A "bestseller "no more!

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A "bestseller "no more!

Postby TheDukester » 26 Oct 2008 00:59

The New York Times hardcover fiction list for Nov. 2 (based on data from Oct. 18th):

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/books ... ref=slogin

Note the distinct lack of Paul of Dune! No top 15 (the actual list); no "also selling," which goes down to 35). Spin it any way you want to, HLP, but your latest hideous turd ain't selling. :)

Oh, and does anyone need more evidence that Kevin J. Anderson is, in fact, a complete fucking weasel? Check out the latest entry in his yawn-inducing blog:

http://www.dunenovels.com/blog/page067.html

Yeah, he just had to get one more New York Times reference in there. And guess why? He knew it wasn't going to be appearing on the next list.

(Also, three of the four weeks he mentions were in the "yeah, whatever" section that follows the actual top 15. Paul of Dune was, in fact, only really ranked for one week)

I wonder if Byron will post this for his drones over at www.only-five-people-post-here.com? After all, he was pretty damn quick to post the news when Paula debuted on the list. Fair is fair, right? :wink: :D
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Postby TheDukester » 26 Oct 2008 01:06

Paula's NYT rankings, in order:

10/5: 11
10/12: 18
10/19: 18
10/26: 25
11/2: somewhere south of 35.

Not good, by any measure. Never in the top 10, only one week on the official part of the list (top 15), and a drop from 18 to Nowheresville in two weeks. Yikes.

But, hey, HLP, at least you got that wonderful "review" from the Library Journal. Bwah!

Oh, somebody stop me! I'm rolling now! :)
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Postby SandRider » 26 Oct 2008 01:11

Isn't one of Simon's primary defenses of the noDune books that
they sell well & are read by millions of people ?

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Postby orald » 26 Oct 2008 02:33

Should we really consider those who read(or look at the cover pictures pretending to read) "people"? They're trained chimps, at best.

Speaking of which, do you think the actual trained chimps who labor at typing the shitquels actually read their own works? :P
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Postby SandChigger » 26 Oct 2008 03:46

Let's be fair.

Somewhere there's a probably-nice lady or two (He used to actually name the typist/transcriber, give them a little credit, but he hasn't even done that lately that I remember. Could be the same person, maybe not....) who takes Kevin's recordings and types them out. No need to call her (or them) a monkey or chimp without reason. ;)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

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Postby Seraphan » 26 Oct 2008 07:05

Even if it was nº1 on the list it wouldnt mean jack. With huge Dune letters on the cover what wouldnt sell? Even condoms with "Ride the Worm" written on it would sell like hell. But this shit is always bound to happen when they milk something dry, wich is why they're crossing fingers for the movie.

Why are you insulting trained chimps? They throw KJA's "things" (i dare not call them novels) against the wall 'cause they're easily confused with poo. That shows an interesting degree of intelligence.
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Postby Mr. Teg » 26 Oct 2008 09:24

SandRider wrote:Isn't one of Simon's primary defenses of the noDune books that
they sell well & are read by millions of people ?


Scientology claims to have 8 million members worldwide. (Sometimes, they claim 9 million members.)

The most generous worldwide estimates from non-Scientology sources put the total at fewer than 500,000.
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Postby Freakzilla » 26 Oct 2008 09:32

Seraphan wrote:Even condoms with "Ride the Worm" written on it would sell like hell.


I'd buy some and I don't use condoms.
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on Paul of Dung

Postby Sole Man » 26 Oct 2008 09:53

I'd steal those condoms...

Hurm...THE HOST by Stephanie Meyer is #11...that makes me angry...

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Postby Bijaz » 26 Oct 2008 10:42

McMillan, the new owners of TOR, most be thinking, "Oh, shit! We bought a lemon!"
They may take yairrrr Frreedom, but they ken nivverrrr take yairrrr Duuuunnne!

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Postby TheDukester » 26 Oct 2008 11:52

Point of comparison: last August, Sandworms debuted at #4 and spent four weeks in the top 11 before, presumably dropping off into the bottom half of the top 35 (again, it's only the top 15 that, technically, comprises the list of official best-sellers).

I'll try to find the data on how long it remained in the first 35, but, either way, the comparison isn't flattering to Paula of Dune-a. That's a book that spent one week on the official part of the list.

PoD also isn't being reviewed by any legitimate sources; they're not even bothering (despite Kevvie's flat-out LIE that it is receiving "rave, professional" reviews). That means that casual fans and/or potential buyers all over the country aren't even hearing about the book.

Not good, especially considering the marketing push that PoD got from TOR. Time for some new authors, HLP? :wink:
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Postby SandChigger » 26 Oct 2008 12:01

Seraphan wrote:With huge Dune letters on the cover what wouldnt sell?

That's been our argument up till now, but the point is...this thing HAS "Dune" on the cover and ISN'T selling! :lol:

:shock:

Damn...we need a new argument.

:lol:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: A "bestseller "no more!

Postby Frybread » 26 Oct 2008 14:19

TheDukester wrote:The New York Times hardcover fiction list for Nov. 2 (based on data from Oct. 18th):

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/books ... ref=slogin

Note the distinct lack of Paul of Dune! No top 15 (the actual list); no "also selling," which goes down to 35). Spin it any way you want to, HLP, but your latest hideous turd ain't selling. :)

Oh, and does anyone need more evidence that Kevin J. Anderson is, in fact, a complete fucking weasel? Check out the latest entry in his yawn-inducing blog:

http://www.dunenovels.com/blog/page067.html

Yeah, he just had to get one more New York Times reference in there. And guess why? He knew it wasn't going to be appearing on the next list.

(Also, three of the four weeks he mentions were in the "yeah, whatever" section that follows the actual top 15. Paul of Dune was, in fact, only really ranked for one week)

I wonder if Byron will post this for his drones over at www.only-five-people-post-here.com? After all, he was pretty damn quick to post the news when Paula debuted on the list. Fair is fair, right? :wink: :D


PoD also fell off the USA Today Top 150 list. It's highest ranking was No. 58 before if fell of the list completely.

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Postby SandChigger » 26 Oct 2008 16:01

Oh, Frybread, get up to speed! The last it was seen on that list was October 2nd, when it was at #126 or so.

The turd has splashed and is halfway out to sea. :lol:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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on this whole arguement

Postby Sole Man » 26 Oct 2008 16:15

I'm sorry but I fail to see the point here.

So its not selling, So what? What does that mean? Is it supposed to help our cuase? Do we even have a cuase?

Please fill me in.

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Postby SandRider » 26 Oct 2008 16:19

Well, it all started cause I needed some new bells for the cows we had, and the only place you could get bells in those days was over to Morristown, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. Soooo, I tied an onion on my belt, which was the style in those days, and my paw gave me three nickles for the bells. Nickles had pictures of bumblebees on them in those days, "Give me five bees for a quarter", we'd say. So I got on the train, and I'd tied an onion on my belt, which was the style in those days. It wasn't one of them white onions, neither, it was a big yellow one. We couldn't get white onions back then, cause of the war. So the train got to Morristown, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days, and I took the feathers out of my hat and went into the saloon to get a sasperilla. Back then, a sasperilla costed a nickle, and nickles had pictures of bumblebees on them. "Give me five bees for a quarter", we'd say. So anyway ....but then well, the horses got out and when I got back from town we had to pull my cousin Ray out from under the porch. Boy, was he mad ! He got killed in the war, not the last war, but the one before that. I'm cold again. Anyway, you can see it wasn't my fault at all, how was I to know that the girl had a wooden leg ? She never did wear a skirt, tho. Her and Ray ran off to Mexico and got caught up in the revolution down there, but by then, I was already in the coast guard.

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Postby SandChigger » 26 Oct 2008 18:48

Best response to Sloey yet! :lol:

Sloey...the big deal is that Byron has been saying all along that the BIG SALES RESULTS for the books prove that people like them = they are quality books and not shit like we've been saying they are.

So by Byron's logic the fact that Paul of Dune isn't selling well means that people don't like it and that it may very well be shit.

But of course Byron can't admit to that, so he pulls out the fact that Dune itself was almost impossible to sell to the publishers and that sales of some of Frank's Dune books weren't all that great at first, either.

(This is the same thing as Kevin saying "Well Frank made mistakes, too!" when you tell him there are errors in his books.)

Got it? ;)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby TheDukester » 26 Oct 2008 19:17

All excellent points, plus ...

Never forget we're talking about a group of people who are in it strictly for the money. For the fine folks at the HLP, holding the Dune license is no different than leasing an oil well: both can bring in money; neither is worth getting too attached to.

So ... PoD is clearly underperforming. The Jessica and Irulan books are hardly guaranteed sellers. The new Dune movie, with KJA co-producing, has "expensive flop" written all over it. Add of these things together, and you've got the recipe for a different landscape in the next three or so years: either no more McDune crap at all, or else KJA tossed out on his ass and a real writer brought onboard.
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Postby Sole Man » 26 Oct 2008 19:22

SandRider wrote:Well, it all started cause I needed some new bells for the cows we had.


I feel obligated to say it:

I got a FEVER, and the PERSCRIPTION is more COWBELL!

To Chig: Alright, I see now. I see EVERYthing now...

To nobody: THE PORTABLE CRUMDEGOEN has more wisdom in it than THE BIBLE.

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Postby SandChigger » 26 Oct 2008 20:13

TheDukester wrote:either no more McDune crap at all, or else KJA tossed out on his ass and a real writer brought onboard.

But would ANY REAL WRITER worth his salt undertake the job at this late date, seeing what a fucked up mess they've made of it?
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby SandRider » 26 Oct 2008 20:27

Chigger wrote:...he pulls out the fact that Dune itself was almost impossible to sell to the publishers and that sales of some of Frank's Dune books weren't all that great at first, either.


I kinda thought noduneman handed Bryon his tight ass on that point -
you can't compare the sales of science fiction books in 1965 to sales
in 2008. The general readership for it is exponential now. And of course,
Herbert's book was extremely innovative and misunderstood in the
beginning. Every eight grader in the country has read a Star Wars book.
Kevin's not breaking any new ground or taking any literary risks. He's
writing a script for a Comic Book.

Then Chig wrote:But would ANY REAL WRITER worth his salt undertake the job at this late date, seeing what a fucked up mess they've made of it?


You'd have to start all over, and act like the new books were never
written. To do this, the HLP, or whoever the REAL children of Frank are,
would have to repudiate Kevin. They'd have to have a press conference
and claim Kevin kidnapped and brainwashed Brian, fed ayahuasca tea to Byron,
and held them all at gunpoint while humpback whales pushed
ping pong balls with verbs and nouns into plastic tubes to write the books.

Then they'd have to find a real writer who had actually read Dune (or
atleast seen the movie) Even then, you people would still bitch and
whine, because you're all just a bunch fascist bitching whiners.

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Postby TheDukester » 26 Oct 2008 20:46

Oh, hell, the entire concept of a "best-seller list" was different back then, and he knows it. The entire process bears no resemblance at all to how the data is gathered today. Night and day, apples and oranges, preeks and smart people: pick your analogy; either way, it's not the same thing.

And it's not like Dune was some forgotten masterpiece that languished until FH died or something like that. It was published in 1965 and won the Hugo and the Nebula in 1966 ... a year later! No one needed this whole "time will tell" gibberish that Byron likes to spout. The book was published and almost instantly recognized as a classic. Game, set, match.

Byron and his preek minions want it both ways: when Sandworms was selling like its hair was on fire, it was all "it's great; just look at all the thousands of happy readers!" But when Paula is already showing up on the bargain-book tables, it's "oh, sales don't mean anything; only time will tell." Such an amazing level of bullshit.

Seriously, Byron, I have two words for you: shut the fuck up.
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Postby GamePlayer » 26 Oct 2008 21:00

SandRider wrote:Well, it all started cause I needed some new bells for the cows we had, and the only place you could get bells in those days was over to Morristown, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. Soooo, I tied an onion on my belt, which was the style in those days, and my paw gave me three nickles for the bells. Nickles had pictures of bumblebees on them in those days, "Give me five bees for a quarter", we'd say. So I got on the train, and I'd tied an onion on my belt, which was the style in those days. It wasn't one of them white onions, neither, it was a big yellow one. We couldn't get white onions back then, cause of the war. So the train got to Morristown, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days, and I took the feathers out of my hat and went into the saloon to get a sasperilla. Back then, a sasperilla costed a nickle, and nickles had pictures of bumblebees on them. "Give me five bees for a quarter", we'd say. So anyway ....but then well, the horses got out and when I got back from town we had to pull my cousin Ray out from under the porch. Boy, was he mad ! He got killed in the war, not the last war, but the one before that. I'm cold again. Anyway, you can see it wasn't my fault at all, how was I to know that the girl had a wooden leg ? She never did wear a skirt, tho. Her and Ray ran off to Mexico and got caught up in the revolution down there, but by then, I was already in the coast guard.


This is fucking brilliant :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
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Postby SandRider » 26 Oct 2008 21:04

Well, thank you, but some of it's just Granpa Simpson.
(bumble bee nickles, onions on the belt)
(there's another one buried over there in that
chat I had with Simon last week, his defense
or X-box, one)

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Postby TheDukester » 26 Oct 2008 21:09

SandChigger wrote:But would ANY REAL WRITER worth his salt undertake the job at this late date, seeing what a fucked up mess they've made of it?

That's a fair question ... I'll go with "undecided, but learning toward no."

They could try to take things in a slightly new direction, though. Maybe short story anthologies? Maybe "extended universe" stuff open to multiple authors? I don't know, but I do know that if they fire KJA, post-movie, they're essentially firing Brian, too. He'll be 65 or 66 at that point, with his only "writing" experience in the last 10 years coming with KJA. I don't see that dog learning any new tricks ...

No, I could see them shit-canning KJA, letting Brian graze out in the pasture, and "opening things up" in a real Lucas-esque fashion.
"Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.


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