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Posted: 21 Sep 2008 11:08
by chanilover
Serkanner wrote:dunenovels.com Forum Index » Paul of Dune » Dragon-Con

Just for laughs:

author: batitude

The fact is the outline (which was only 34 pages) has been published in a completed form. As Hunters of DUNE and Sandworms of DUNE.

I have met Brian and Kevin on several occasions(as well as the rest of the Herbert Family) and it has been made VERY clear that they worked directly off FH's outline for the book.

They also used his notes for the creation of the other trilogy's (he was going to do the Butlerian Jihad with Brian before his death).

While Brian and Kevin's style dffers from Frank's the core story is the same he would have produced had he finished the series. I can't really understand the continuing accusations by fanboy's that they somehow made it all up.

I've probably read the original DUNE more times than this entire forum combined and have read each successive book upon it's release and I find no need for the notes to be published.
From a publishing standpoint there was enough challenge to get the complete DUNE books published (They switched publishers after the prequels) It would be virtually impossible to get a book of notes published.

Maybe just maybe if the Peter Berg Film is a HUGE success they might publish the notes as part of a larger DUNE history.

For those looking for more insight into Frank Herbert I would recommend DREAMER of DUNE which is one of the finest Biographies I've ever read.

Ray Feighery
Seattle, WA


Who is this asshole?


What a fucking arselicker (I mean Ray Feighery). Dunenovels is now the shittest site on the web, and it's Byron's fault.

Posted: 21 Sep 2008 11:18
by TheDukester
SandChigger wrote:Is he maybe connected with one of the publishers?

My first thought when I lurked past that last night (and those days are coming to an end ... My God, there is nothing of interest there. It's pathetic).

Anyway, that guy has "complete shill" written all over him. Note that everything he says is completely generic: no details, no favorite scenes, no real opinion other than "it's just as good as FH's stuff and you guys are big meanies." It's the Shill Manifesto.

I'm guessing TOR person and/or friend of Byron's. Either way, his posts contain zero actual value.

Posted: 21 Sep 2008 11:23
by Ampoliros
wasn't it the outline that was 2.5 pages and the notes 35?

He sounds like their publicist or contact with the publisher more than a Dune fan.

Posted: 21 Sep 2008 12:08
by Lisan Al-Gaib
Disentangling the post:

They also used his notes for the creation of the other trilogy's (he was going to do the Butlerian Jihad with Brian before his death).


False. Frank Herbert was planning to write the Butlerian Jihad with Dr. Willis McNellis, since he had said in his e-mails. The Jehanne Butler plot was developed by McNellis with the approval of FH. They had already written the first chapter.

I've probably read the original DUNE more times than this entire forum combined and have read each successive book upon it's release and I find no need for the notes to be published.
From a publishing standpoint there was enough challenge to get the complete DUNE books published (They switched publishers after the prequels) It would be virtually impossible to get a book of notes published.


False. Nowadays many notes of famous writes have been published making very much success. I don't think why FH notes would be the opposite.



While Brian and Kevin's style dffers from Frank's the core story is the same he would have produced had he finished the series. I can't really understand the continuing accusations by fanboy's that they somehow made it all up.


I'm felling happy with that paragraph. We are making very much noise, aren't we?

Posted: 21 Sep 2008 17:25
by A Thing of Eternity
I'd love for them to think that whole "publishing the notes wouldn't sell" bullshit through. BH has published The Notebook of Frank Herbert's Dune Which is a completely pointless collection of quotes from the book with pretty boarders on the pages - people bought that useless thing why not a collection of never before seen FH writing? He also published two books which were biographical and/or contained large amounts of rough note material - people bought those. He also published an entire book of FH's poetry (mostly faily bad haiku IMO) and people bought that.

He has already published four books worth of stuff that is decidedly less interesting than The Notes/Outline detailing the finally of one of the most popular SF series ever.

Bull. Shit. They didn't follow whatever rough notes there is. If they had they would publish them because it would shut us up (and we know how much they would love to shut us up) and it would make them cash (and we really know how much they love cash). In their position no one in their right mind would keep the notes from being published if they did in fact fit with Hunters and Sandworms.

Posted: 21 Sep 2008 21:11
by GamePlayer
Frank Herbert would never write Dune books as shit as the KJA/BH books. That's all the proof I need to know that the infamous "notes" didn't go very far.

Posted: 21 Sep 2008 22:51
by Rakis
I don't get the Fanboys part...

Is he saying that i'm a fanboy of Frank Herbert?

HELL YEAH !!!

:FH small:

That's way better than Talifan...

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 04:04
by SandRider
ImageImage

I'm not a handwriting expert, but these two labels don't look like the same hand to me.
Granted, one is printed & one is cursive ..... The capital "D"s are similar in slope, and the 7s
look similar - without more examples of print vs cursive for comparison, tho, it's tough.
And then again, I'm suspicious of everything involved with the HLP....
I did a cursory net search for an image of Frank's handwriting, but didn't even find an
autograph. Any body have a sample ?

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 04:12
by Omphalos
Ive hired handwriting experts in the past. They are all idiots. There is no science to that science.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 04:21
by SandChigger
The fact that the floppies are two different brands (Tandy and 3M) is probably significant: they were no doubt bought and labelled at different times. The different in time could be enough to explain the difference in the handwriting. (Does your handwriting stay the same? Is it the same now as it was five, ten years ago? Mine varies, is all over the place. ;) )

While I know they'll never release the information, I wonder if the dipshits had enough sense to record the file information from the floppies, like creation and modification dates, etc. THAT's the sort of information someone would need to sort out when Frank was thinking about whatever is in the notes and outline.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 11:11
by loremaster
What they wrote about could have been in the notes (personally, i doubt it), but that isnt the point.

The point is that, even if they have followed Frank's ideas exactly as he recorded them, it's still shit.

The notes arent what make it good or bad, its the writing which does.

Did the Duke send buyers for jessica or was she forced upon him? Either, if written by Frank, is acceptable.

Would I have wanted to write about the confrontations and politics of a machine dependant society, if it had been written by Frank? You betcha.

Would I have bought D7 knowing it contained a machine curse from human history? If it had been written by frank? You betcha!

The easiest way to flip it: If Frank had been given KJA's outline, how much better would the book be?

It would have contained philosophical musings on dependancy (again), on technology, on enslavement, on apathy, on just what it means to be human. It would have been a million-fold better book.

It's not in the notes, it's in the execution.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 11:26
by Seraphan
I dont need the so called "notes" to prove that what they are going is against what Frank Herbert did. That bit in Sandworms when Leto II, with his memories recovered, says that his golden path was a mistake is more than enough proof.
Frank laid out his ideas in interviews, in his books, in conventions, etc, always defending them. If anyone believes what those two hacks say then they are in desperate need of brain surgery.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 13:04
by TheDukester
Thankfully, I've never been that worried about "the notes" — I've chosen other areas of this drama to be obsessed about.

From the very first time I read that DJ Hacky-Hack and The Other Guy had discovered some sort of cache of notes, I thought, "Oh, how convenient." And given the fact the KJA is pretty much the biggest weasel on the planet, I had (and have) no doubt at all that he has (and will) just use these alleged notes as the ultimate Get Out Of Jail Free card. He can always say "Frank said so" without, of course, ever actually producing these notes.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 13:57
by DuneFishUK
I believe in the notes! :)

The writing on the floppy looks Herbertarian to me - on both of them that is. Look at the 'e's for example. One floppy label is clearly written to be understood, the other is scribbled down without too much thought.

The problem is - the hacks enjoy being, and want to be seen as, "creative" they took the fact that FH continually pushed Dune is new and strange directions to mean that they should so the same. Only FH did it to make a point, they do it because they want to work to their "strengths" and enjoy the continued support of their pretarded fanbase.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 15:12
by SandRider
I've had enlarged images of the labels up on the monitor today, and have been staring at them - they're the same hand and most likely the same pen - Dunefish says it looks like Frank's hand to him. I still can't find an image of Frank's handwriting for comparison. But I know I've seen some somewhere I can't recall, maybe even pre-internet. I remember a typescript with his notes or revisions, in the margins and over crossed out text. I just want to satisfy in my own mind if those labels were written by Frank, regardless of the disks contents or the way the boys used or misused them ....

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 20:09
by Mr. Teg
SandRider wrote:ImageImage

I'm not a handwriting expert, but these two labels don't look like the same hand to me.
Granted, one is printed & one is cursive ..... The capital "D"s are similar in slope, and the 7s
look similar - without more examples of print vs cursive for comparison, tho, it's tough.
And then again, I'm suspicious of everything involved with the HLP....
I did a cursory net search for an image of Frank's handwriting, but didn't even find an
autograph. Any body have a sample ?



Actually, during the recorded Q&A of the last book tour, Brian specifically says the handwriting was by 2 different people, which brings us back to whole McNeilly issue.

Posted: 28 Nov 2008 20:19
by Freakzilla
SandRider wrote:I still can't find an image of Frank's handwriting for comparison.


Image

Image

Looks like his handwriting varied quite a bit.

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 01:53
by Mr. Teg
Freakzilla wrote:
SandRider wrote:I still can't find an image of Frank's handwriting for comparison.


Image

Image

Looks like his handwriting varied quite a bit.


The 7s are different.

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 10:06
by DuneFishUK
Mr. Teg wrote:Actually, during the recorded Q&A of the last book tour, Brian specifically says the handwriting was by 2 different people, which brings us back to whole McNeilly issue.


Really? They do look different, but the more I look, the more similar they look. Angles, shapes and stuff. Admittedly it could just be a time-and-place thing - I recently bought a signed 1951 book and the writing in that is suprisingly similar to my granddad's writing from the same era.

Just in case though :
ImageImage

Actually... :shock:

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 14:28
by SandRider
ImageImageImage
ImageImage
Image
Image
Image
Image

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 17:48
by Omphalos
Brian's and Frank's handwriting looks very similar.

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 18:47
by Bijaz
I heard that crossing the seven was common in the military. Freak?

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 20:26
by SandChigger
(Really? I picked it up from my seventh-grade math teacher. :shock: )

Posted: 29 Nov 2008 23:23
by Tleszer
Bijaz wrote:I heard that crossing the seven was common in the military. Freak?


I probably also picked it up in math. However, I only do that if I'm in the mood (which I know is only for women and cattle :roll: ).

Posted: 30 Nov 2008 00:42
by Rakis
Baraka Bryan wrote:i picked it up from a math teacher too, as well as crossing a 'z' to differentiate it from a 2 (because my handwriting is so messy)


That "z" thingy is news to me... :)

So...do we come to the conclusion that all math teachers are retired Green Berets? :wink: