DUNE DISCUSSION FORUM FOR ORTHODOX HERBERTARIANS
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The fact that we are having this discussion seems to indicate nobody learned from the myriad movies about AI...Orthodox wrote:It just keeps getting weirder and weirder. I wonder what people will think of an automated Stealth bomber. Did no one learn from the movie Stealth?
I only watched that movie for Jessica Biel (the only woman to ever look hot in a G-suit):SadisticCynic wrote:The fact that we are having this discussion seems to indicate nobody learned from the myriad movies about AI...Orthodox wrote:It just keeps getting weirder and weirder. I wonder what people will think of an automated Stealth bomber. Did no one learn from the movie Stealth?
He is indeed.A Thing of Eternity wrote:Kurz'y a wack-job
Jesus Christ!Freakzilla wrote:I only watched that movie for Jessica Biel (the only woman to ever look hot in a G-suit)
Bah, that's the tip of the iceberg of wackyness with him. I don't think he's nutso for thinking we'll be able to upload consciousness into a digital medium and become immortal - I have my doubts, but it's not really that far-fetched.SandChigger wrote:He is indeed.A Thing of Eternity wrote:Kurz'y a wack-job
Imagine how he's going to feel if someone demonstrates that it's impossible to upload human consciousness into another medium.
Unless his theory is that the best you can do is a simulation anyway, and that nobody will be able to tell the difference. Agree that probably is not enough, but...SandChigger wrote:Eeew. I hadn't heard any of that about his father.
That's a wee bit dim of him, isn't it?
I just read it.SandChigger wrote:Doesn't Reynolds have three levels of sim ... "realism", or fidelity-to-original, in his Revelation Space-verse? Ranging from gamma to alpha, with gamma the lowest and representing a sort of souped-up expert system/AI, beta a more recognizable simulation of a human persona, and alpha being virtually indistinguishable from the original human personality? (SPOILER!! The one character shares his body with an alpha sim of his father at one point?) Something like that? (Sorry, it's been a good three or four years since I read Revelation Space!)
In those terms, I don't see how you could ever get anything better than a beta sim without scanning or interaction with the original. Which of course is impossible in the case of the deceased.
Oh yeah... I think Beta was the copy of the Alpha (which couldn't be genuinely copied in theory) and the Gamma was the simulation.SandChigger wrote:Thanks! Was kinda in the ballpark.
I thought I remembered some mention of gamma sims, too. Kinda like automated reception desks or information centers, places and things where a slight human touch was felt desirable.
Could also just be a brainfart. I'm gassy this morning something awful.
That book is nothing, the first book I read by him was Absolution Gap, which to this day remains one of the most bizzare dark messed up books I've ever read...Freakzilla wrote:Oh yeah... I think Beta was the copy of the Alpha (which couldn't be genuinely copied in theory) and the Gamma was the simulation.SandChigger wrote:Thanks! Was kinda in the ballpark.
I thought I remembered some mention of gamma sims, too. Kinda like automated reception desks or information centers, places and things where a slight human touch was felt desirable.
Could also just be a brainfart. I'm gassy this morning something awful.
That book was way out there, man.
as Frank Herbert has said many times in the text of his novels, knowing is the greatest barrier to learning. The programming could be very basic. Like our programming drives us to be social, eat and have sex.SandRider wrote:tl;dr: most of this thread
what that (as yet) unknown intelligent "spark" is in the human brain, whether "spiritual" or bio-chemical is a different question -
No-one has yet explained to me how a man-made machine can "exceed its programming" ...
I will concede that a machine could be built that would simulate independent "consciousness",
and materials and robotics could advance to the point that a "replicant" would be indistinguishable
from an actual human (except to Rick Deckard, but he was replicant, too), and I will concede they
could be programmed to build more machines like themselves, independently, (thus "procreating")
and so may in some stretch be considered a new "lifeform" in a way, or "sentient being" (or self-aware or what-have-you)
but
they will still be machines; how can a program innovate independently ? (outside of a comic book ?)
Can machines be conscious ? no, not the SiFi sense ....