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    Out in Open Sand

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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Mandy » 20 Jun 2010 10:08

    Nice hat!
    As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hypatia approaches one.
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Tleszer » 20 Jun 2010 12:22

    SandChigger wrote:And under no conditions should you stare for more than a few seconds at the green tushie!)


    Renegade Rev Mother wrote:Question: Green tushie? :mrgreen:


    Welcome, RRM! :orcs-buttshake:

    You'll learn to love the tushie. They all do. :mrgreen:
    DUNE, as interpreted by a blue man with a green tushie
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Renegade Rev Mother » 21 Jun 2010 01:02

    @ Mandy: Thanks. The Great Horned headdresses of Shai Hulud were made for Reverend Mother Ramallo and me by our individual sietches. We accommodated certain expectations in order to survive them. Her headdress was bedecked with more wooden and bone beads, while mine has soostones and fire opals, both beads and inset cabochons.

    It was noted that Jessica of the Weirding adopted neither this style, nor the styles more commonly associated with off-world Reverend Mothers; preferring, as always, to go her own way. When she was in the desert as Ramallo’s successor before the fall of the Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV, she adopted a modified, smaller version of the Great Horned headdress of Shai Halud, made of dark cloth, without hanging fringe or other decoration, though she did wear the white wimple with simple embroidery of desert blooms across the forehead. She also wore over-tunic of a material similar to suede common to that worn by Ramallo, as well as a belt of large wooden beads analogous to an Orange Catholic rosary, which had both religious and practical uses.

    @ Chig: It’s this that makes you the Grand Inquisitor for Matters of the Orthodox Herbertarians, indeed.

    I’m still inclined to cut Brian Tyler some slack.

    I imagine he was given, as so many movie composers are, a small window to pull something spectacular out of their ass, which, for the record, I think he did. Love the CoD soundtrack.

    I can picture Tyler, not really appreciating the difference between the Canon Dune novels and the Dune Encyclopedia. To an outsider, to quote poor Alia, those are “distinctions without a difference.”

    FH gave his “delighted approval” of the Dune Encyclopedia. In BIG print on the cover is FH’s name and “Dune.” It’s also credited as the Complete and Authorized Guide to Frank Herbert’s Masterpiece of the Imagination. My guess is, Tyler felt “safe” in getting the Fremen words from the Encyclopedia, probably believing that those words were amongst the Dune Canon, while the Encyclopedia happily “had it all in one place.” (With a small window in which to create a lot of music, he could spend his time researching, which is not his bent, or spend it creating, which is.) I am guessing, but I believe he probably believed that the Dune Encyclopedia was written more than merely endorsed by FH. In other words, that the actual Fremen words in the Dune Encyclopedia were FH’s and literally somewhere in the Dune novels, and for expedience sake, he used the Encyclopedia. So, in his mind, he’s not lying, they’re “from” the Dune (one of the FH Dune novels), nor, again to his mind, is he “plagiarizing” as he credits FH.

    As for the “translation,” that happens a lot in music. I have friends who have asked my help in translating music whose lyrics are in one language, to that of another, as well as translating Classics. It’s hard to keep the true meaning of the words AND set them to music (and sometimes, somehow make them rhyme.)

    Example: In Book VI of Virgil’s the Æneid the Sybil tells Aeneas “noctes atque dies patet atri ianua Ditis; sed revocare gradum superasque evadere ad auras, hoc opus, hic labor est.” Poetry, perhaps, to the Ancient Roman ear, but not to modern ones. Basically, it is “the path to hell is easy: black Dis’s door is open night and day: but to retrace your steps, and go out to the air above, that is work, that is the task,” and even that “adds” words, as “hoc opus, hic labor est” would literally, word for word, be: “that work, here labour is.” With poetic license (not mine), the same passage becomes: “The gates of hell are open night and day; Smooth the descent, and easy is the way: But to return, and view the cheerful skies, In this the task and mighty labour lies."

    I don’t know how aware, if at all, Tyler was of the real-world origins and roots in actual Arabic, and perhaps thought the “license for the passage of (in the books) thousands of years” would help to account for his poetic license.

    I do not believe Tyler intended any slight, deception or plagiarism.

    @ Tleszer of the
    Bent Blue Wang and Lurid Green Tushie. Damn. Just... damn. Keep a lid on that. I should report that to the Sisterhood as yet another place “we cannot look.” :wink:

    Read your “KJA of Dune.” I think you have his and BH’s “numbers.” (Ha.) As I have noted here often, BH/KJA oft returned (and repeated, in loving detail, the themes dear to every adolescent male’s heart – to wit, sex, violence and explosions (and all, when they could work it in.) When in doubt “where” to “go” next – kill it (him, her, project, whatever) in the most spectacular (and preferably gory) way possible. Need a little “character depth”? (‘scuse the double-entendre) Thrash around in the Duneverse version of the Kama Sutra and add the obligatory voyeur, extra points for that voyeur being inappropriate – a child, a guardian, etc.

    FH could let readers know, in no uncertain terms, that his characters had a hearty appreciation for one another on a sensual level, without getting either gross, or laughable (the sole exception being Leto II’s little self-indulgence of a swan song to his sexuality in the face of the Golden Path with Sabiha, which included the terminology “manly beef swelling.” :shock: Sorry, that did give me the giggles. :lol: )

    ~ RRM
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    "U tishuf hatt al-hudud / alman albaid. / Ayway libarr / adam almalum / tishuf liani..."
    "Bless the Maker and His water. Bless His coming and His going. May His passing cleanse the world, may He keep the world for His people. Bi-la kaifa!"
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby SandChigger » 21 Jun 2010 02:35

    Renegade Rev Mother wrote:I can picture Tyler, not really appreciating the difference between the Canon Dune novels and the Dune Encyclopedia. To an outsider, to quote poor Alia, those are “distinctions without a difference.”

    FH gave his “delighted approval” of the Dune Encyclopedia. In BIG print on the cover is FH’s name and “Dune.” It’s also credited as the Complete and Authorized Guide to Frank Herbert’s Masterpiece of the Imagination. My guess is, Tyler felt “safe” in getting the Fremen words from the Encyclopedia, probably believing that those words were amongst the Dune Canon, while the Encyclopedia happily “had it all in one place.” (With a small window in which to create a lot of music, he could spend his time researching, which is not his bent, or spend it creating, which is.) I am guessing, but I believe he probably believed that the Dune Encyclopedia was written more than merely endorsed by FH. In other words, that the actual Fremen words in the Dune Encyclopedia were FH’s and literally somewhere in the Dune novels, and for expedience sake, he used the Encyclopedia. So, in his mind, he’s not lying, they’re “from” the Dune (one of the FH Dune novels), nor, again to his mind, is he “plagiarizing” as he credits FH.

    That all occurred to me, of course. But why I just can't quite believe it is what Tyler quotes Yaitanes as saying on his website (and in the CD cover notes):

    “Inama Nushif” is sung in Fremen the native language of the people of Dune. Unreal. Brian actually searched through Herbert’s books and deciphered enough of the fictional Fremen language to write this powerful song.

    That's a rather different claim than "I found these lyrics in one of FH's books and tinkered with them", no? And if by some chance Yaitanes misunderstood what Tyler told him, Tyler could have issued a disclaimer about it on his website. But he hasn't. And he won't answer or even acknowledge inquiries about the matter.

    I don’t know how aware, if at all, Tyler was of the real-world origins and roots in actual Arabic, and perhaps thought the “license for the passage of (in the books) thousands of years” would help to account for his poetic license.

    This is, in a sense, another indictment of the half-assed way Dune is being handled these days. In this case, they didn't have a "Dune expert" on call that he could contact.

    I do not believe Tyler intended any slight, deception or plagiarism.

    Well, I wish I could say the same. But I don't see why Yaitanes would have dreamt up that "searched through the books" part of the story on his own. But maybe he did. And Tyler didn't want to correct him publicly out of respect or out of fear he might not get anymore soundtrack work from Yaitanes. Probably just another Dune thing we'll never know the truth about.

    But intentions aside, the fact remains that as it now stands, Tyler did plagiarize the lyrics and has failed to credit their true source.
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Renegade Rev Mother » 21 Jun 2010 04:37

    SandChigger wrote:This is, in a sense, another indictment of the half-assed way Dune is being handled these days. In this case, they didn't have a "Dune expert" on call that he could contact.


    Oh, Chig, my brother of sand and water, you have no idea. Actually, you probably do. If I had a coin for every “liberty” and “license” taken in turning a book or story, whether real or fictional, into a movie or mini-series… it is an indictment of the half-assed way so many things, masterpieces of both fiction and non-fiction, are “handled.”

    There’s very little quarter, to say nothing of respect, given to staying historically accurate or true to a story, any story, whether the subject is Elizabeth I being brought to the Big Screen or the “heirs” of BH taking considerable liberties – kind of like Jean and Michel Monet being given Sharpies and the go-ahead at their father Claude’s canvases because they “knew” what he had in mind and where he wanted to “go next,” and besides, it'd be "okay" to tinker with them because they knew he had cataracts.

    I have known of films where there were “experts” or “consultants” (even the actual authors on-set occasionally) who have been shouted down (literally or otherwise) or basically ignored in the face of what the directors, management or “the studio” wants. It’s actually quite commonplace, where you have Bob Jones, Hit Shit Director, says “Yeah, well, Frank Herbert may have written the book, but this isn’t his ‘vision’, it’s my vision of his work!” Actors are given a script, and largely do as they’re told (most are easily replaced) and few get involved with researching their characters, especially if their characters “exist” in a complicated and cerebral work of fiction. More than one author or consultant has walked disgustedly off the set, while “the show,” completely out of their hands, departing wildly from his “vision”, rolls merrily on. If they can do it with actual History, it must be all the easier to do with fiction, though the legions of fans of such works as FH’s Dune and Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings trilogy must make it a bit harder to “wing it.”


    SandChigger wrote:Well, I wish I could say the same. ( I had written: “I do not believe Tyler intended any slight, deception or plagiarism.” )

    But I don't see why Yaitanes would have dreamt up that "searched through the books" part of the story on his own. But maybe he did. And Tyler didn't want to correct him publicly out of respect or out of fear he might not get anymore soundtrack work from Yaitanes. Probably just another Dune thing we'll never know the truth about.


    I believe you’re on to something, there, Chig. There may have even been the attitude given to Tyler, at all, that “it’s not real anyway, none of it’s real, so, anything goes…” hence, possibly, Tyler’s disinclination to address you. (I.e., wondering why you “attack” him when he was green-lighted by those allegedly “in the know” and with the power to make decisions with a piece of artistic property of FH.)

    People say all sorts of things, and I’m not saying it’s right and for them, it’s merely “off the cuff,” and in Yaitanes’s case, probably giving an extra compliment to Tyler’s truly lovely and engaging work, which does indeed, do much for the atmosphere of the “Children of Dune” mini-series. And, Tyler, as you note, is not much in a position to “correct” Yaitanes.

    Still, I find Tyler’s – a songwriter and composer, who aside from a muddled “translation” noted only by the truest and detail-oriented of fans, kept true to so much else – “sins” much less than those of BH/KJA, who allegedly are vested in the intricacies of the worlds FH created, and yet have blithely radically departed from the behaviour and personalities of even the most well-known characters as FH wrote them. JMHO.

    ~ RRM
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    "U tishuf hatt al-hudud / alman albaid. / Ayway libarr / adam almalum / tishuf liani..."
    "Bless the Maker and His water. Bless His coming and His going. May His passing cleanse the world, may He keep the world for His people. Bi-la kaifa!"
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby A Little Galach » 21 Jun 2010 12:01

    From your novelettes I gather:

    A) You like real Dune
    B) You dislike the new Dune
    C) You really are a RM
    B) You don't wear panties

    Therefore: Welcome! I'm a big fan.

    I think you also said that you didn't enjoy GEoD as much as books 1-3, but I didn't see if you had read #'s 5 & 6. Could the you spend a few minutes and paragraphs and tell me if you have or not? Just curious.
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Freakzilla » 21 Jun 2010 12:02

    There's two "B"s there...
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby A Little Galach » 21 Jun 2010 12:11

    Freakzilla wrote:There's two "B"s there...


    I'll let it stand. Editing internet posts on a grammar-basis is for pussies.

    Originally the list was two items long, but I thought I should lengthen it to four in order to make my obvious interest a little more subtle. Mission accomplished BTW.
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Freakzilla » 21 Jun 2010 12:17

    Disliking McDune and not wearing panties are interchangeable anyway.
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby A Little Galach » 21 Jun 2010 13:08

    They may as well me membership requirements. That and using English.
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 21 Jun 2010 15:45

    Now you're missing a "be".

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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby A Little Galach » 21 Jun 2010 15:51

    I would have fixed that mistake if it wasn't for my proclamation about editing posts earlier.
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby SandRider » 21 Jun 2010 18:04

    aww, can't help, got to post :

    1. Hate McDune.
    2. Take off Panties.
    3. ????
    4. Profit.



    back to the sex thing for a minute to say that I really, really disliked all the sexual-based plotlines in the
    last two books (esp the Teg child porn) - at the time, I felt it was really beneath Frank and that he had
    allowed the times (Reagan's GoodTime Cocaine Train GreedFest) to push him into "salting" the book with
    gratuitous porn ... a case could be made for the imprinting of Duncan, as he had always been presented
    as the "Ladies' Man", so it would be logical that he should be controlled by a "sexual adept", but it could've
    {and should've} been done with more subtlety ....

    but I'm also of the "don't really care about the last two books" school ....
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby SandChigger » 21 Jun 2010 19:29

    A Little Galach wrote:Editing internet posts on a grammar-basis is for pussies.

    Bite me. :D
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Renegade Rev Mother » 21 Jun 2010 21:39

    A Little Galach wrote:From your novelettes I gather:


    Not digging the length? Maybe? Kinda?

    A Little Galach wrote:A) You like real Dune.


    Yes. Specifically, Books I-III.

    A Little Galach wrote:B) You dislike the new Dune.


    Yes.

    In case anyone might be slow on the uptake, I am a writer. I have been plagiarized before myself, and I have also had someone “edit” my work and make a complete fucking hash of it – from mistranslating languages that I can read/write (and the editor could not; he simply changed the words, for some unknown reason) to inserting things and deleting others. True, there is something called “Pride of Authorship” with which most of us have, to a certain degree, but a good editor merely shapes things, not changes things willy-nilly or actually changes the focus/intent/message of an article (this includes inserting an agenda not my own, but with my name on it; unacceptable. If you have a “message,” put your own name on it.)

    So, reading McDune/NuDune, whatever, I am appalled that Brian Herbert’s own son and his partner can so cavalierly change the very essence of FH’s vision and think it can be easily “explained away.” They’re not “little differences,” they are glaring departures. It’d be like adding an extra child to Queen Victoria’s family, “deciding” to “make” Thomas Jefferson gay, “changing” St. Francis of Assisi into a Machiavellian specialist in poisons, etc. Have those things happened in history? Sure. But not to those people. If you want to write about a thirteenth-century unscrupulous poisoner, go ahead: Create your own. You can even give him the same name, but you must make that an ironic commentary: at the same time, at the same place, there were two men of the same name; one an aesthetic saint, and the other his complete opposite, an amoral killer.

    ”Notes,” my ass. If you read my notes on many subjects, unless you were extremely familiar with the subject matter, you’d “see” a mishmash of names, dates, abbreviations, words in different languages and what would appear to be disjointed non-sequiturs. Sometimes even I, who wrote them, have to stop and think, “wait a minute... oh, yes... “ It is hardly unique to me; most people, whatever their “specialties,” have their own. Even if you were extremely familiar with the subject matter, it’d be quite the task to create something in my style based solely on my notes. You’d also not know what I had thought, what choices and decisions I had mentally made, or was considering making.


    A Little Galach wrote:C) You really are a RM.


    Kinda fun, eh? :wink:

    Why not? These discussion groups can be a forum for creative people bound by their admiration for a creative man and his “Masterpiece of the Imagination” and a place to expound on their own creativity.

    The difference being this and some other sites being, I think the members of Jacarutu Sietch have enough sanity to know the difference between the world as it exists in FH’s novels and the one that does when you close your laptop.


    A Little Galach wrote:B) [sic: D) ]You don't wear panties.


    Ahh, a bit of a misunderstanding.

    Sandrider shared his hope that perhaps I and “Reverend Mother Q” (whom I mistook for the Bene Gesserit Sister Quintinius Violet Chenoeh) might be amenable to a little wrasslin’ in quicksand. I declined (can’t speak for “Reverend Mother Q”) as I am not a fan of sand in my undies, though I expect Sandrider is a Fremen free-baller.


    A Little Galach wrote:Therefore: Welcome! I'm a big fan.


    I am honoured. I have quietly observed and searched through many a windswept place on the Dune ‘Net in search of a place like Jacarutu. For a desert place, I have encountered many places of flakes, nuts and... hysterics.

    Besides, it is not a good thing for a sietch to have its own Reverend Mother? :wink:


    A Little Galach wrote:I think you also said that you didn't enjoy GEoD as much as books 1-3, but I didn't see if you had read #'s 5 & 6. Could the you spend a few minutes and paragraphs and tell me if you have or not? Just curious.


    I have read the entire Canon Dune of FH.

    My favourites are Dune, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, and Dune Messiah is edged out by the other two.

    As I have written before, the “Original Characters” are what captured my imagination and interest. Children of Dune ends with Leto II and Ghanima still chronological, if not mental and emotional, children. I already wanted so much more in terms of information and story lines with Jessica, Irulan, Reverend Mother Mohaim, Paul/Muad’Dib, Chani, et. al., and then God Emperor of Dune “jumped” literally a millennia into the future, leaving any hope of further storylines with those characters long behind. (Of course, absolutely the “right” of FH, their creator.) With God Emperor, I (the reader) was introduced to new characters with storylines just as complicated as those of the “Original Characters,” but for whom I could not develop an interest, feeling, as I did, that there was too abrupt of a cutting-off.

    There was another “jump” into Heretics of Dune and a further one into Chapterhouse: Dune, all too “far” from the original story for me. The stories just got… well… too… de trop for me (sorry, it’s the only term I can think of; something to the effect of “too much”) with Honoured Matres and sexual imprinting on children, etc. I did feel like someone was urging FH “sex it up! Push the boundaries!”

    Whatever FH’s intentions, I could never imagine Leto II and Ghamina as actual (in the physical sense) children, as that was pushing the boundaries too much for me, the “Mother-Father Game” taking on, as the characters admit, new meaning and realms of intimacy with which I was not comfortable. Oh, I get the idea, but it flirts too closely to the real world problem of the sexual objectification of children, and the argument of real-life pedophiles that some children are “ready” and have “mature inner lives.” Colour me pedestrian, but I had more of an “image” of them similar to the “Children of Dune” mini-series; pre-teens and teens, not two nine year olds. Then, as I said, Ghamina – and the other characters – are just dropped, as we’re into God Emperor and the endless procession of Duncan Idaho gholas.

    Leto II alone was not “enough” for me. I never “took” to the characters of Siona and Sheeana, much less Murbella. I must admit to constantly looking for the echos of the Original Characters in Books IV-VI.

    This interest in the Original Characters and “more” about them made me easily lured into Paul of Dune and Winds of Dune. I never really got into The Butlerian Jihad (the “take” of the Dune Encyclopedia was more engaging and made more “sense” than that disturbed mess of weird fantasies). I was given some of the House books as a present, but never ventured past the first pages.

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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Freakzilla » 21 Jun 2010 21:43

    Renegade Rev Mother wrote:So, reading McDune/NuDune, whatever, I am appalled that Brian Herbert’s own son and his partner can so cavalierly change the very essence of FH’s vision and think it can be easily “explained away.”


    Frank Herbert's son? :wink:
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 21 Jun 2010 21:48

    SandRider wrote:back to the sex thing for a minute to say that I really, really disliked all the sexual-based plotlines in the
    last two books (esp the Teg child porn) - at the time, I felt it was really beneath Frank and that he had
    allowed the times (Reagan's GoodTime Cocaine Train GreedFest) to push him into "salting" the book with
    gratuitous porn ...


    Yeah, I must admit I was not thrilled by it either. I like the last two books a lot, but that aspect of them was not welcome. I wonder whether this was a trend at the time (Heinlein, Asimov) that Herbert was influenced by.

    HBJ
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Freakzilla » 21 Jun 2010 21:52

    Renegade Rev Mother wrote:Sandrider shared his hope that perhaps I and “Reverend Mother Q” (whom I mistook for the Bene Gesserit Sister Quintinius Violet Chenoeh) might be amenable to a little wrasslin’ in quicksand. I declined (can’t speak for “Reverend Mother Q”) as I am not a fan of sand in my undies, though I expect Sandrider is a Fremen free-baller.


    I'll never read "death commando" in the same light again. :wink:
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Freakzilla » 21 Jun 2010 21:59

    Renegade Rev Mother wrote:Besides, it is not a good thing for a sietch to have its own Reverend Mother?


    It's absolutely necessary!

    (We do have reverendmotherQ though.)
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 21 Jun 2010 22:02

    Clearly you'll need to fight her for it, RRM. May I suggest ...

    ... ah, right. What Sandrider said. ;)

    HBJ
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    I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Renegade Rev Mother » 21 Jun 2010 22:17

    Renegade Rev Mother wrote:So, reading McDune/NuDune, whatever, I am appalled that Brian Herbert’s own son and his partner can so cavalierly change the very essence of FH’s vision and think it can be easily “explained away.”


    Freakzilla wrote:Frank Herbert's son? :wink:


    Mea culpa. :wink:

    Chig, is the following close to Fremen?:

    .لي خطأ ؛ الاعتذار

    ~ RRM
    "Our test is crisis and observation."
    "U tishuf hatt al-hudud / alman albaid. / Ayway libarr / adam almalum / tishuf liani..."
    "Bless the Maker and His water. Bless His coming and His going. May His passing cleanse the world, may He keep the world for His people. Bi-la kaifa!"
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Renegade Rev Mother » 21 Jun 2010 22:27

    Renegade Rev Mother wrote:Sandrider shared his hope that perhaps I and “Reverend Mother Q” (whom I mistook for the Bene Gesserit Sister Quintinius Violet Chenoeh) might be amenable to a little wrasslin’ in quicksand. I declined (can’t speak for “Reverend Mother Q”) as I am not a fan of sand in my undies, though I expect Sandrider is a Fremen free-baller.


    Freakzilla wrote:I'll never read "death commando" in the same light again. :wink:


    As a point of history, Freak, the Spartans fought (and the Ancient Greeks competed, in the Olympics) in nothing but their birthday suits, their armour and their honour. I would think the need for Water Discipline would preclude fighting in the altogether aside from invoking the Amtal Rule and other ritual, ceremonial (if no less deadly) fights.

    Puts a whole new spin (dangle?) on things, eh? :wink:

    ~ RRM
    "Our test is crisis and observation."
    "U tishuf hatt al-hudud / alman albaid. / Ayway libarr / adam almalum / tishuf liani..."
    "Bless the Maker and His water. Bless His coming and His going. May His passing cleanse the world, may He keep the world for His people. Bi-la kaifa!"
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Renegade Rev Mother » 21 Jun 2010 22:45

    Hunchback Jack wrote:Clearly you'll need to fight her for it, RRM. May I suggest ...

    ... ah, right. What Sandrider said. ;)

    HBJ


    Scrabbling like children in the sand would beneath the dignity of true Reverend Mothers. It would not do to have members of the same Missionaria Protectiva compete. This would cause dissension which would negate the Missionaria Protectiva's very purpose, not to mention create unhappiness amongst the siteches and tribes, which would accomplish little aside from annoy the Naibs. This is not the purpose, nor desire, of a good Fremen Reverend Mother.

    I was not aware that there was an active Reverend Mother in-sietch.

    ~ RRM
    "Our test is crisis and observation."
    "U tishuf hatt al-hudud / alman albaid. / Ayway libarr / adam almalum / tishuf liani..."
    "Bless the Maker and His water. Bless His coming and His going. May His passing cleanse the world, may He keep the world for His people. Bi-la kaifa!"
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby SandChigger » 22 Jun 2010 02:29

    Renegade Rev Mother wrote:Chig, is the following close to Fremen?:

    .لي خطأ ؛ الاعتذار

    Google translate is not our friend! ;)

    Liyya khata is more like "I have a mistake". Khatai [or ghaltati] would be "my mistake" ("my bad!"). Al-itidhar is "the apology".

    How about just Asif! (m) Asfa! (f) Asfin! (pl) "Sorry!" (dependent on gender of speaker in singular)

    Asfa! Khatai! "Sorry! My bad!" :)

    (I haven't decided what to do about the writing system yet. Herbert neutralized a lot of the consonant distinctions and ditched vowel quantity completely; keeping something like the modern spellings in the Arabic script would make Fremen just like modern English: a real PITA to write! ;) )
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    Re: Out in Open Sand

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 22 Jun 2010 02:34

    Chig, how do you know so many languages?

    HBJ
    "The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
    - Carl Sagan

    I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
    - Iain Banks
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