Praise for Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson

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Praise for Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson

Postby Spice Grandson » 08 Jun 2008 19:06

Brian Herbert, the son of Frank Herbert, is the author of multiple New York Times bestsellers. He has won numerous literary honors and has been nominated for the highest awards in science fiction. In 2003, he published Dreamer of Dune, a moving biography of his father that was nominated for the Hugo Award. In 2006, Brian began his own galaxy-spanning science fiction series with the novel Timeweb. His earlier acclaimed novels include Sidney’s Comet; Sudanna, Sudanna; The Race for God; and Man of Two Worlds (written with Frank Herbert).

Kevin J. Anderson has written dozens of national bestsellers and has been nominated for the Nebula Award, the Bram Stoker Award, and the SFX Readers’ Choice Award. His critically acclaimed original novels include the ambitious space-opera series The Saga of Seven Suns, as well as The Martian Wars, Captain Nemo, and Hopscotch. He also set the Guinness-certified world record for the largest single-author book signing.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 08 Jun 2008 19:12

From the same site in a post about a different book there's a bit that got cut out of the one you quoted:


Kevin J. Anderson has written dozens of national bestsellers and has been nominated for the Nebula Award, the Bram Stoker Award, and the SFX Reader's Choice Award. He has set the Guinness-certified world record for the largest single-author book signing--for a posthumous collaboration with L. Ron Hubbard!



He sure did it all on his own eh?

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Postby SandChigger » 08 Jun 2008 19:39

I fail to see the point of this thread, Byron. So you can quote and highlight...so what?

Why don't YOU do something original and tell us what you really think about your uncle's book Timeweb? Have you even read it? Did anyone before it got sent to the editor? (There was an editor, I assume.) Is it supposed to be a comedy? Or a children's book? If the latter, it should be marked as such so people don't mistake it for something intended for an adult audience and judge it more harshly.

(Btw, can someone from here go to your site and start a "Condemnation for Kevin and Brian" thread? I thought not.)
Last edited by SandChigger on 08 Jun 2008 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Spice Grandson » 08 Jun 2008 19:40

A Thing of Eternity wrote:From the same site in a post about a different book there's a bit that got cut out of the one you quoted:


Kevin J. Anderson has written dozens of national bestsellers and has been nominated for the Nebula Award, the Bram Stoker Award, and the SFX Reader's Choice Award. He has set the Guinness-certified world record for the largest single-author book signing--for a posthumous collaboration with L. Ron Hubbard!



He sure did it all on his own eh?

Source: http://us.macmillan.com/slanhunter


"...dozens of national bestsellers ..." "...nominated for the Nebula Award, the Bram Stoker Award, and the SFX Reader's Choice Award..."

Note the word "dozens", meaning more than 1 or 2 or 8. And his nomination list is pretty impressive. You do know that many of the nominations are given out by those within the industry, right? Just curious.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 08 Jun 2008 19:45

Spice Grandson wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:From the same site in a post about a different book there's a bit that got cut out of the one you quoted:


Kevin J. Anderson has written dozens of national bestsellers and has been nominated for the Nebula Award, the Bram Stoker Award, and the SFX Reader's Choice Award. He has set the Guinness-certified world record for the largest single-author book signing--for a posthumous collaboration with L. Ron Hubbard!



He sure did it all on his own eh?

Source: http://us.macmillan.com/slanhunter


"...dozens of national bestsellers ..." "...nominated for the Nebula Award, the Bram Stoker Award, and the SFX Reader's Choice Award..."

Note the word "dozens", meaning more than 1 or 2 or 8. And his nomination list is pretty impressive. You do know that many of the nominations are given out by those within the industry, right? Just curious.


I'm not saying that the guy doesn't have some accomplishments. I just know that the parrallels with the music industry are pretty huge (based largely on commercial success, awards given can be meaningless), and his list of accomplishments looks alot like Britney Spears or The Backstreet Boys. For an example of how meaningless some awards given out by the industy are; look at Rihanna winning "best rap album of the year" - She's a pop singer, the only rap on her album was a short bridge by I believe JayZ. And don't tell me that the music industry is so different from the fiction industry. The music industry just contains a more purified spirit of BS.
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Postby Mandy » 08 Jun 2008 19:45

The criteria for the Nebula and Bram Stoker awards must be pretty low.

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Postby SandChigger » 08 Jun 2008 19:48

So...let me make sure I have this straight:

Kevin is a na-Nebula, etc., winner, right?

That's like...also ran, no?


(Ohp...he's gone. No doubt gonna run back home to DN and whine. Oh well.)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Mandy » 08 Jun 2008 19:59

lol.. I was just reading the FAQ for the Nebula awards. I bet KJA is a member of the SFWA.

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 08 Jun 2008 20:06

I'm going to copy and paste something I just posted over at DN for those of us who think the font is too small over there :wink:

I want to see an example of this "good characterization" I keep hearing about. Remember - good characterization does not refer to good characters. It refers to the methods used by the authors to describe said characters, and whether the actions of those characters fit with what the author says about them in narrative.

The best case scenario is for the author to say nothing about the characters, and instead let them be described through what they do. Barring that (KJABH frequently break the "show don't tell" method) the actions of the characters should at the very least not contradict what the author has said.

Sandworms is rife with both of these flaws, from Yeuh being characterized by other characters and the narrator simply saying over and over and over "he's scared to be re-awakened because he doesn't want to be that person", to Murbella, leader of one of the most cognative groups of people in history being completely shocked when she figures out the machines are going to attack. Also, many people aboard the Ithica are said to be intelligent (Duncan is the ubersuperKH and the rest are bene gesserit) but cannot figure out how the face dancers replaced Hawatt and the Rabbi.... um, maybe it was that time y'all went down to the face dancer planet and those two went off by themselves? No, they think it much more likely that Hawatt had been a FD from birth - COME ON!

A child with downs syndrome could have solved that mystery.
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Postby HoosierDaddy » 08 Jun 2008 20:24

He has set the Guinness-certified world record for the largest single-author book signing--for a posthumous collaboration with L. Ron Hubbard!


"posthumous collaboration". Is that another word for prequels/sequels of a dead person's writing?



:P

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 08 Jun 2008 20:33

HoosierDaddy wrote:
He has set the Guinness-certified world record for the largest single-author book signing--for a posthumous collaboration with L. Ron Hubbard!


"posthumous collaboration". Is that another word for prequels/sequels of a dead person's writing?



:P


I think he actually finished a novel that Ron had started, someone else did the same thing with a Heinlein book recently IIRC. Bit different from being "inspired" by some loose (or not loose, who knows) notes.
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Postby GamePlayer » 08 Jun 2008 20:44

If the various bodies dispensing awards in modern literature are anything even remotely like the Oscars for film or the Grammys for music, the integrity of these awards organizations have long since been compromised by commercial interests. Given the enormous commercial stakes involved in critical recognition, most awards are primarily about the given industry celebrating itself. The actual promotion of worthwhile talent is likely small and recognized only as window dressing or a token grab for legitimacy. If "authors" like Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson can win awards for "writing", the celebration of mediocrity has now attained levels beyond the absurd.

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Re: Praise for Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson

Postby Nekhrun » 08 Jun 2008 20:44

Spice Grandson wrote:Brian Herbert, the son of Frank Herbert, is the author of multiple New York Times bestsellers. He has won numerous literary honors and has been nominated for the highest awards in science fiction. In 2003, he published Dreamer of Dune, a moving biography of his father that was nominated for the Hugo Award. In 2006, Brian began his own galaxy-spanning science fiction series with the novel Timeweb. His earlier acclaimed novels include Sidney’s Comet; Sudanna, Sudanna; The Race for God; and Man of Two Worlds (written with Frank Herbert).

Kevin J. Anderson has written dozens of national bestsellers and has been nominated for the Nebula Award, the Bram Stoker Award, and the SFX Readers’ Choice Award. His critically acclaimed original novels include the ambitious space-opera series The Saga of Seven Suns, as well as The Martian Wars, Captain Nemo, and Hopscotch. He also set the Guinness-certified world record for the largest single-author book signing.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thank you! This was the funniest shit I've read all day.

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Postby Robspierre » 08 Jun 2008 21:45

Kevins nebula nomination was for a work he co-wrote with Beason, dunno about the Bram Stoker award though several good writers have earned it as well as total hacks :wink:, as far as national best sellers, how many of those are due to his work in established universes? X-Files, Star Wars, Dune? Has his own material done as well? Nope.

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Postby Phaedrus » 08 Jun 2008 22:02

And Hitler was Time Magazine's 1938 Man of the Year.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 08 Jun 2008 22:12

Phaedrus wrote:And Hitler was Time Magazine's 1938 Man of the Year.


And there it is. I've been holding back on this one myself. Not that I would compare KJABH to the old AH (Hey, I just realized I have the same initials as Hitler. That sucks.) in any way save one: The Majority is not always right.
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Postby Phaedrus » 08 Jun 2008 23:53

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Phaedrus wrote:And Hitler was Time Magazine's 1938 Man of the Year.


And there it is. I've been holding back on this one myself. Not that I would compare KJABH to the old AH (Hey, I just realized I have the same initials as Hitler. That sucks.) in any way save one: The Majority is not always right.


I think my point was closer to this:
Awards are meaningless political bullshit, and anyone who cites them as reference of actual quality is full of crap.

Or in this case, they're just MILKING.
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Postby orald » 09 Jun 2008 01:03

GamePlayer wrote:If the various bodies dispensing awards in modern literature are anything even remotely like the Oscars for film or the Grammys for music, the integrity of these awards organizations have long since been compromised by commercial interests. Given the enormous commercial stakes involved in critical recognition, most awards are primarily about the given industry celebrating itself. The actual promotion of worthwhile talent is likely small and recognized only as window dressing or a token grab for legitimacy. If "authors" like Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson can win awards for "writing", the celebration of mediocrity has now attained levels beyond the absurd.

I absolutely agree.

Phaedrus wrote:And Hitler was Time Magazine's 1938 Man of the Year.

You stole my line! :x

I think a closer thing would be the Nobel prize, given that it's not "just" a magazine award and supposedly means something.
Arafat and his collaboratos Bill "Cigar" Clinton and Yitzchak "Gun Down Them Jews*" Rabin won the nobel peace prize back in '94 I believe, for the reason of giving terrorists a return ticket to Israel, arming them and giving them control over many territories while they give Israel exactly...nothing in return. Oh yea, bombs are something, right?

Rob wrote:as far as national best sellers, how many of those are due to his work in established universes? X-Files, Star Wars, Dune? Has his own material done as well? Nope.

Totally agree there too.

What are the standarts for "best seller" anyway? Don't you see "best seller
" on book covers even before the book is out, as part of the "review" quotes and all?
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Postby SandChigger » 09 Jun 2008 01:26

orald wrote:What are the standarts for "best seller" anyway? Don't you see "best seller" on book covers even before the book is out, as part of the "review" quotes and all?

ZING!!! :lol:

Yeah, Sadworms was a fricking "bestseller" before they even finished writing it! :D

:shock:

Damn...those cover designers at TOR are PRESCIENT!!! :(
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Robspierre » 09 Jun 2008 01:58

http://www.zone-sf.com/hiddenempire.html

A teaser:


Reading the 'about the author' blurb at the front of the book, it becomes obvious that Anderson cut his authorial teeth writing movie and TV tie-ins (X-Files and Jedi books in particular), from which he moved on to the 'dead author exploitation' market by writing Dune prequels with Frank Herbert's son, Brian. The frightening thing about all this is how immensely successful it has made him. He has, it seems, 15 million books in print in 27 languages, has hit The Times bestseller #1 slot and achieved a whole slate of big prizes or at least nominations.
When someone with this little ability to generate original plots and world-scapes, with so poor a grasp of scientific principles, and such desperately inadequate writing skills can shine so brightly and sell so well, it begins to look as if the science fiction genre is in terminal decline. His success seems to be evidence of a vast readership who's ability to discriminate good from bad has been systematically degraded by a remorseless marketing machine.
Well, I know that's not completely true. We have real writers, both well established and up-and-coming. The trend, however, is worrying. Anderson, taken as an individual, is just an aberration. His success is ephemeral and his books won't even be a bad memory ten years after the last one is foisted on a jaded public. But Anderson is not unique. There are plenty of other hacks and formula-merchants, helping the corporate merchandisers crank out the pap. That's the depressing thing, and the danger to the genre's hopes of inspiring new, talented writers, and attracting intelligent, discerning readers.


Rob

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Re: Praise for Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson

Postby chanilover » 09 Jun 2008 02:05

Spice Grandson wrote:Brian Herbert, the son of Frank Herbert, is the author of multiple New York Times bestsellers. He has won numerous literary honors and has been nominated for the highest awards in science fiction. In 2003, he published Dreamer of Dune, a moving biography of his father that was nominated for the Hugo Award. In 2006, Brian began his own galaxy-spanning science fiction series with the novel Timeweb. His earlier acclaimed novels include Sidney’s Comet; Sudanna, Sudanna; The Race for God; and Man of Two Worlds (written with Frank Herbert).

Kevin J. Anderson has written dozens of national bestsellers and has been nominated for the Nebula Award, the Bram Stoker Award, and the SFX Readers’ Choice Award. His critically acclaimed original novels include the ambitious space-opera series The Saga of Seven Suns, as well as The Martian Wars, Captain Nemo, and Hopscotch. He also set the Guinness-certified world record for the largest single-author book signing.


Byron, are you drunk? I've always liked you and what happened over at DN was really shit, but that's life and I still thought you were a decent guy.

Please, just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.
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Re: Praise for Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson

Postby Jakob von Gunten » 09 Jun 2008 02:11

Spice Grandson wrote:
Kevin J. Anderson has written dozens of national bestsellers


J. D. Salinger is really impressed.
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Postby SandChigger » 09 Jun 2008 03:09

Hey, Jakob onboard! :D

Nice sig-line:

"My merit is not to be totally ineffectual but to have wanted to be."

I think the merritt here is pretty ineffectual in his current context and that's maybe another source of his angst.

Writers write, right? :wink:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby orald » 09 Jun 2008 04:36

SandChigger wrote:Writers write, right? :wink:

Well, that works for BH...but do dictators dictate? Kevin? :o
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.



I wish I could have been with you that one last time.

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Postby SandChigger » 09 Jun 2008 07:02

Nah, they just tate dic. :evil:

("How dat dic tate, cappy?" "Oh, it tate real good.")


A funny (interesting) possibility just occurred to me as I was reading the other thread: it's not that Byron won't comment on Timeweb but that he can't. Because he hasn't read it...and commenting on something he hasn't read...well, darn, that would be the kind of thing we're supposed to do, right?

I honestly couldn't understand how anyone in the HLP could have let Brian publish that book as is. (I've only skimmed through it, looking for things to make fun of on my blog, but Teg has read the whole thing now.) But now it kinda makes sense: none of them have read it. Think about it...what easier way to honestly say you don't know anything about it? And besides, it's Brian's series, his own thing, not connected in any way with FH's work, so it's not really the HLP's concern. Brilliant!
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA


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