done are just bizzar.
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    Re: Jodorowsky's Dune

    Postby lotek » 18 Sep 2012 12:37

    I suppose it depends on their level of tolerance.
    To be honest I think drugs experience would be a bonus when dealing with a book that talks about a substance that expands consciousness, but as much as they are a creation boost they also can be a recipe for... complication.

    But I must agree that what J had in mind would have been nothing like Dune.
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