The notes... (yeah, right)

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SandChigger
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Postby SandChigger » 30 Nov 2008 03:54

Don't know about that ... but I did witness Mrs Southworth flay several people alive with just a glance. :shock:


(Wait a minute ... she was my English teacher... :?: :?: :?: )

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Postby chanilover » 30 Nov 2008 09:15

I cross the 7 as well, although most people in the UK don't. A lot of people in Europe cross the 7, as their 4 looks a bit like a 7.

So what's going on here? Frank Herbert signs a book in 1974 without a line through the 7, yet the disks for the notes and outline have a line through the 7 Did he change the way he wrote 7 in later life, or am I missing something and it's common knowledge that Frank Herbert didn't write on the covers of the disks?
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Postby SandRider » 30 Nov 2008 10:45

that's what I'm trying to determine, if only for myself.

I'm of the opinion now that the disk labels are both in Frank's hand,
which calls into question Brian's statement that they were labelled
by "two people" (which two ?)
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Postby GamePlayer » 30 Nov 2008 10:46

The notes have been and always will be, an invented grab for legitimacy. Even if they did exist and had some kind of pertinent information, they might lead to an additional book; perhaps two at most.

Besides KJA has said now, over and over like an abandoned car alarm, how his head is just filled with ideas and they just don't stop. So it's clear he's long ago become the sole "creative" (*chortle*) force in the Prequels.

Whether the notes actually exist or not and what they contain has really long since passed beyond any relevance, except as trivia for real Dune fans who would like to see them published.
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Postby SandRider » 30 Nov 2008 10:52

the issue I'm focusing on right now is not about the notes, or the contents
of the disks - just the Truth of who's hand is on the labels ...

If it is decided that the disks are in fact in Frank's hand, that is atleast
an indication that some form of notes did exist, regardless of how they
were used by The Boys.

If it is decided that the disk labels are not in Frank's hand, that adds to
the argument that the notes (specifically for Dune7) did not exist and the
whole thing is a hoax created and promoted by the HLP.
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Postby Freakzilla » 30 Nov 2008 12:09

Bijaz wrote:I heard that crossing the seven was common in the military. Freak?


No, they don't really emphasize written communication, it's not secure.
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Postby SandChigger » 30 Nov 2008 16:13

(Did someone just "chortle" above? :shock: )

Ahem...

One thing that keeps bothering me is how no one else seems to have known about the safe deposit boxes, not Brian (who was supposedly so buddy-buddy with dear ole dad at the end) or Theresa, the new wife. Frank obviously wasn't making anything like regular trips to the bank/S&L to update the contents, or the family around weren't paying attention or didn't bother to find out where he was going. (I wonder if they're not something he did on the spur of the moment one day and maybe forgot about even himself, when his health started failing.)

There's also the question of why it took so long for the S&L to contact the estate lawyers. Establishments like that generally don't lend out safety deposit boxes (two there were, IIRC) gratis. Did FH pay ahead for over a decade? Did they let it slide for a decade because he was a famous writer? But if they knew who he was, why didn't they hear that he had died? Paperwork oversight?

Lots of questions, probably never to be answered. :roll:
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Postby Seraphan » 01 Dec 2008 10:47

Those two have laid out too many contradictory stories about the notes, the interview in the audiobook compared to the other stuff they said about it being thousand and thousand of pages, *pfff* yeah right. But doesnt it prove how much of a shitty writter Kevin "Take a Hike" Anderson is that his own imcompetence provides proof that he is not following anything done by Frank?
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Postby Omphalos » 01 Dec 2008 12:09

SandChigger wrote:(Did someone just "chortle" above? :shock: )

Ahem...

One thing that keeps bothering me is how no one else seems to have known about the safe deposit boxes, not Brian (who was supposedly so buddy-buddy with dear ole dad at the end) or Theresa, the new wife. Frank obviously wasn't making anything like regular trips to the bank/S&L to update the contents, or the family around weren't paying attention or didn't bother to find out where he was going. (I wonder if they're not something he did on the spur of the moment one day and maybe forgot about even himself, when his health started failing.)

There's also the question of why it took so long for the S&L to contact the estate lawyers. Establishments like that generally don't lend out safety deposit boxes (two there were, IIRC) gratis. Did FH pay ahead for over a decade? Did they let it slide for a decade because he was a famous writer? But if they knew who he was, why didn't they hear that he had died? Paperwork oversight?

Lots of questions, probably never to be answered. :roll:


Im not defending this bullshit "notes" story at all. Personally I think that its either a total fabrication, or highly exaggurated crappola, but the safety deposit box element is not so hard to believe. Ive done a ton of wills & trusts and probate work in the past. This kind of thing happens frequently with the wealthy. Safety deposit boxes can be bought for long periods of time with one payment, and often are. Some banks let people essentially lease them forever, only checking for evidence of death after the lease term has expired. In a large bank with a large vault it could be fifty years before records are checked. Hell, I used to be a platform teller in a community bank, and while I was there a few boxes were opened forcibly decades after the renter died.

It also could have been that the bank did not even contact the family. They had hired an estate lawyer, and one of his jobs was probably to go through FH's documents looking for evidence of assets that the family did not know about. Why do I not have a hard time guessing that this is exactly what happened? Anyway, the lawyer might have found the contract in FH's papers, and contacted the bank with a death certificate and a copy of the will. That is all they would need to crack the box.

Look over on T(A)U. The name of hte estate lawyer is there. I learned it once and posted it for anyone to see. I doubt that he woudl say anything, but they have given us his name, which tends to lend creedence to the story at least that a box existed, IMHO.

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Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 01 Dec 2008 12:26

SandChigger wrote:...or Theresa, the new wife.


Nice catch, Chig.

For me, that could be the key about all this story of secret notes. That woman married Frank on his last days of life, and how she could have never known about the Dune 7 outline and safety deposit boxes?

"My lovely Theresa, I'm going to my secret safety deposit box to save there the mysterious Dune 7 outline, do you want me to buy something from the market?

Oh? what? Do wherever you want, but I'm not going to make your dinner, do you understand? humm...crazy science fiction writers...always suffering from paranoia... "
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Postby GamePlayer » 01 Dec 2008 12:53

SandRider wrote:the issue I'm focusing on right now is not about the notes, or the contents
of the disks - just the Truth of who's hand is on the labels ...

If it is decided that the disks are in fact in Frank's hand, that is atleast
an indication that some form of notes did exist, regardless of how they
were used by The Boys.

If it is decided that the disk labels are not in Frank's hand, that adds to
the argument that the notes (specifically for Dune7) did not exist and the
whole thing is a hoax created and promoted by the HLP.


I realize that, but I don't see how any of this can reach any kind of definitive conclusion. We've had this topic of discussion go round before and no one was able to say anything worthwhile or substantial about the handwriting or signatures. Unless someone is conducting an official investigation, this thread is basically masturbation.

So what if the notes did or did not exist? At this point its all irrelevant. The damage has been done; the HLP has published, what is it now, 10 lousy books? What difference does it make now if Frank's handwriting is on a couple of floppies? Just so you can say KJA is a hack and a liar? That's already been established a thousand times over and it doesn't look like any critic is waiting for an official seal of approval to say so :)
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Postby Frybread » 01 Dec 2008 12:59

Seraphan wrote:Those two have laid out too many contradictory stories about the notes, the interview in the audiobook compared to the other stuff they said about it being thousand and thousand of pages, *pfff* yeah right. But doesnt it prove how much of a shitty writter Kevin "Take a Hike" Anderson is that his own imcompetence provides proof that he is not following anything done by Frank?


I agree. The notes story that the Hacks Twain have told has differed significantly in different interviews, which leads me to believe that it's a lie to legitimize their boring and worthless "Dune" books.

Edited to add that Kevin's discarding of FH's themes is not only due to his incompetence, but his and his bitch's arrogance. I'm sure he -- and Brian -- thinks he has better ideas and can tell a better story than Frank.

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Postby Ampoliros » 01 Dec 2008 13:05

Maybe we're going the wrong way about this: What if the "notes" exist, and all they say is

"Brian, if you want to continue writing in the Dune Universe, hire the absolutely most craptastic writer you can find, and totally ignore, change and mutate as much as you can.
Love, Dad.

p.s. my reason for asking you to do this is so that no one will be able to mistake the difference between my legacy and your lame attempts to cash in on it even more.
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Postby SandRider » 01 Dec 2008 13:07

GP wrote:I don't see how any of this can reach any kind of definitive conclusion.


probably not in my lifetime, of which there ain't much more, and maybe
not in yours. But if Frank Hebert's Dune is in fact the Masterpiece
of American Literature I've claimed it to be, then it will not end here.

Future historians will scour over the evidence, eventually the papers
Frank left behind will be revealed. I see this as groundwork only.
Putting the current evidence in the HLP's face and their on-the-record
responses have already revealed important clues to the Truth.

And I understand this has been discussed before - as I said above, I'm
trying to settle this in my own mind only, using the evidence and thoughts
others have provided here.
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Postby Frybread » 01 Dec 2008 13:09

Ampoliros wrote:Maybe we're going the wrong way about this: What if the "notes" exist, and all they say is

"Brian, if you want to continue writing in the Dune Universe, hire the absolutely most craptastic writer you can find, and totally ignore, change and mutate as much as you can.
Love, Dad.

p.s. my reason for asking you to do this is so that no one will be able to mistake the difference between my legacy and your lame attempts to cash in on it even more.


p.p.s. I would suggest hiring that sleazy, fat, balding kid who is really good at writing shallow, space opera books quickly.

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Postby Seraphan » 01 Dec 2008 13:34

thinks he has better ideas and can tell a better story than Frank.

That's another thing about that retard that pisses the royal fuckness out of me. He's too stupid to understand Mary Shelly's Frankenstein that he thinks it's just a pretty story.
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Postby GamePlayer » 01 Dec 2008 14:11

SandRider wrote:
GP wrote:I don't see how any of this can reach any kind of definitive conclusion.


probably not in my lifetime, of which there ain't much more, and maybe
not in yours. But if Frank Hebert's Dune is in fact the Masterpiece
of American Literature I've claimed it to be, then it will not end here.

Future historians will scour over the evidence, eventually the papers
Frank left behind will be revealed. I see this as groundwork only.
Putting the current evidence in the HLP's face and their on-the-record
responses have already revealed important clues to the Truth.

And I understand this has been discussed before - as I said above, I'm
trying to settle this in my own mind only, using the evidence and thoughts
others have provided here.


I suppose. But this is just a discussion board. It's not like any of us are uni profs engaged in research for an upcoming series on the works of literature great Frank Herbert :)
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Postby SandChigger » 01 Dec 2008 18:28

Afterthought: SandRider, have you considered that Brian et al. may be truly contemptible and destroy anything that doesn't corroborate their version of reality?
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Postby Omphalos » 01 Dec 2008 19:15

SandChigger wrote:Afterthought: SandRider, have you considered that Brian et al. may be truly contemptible and destroy anything that doesn't corroborate their version of reality?


Chig: I tried to answer this but instead of hitting "quote" I hit "edit." I'm really sorry for screwing up your post. I see that I deleted a lot of what you said. My answer was this:

I certainly have. I used to rail about them not putting that stuff in the FH archives mainly because I do not trust them at all.

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Postby SandRider » 01 Dec 2008 20:09

GP wrote:But this is just a discussion board. It's not like any of us are uni profs engaged in research for an upcoming series on the works of literature great Frank Herbert


don't underestimate the importance of what is going on here. the bare bones
and quite a few specifics of the story are available here. historians are just
now starting to cope with the information presented on the interenet. It could
well be that this forum and those like it will provide valuable data to the
future historians. And you never know who's lurking here ....

Chig wrote:have you considered that Brian et al. may be truly contemptible and destroy anything that doesn't corroborate their version of reality?


absolutely. if I were on their side, I would have already advised that. and it's
likely that if it were up to Keith, they would already be destroyed. Perhaps
Brian and the other actual family members of the HLP value Frank's papers
enough to prevent their wanton destruction. And as it was suggested, we may
see the notes/papers/etc in a published form after the current cash cow has been
milked dry.
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Postby Rakis » 01 Dec 2008 23:48

Ampoliros wrote:Maybe we're going the wrong way about this: What if the "notes" exist, and all they say is

"Brian, if you want to continue writing in the Dune Universe, hire the absolutely most craptastic writer you can find, and totally ignore, change and mutate as much as you can.
Love, Dad.

p.s. my reason for asking you to do this is so that no one will be able to mistake the difference between my legacy and your lame attempts to cash in on it even more.


Makes sense... :)
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Postby Seraphan » 02 Dec 2008 09:29

SandRider wrote:absolutely. if I were on their side, I would have already advised that. and it's
likely that if it were up to Keith, they would already be destroyed. Perhaps
Brian and the other actual family members of the HLP value Frank's papers
enough to prevent their wanton destruction. And as it was suggested, we may
see the notes/papers/etc in a published form after the current cash cow has been
milked dry.

I certainly hope not, they could at least keep them for the sake of other family members. But to steep so low as to destroy another author's notes and creations for the sake of his own wallet and ego seems to be exactly the kind of thing Kevin "Take a Hike" Anderson would do.
The guy really is the fucking devil :evil:
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Postby SandChigger » 02 Dec 2008 16:09

AAAAAgh! Censorship! :shock:



:lol:

(Fook me if I remember what I wrote. Oh well, lost like tears in the rain.... :P )
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Postby Serkanner » 02 Dec 2008 16:43

SandChigger wrote:A lost like tears in the rain.... :P )


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Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."

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Postby SandChigger » 02 Dec 2008 18:29

;)

Just watched it again weekend before last. Love it. (Have no idea how many times I've seen it.)
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