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Posted: 21 Sep 2008 21:11
by GamePlayer
Frank Herbert would never write Dune books as shit as the KJA/BH books. That's all the proof I need to know that the infamous "notes" didn't go very far.

Posted: 21 Sep 2008 22:51
by Rakis
I don't get the Fanboys part...

Is he saying that i'm a fanboy of Frank Herbert?

HELL YEAH !!!

:FH small:

That's way better than Talifan...

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 04:04
by SandRider
ImageImage

I'm not a handwriting expert, but these two labels don't look like the same hand to me.
Granted, one is printed & one is cursive ..... The capital "D"s are similar in slope, and the 7s
look similar - without more examples of print vs cursive for comparison, tho, it's tough.
And then again, I'm suspicious of everything involved with the HLP....
I did a cursory net search for an image of Frank's handwriting, but didn't even find an
autograph. Any body have a sample ?

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 04:12
by Omphalos
Ive hired handwriting experts in the past. They are all idiots. There is no science to that science.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 04:21
by SandChigger
The fact that the floppies are two different brands (Tandy and 3M) is probably significant: they were no doubt bought and labelled at different times. The different in time could be enough to explain the difference in the handwriting. (Does your handwriting stay the same? Is it the same now as it was five, ten years ago? Mine varies, is all over the place. ;) )

While I know they'll never release the information, I wonder if the dipshits had enough sense to record the file information from the floppies, like creation and modification dates, etc. THAT's the sort of information someone would need to sort out when Frank was thinking about whatever is in the notes and outline.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 11:11
by loremaster
What they wrote about could have been in the notes (personally, i doubt it), but that isnt the point.

The point is that, even if they have followed Frank's ideas exactly as he recorded them, it's still shit.

The notes arent what make it good or bad, its the writing which does.

Did the Duke send buyers for jessica or was she forced upon him? Either, if written by Frank, is acceptable.

Would I have wanted to write about the confrontations and politics of a machine dependant society, if it had been written by Frank? You betcha.

Would I have bought D7 knowing it contained a machine curse from human history? If it had been written by frank? You betcha!

The easiest way to flip it: If Frank had been given KJA's outline, how much better would the book be?

It would have contained philosophical musings on dependancy (again), on technology, on enslavement, on apathy, on just what it means to be human. It would have been a million-fold better book.

It's not in the notes, it's in the execution.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 11:26
by Seraphan
I dont need the so called "notes" to prove that what they are going is against what Frank Herbert did. That bit in Sandworms when Leto II, with his memories recovered, says that his golden path was a mistake is more than enough proof.
Frank laid out his ideas in interviews, in his books, in conventions, etc, always defending them. If anyone believes what those two hacks say then they are in desperate need of brain surgery.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 13:04
by TheDukester
Thankfully, I've never been that worried about "the notes" — I've chosen other areas of this drama to be obsessed about.

From the very first time I read that DJ Hacky-Hack and The Other Guy had discovered some sort of cache of notes, I thought, "Oh, how convenient." And given the fact the KJA is pretty much the biggest weasel on the planet, I had (and have) no doubt at all that he has (and will) just use these alleged notes as the ultimate Get Out Of Jail Free card. He can always say "Frank said so" without, of course, ever actually producing these notes.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 13:57
by DuneFishUK
I believe in the notes! :)

The writing on the floppy looks Herbertarian to me - on both of them that is. Look at the 'e's for example. One floppy label is clearly written to be understood, the other is scribbled down without too much thought.

The problem is - the hacks enjoy being, and want to be seen as, "creative" they took the fact that FH continually pushed Dune is new and strange directions to mean that they should so the same. Only FH did it to make a point, they do it because they want to work to their "strengths" and enjoy the continued support of their pretarded fanbase.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 15:12
by SandRider
I've had enlarged images of the labels up on the monitor today, and have been staring at them - they're the same hand and most likely the same pen - Dunefish says it looks like Frank's hand to him. I still can't find an image of Frank's handwriting for comparison. But I know I've seen some somewhere I can't recall, maybe even pre-internet. I remember a typescript with his notes or revisions, in the margins and over crossed out text. I just want to satisfy in my own mind if those labels were written by Frank, regardless of the disks contents or the way the boys used or misused them ....

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 20:09
by Mr. Teg
SandRider wrote:ImageImage

I'm not a handwriting expert, but these two labels don't look like the same hand to me.
Granted, one is printed & one is cursive ..... The capital "D"s are similar in slope, and the 7s
look similar - without more examples of print vs cursive for comparison, tho, it's tough.
And then again, I'm suspicious of everything involved with the HLP....
I did a cursory net search for an image of Frank's handwriting, but didn't even find an
autograph. Any body have a sample ?



Actually, during the recorded Q&A of the last book tour, Brian specifically says the handwriting was by 2 different people, which brings us back to whole McNeilly issue.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 20:19
by Freakzilla
SandRider wrote:I still can't find an image of Frank's handwriting for comparison.


Image

Image

Looks like his handwriting varied quite a bit.

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 01:53
by Mr. Teg
Freakzilla wrote:
SandRider wrote:I still can't find an image of Frank's handwriting for comparison.


Image

Image

Looks like his handwriting varied quite a bit.


The 7s are different.

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 10:06
by DuneFishUK
Mr. Teg wrote:Actually, during the recorded Q&A of the last book tour, Brian specifically says the handwriting was by 2 different people, which brings us back to whole McNeilly issue.


Really? They do look different, but the more I look, the more similar they look. Angles, shapes and stuff. Admittedly it could just be a time-and-place thing - I recently bought a signed 1951 book and the writing in that is suprisingly similar to my granddad's writing from the same era.

Just in case though :
ImageImage

Actually... :shock:

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 14:28
by SandRider
ImageImageImage
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Posted: 29 Nov 2008 17:48
by Omphalos
Brian's and Frank's handwriting looks very similar.

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 18:47
by Bijaz
I heard that crossing the seven was common in the military. Freak?

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 20:26
by SandChigger
(Really? I picked it up from my seventh-grade math teacher. :shock: )

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 23:23
by Tleszer
Bijaz wrote:I heard that crossing the seven was common in the military. Freak?


I probably also picked it up in math. However, I only do that if I'm in the mood (which I know is only for women and cattle :roll: ).

Posted: 30 Nov 2008 00:42
by Rakis
Baraka Bryan wrote:i picked it up from a math teacher too, as well as crossing a 'z' to differentiate it from a 2 (because my handwriting is so messy)


That "z" thingy is news to me... :)

So...do we come to the conclusion that all math teachers are retired Green Berets? :wink:

Posted: 30 Nov 2008 03:54
by SandChigger
Don't know about that ... but I did witness Mrs Southworth flay several people alive with just a glance. :shock:


(Wait a minute ... she was my English teacher... :?: :?: :?: )

Posted: 30 Nov 2008 09:15
by chanilover
I cross the 7 as well, although most people in the UK don't. A lot of people in Europe cross the 7, as their 4 looks a bit like a 7.

So what's going on here? Frank Herbert signs a book in 1974 without a line through the 7, yet the disks for the notes and outline have a line through the 7 Did he change the way he wrote 7 in later life, or am I missing something and it's common knowledge that Frank Herbert didn't write on the covers of the disks?

Posted: 30 Nov 2008 10:45
by SandRider
that's what I'm trying to determine, if only for myself.

I'm of the opinion now that the disk labels are both in Frank's hand,
which calls into question Brian's statement that they were labelled
by "two people" (which two ?)

Posted: 30 Nov 2008 10:46
by GamePlayer
The notes have been and always will be, an invented grab for legitimacy. Even if they did exist and had some kind of pertinent information, they might lead to an additional book; perhaps two at most.

Besides KJA has said now, over and over like an abandoned car alarm, how his head is just filled with ideas and they just don't stop. So it's clear he's long ago become the sole "creative" (*chortle*) force in the Prequels.

Whether the notes actually exist or not and what they contain has really long since passed beyond any relevance, except as trivia for real Dune fans who would like to see them published.

Posted: 30 Nov 2008 10:52
by SandRider
the issue I'm focusing on right now is not about the notes, or the contents
of the disks - just the Truth of who's hand is on the labels ...

If it is decided that the disks are in fact in Frank's hand, that is atleast
an indication that some form of notes did exist, regardless of how they
were used by The Boys.

If it is decided that the disk labels are not in Frank's hand, that adds to
the argument that the notes (specifically for Dune7) did not exist and the
whole thing is a hoax created and promoted by the HLP.