any Parts of the sequels/prequels that are worth dang?

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any Parts of the sequels/prequels that are worth dang?

Postby trang » 31 May 2008 13:16

Ok before the Powers decend on this post and blast it to oblivion, Ill will try and justify the question, remember its only a question.

I dont want to feed any positve overall vibe about these books in anyway, believe me I feel equally sick as the volume of crap piles up.

I also infatically state I am no fan of BH/KJA as a rule.

So, what am I getting at? well in any volume of garbage, little treasures can be found. Example a landfill, you could go thru it (in a toxic suite and plenty of oxygen) and your bound to find something of value that can be revived or saved.

There are a few wild varibles to this equation of Dune that make the exploration a challenge.

1. With FH gone, no verifyable way to know his thoughts.

2 Inabillity to verify the contents of FH's Notes from the discovered Lockbox.

3. BH/KJA say they are "first and formost Fans of Dune" before writers, but yet they continue the onslaught of garbage.

4. I am not a definative expert on the Classic books ( I have been thru them at least 4 times now) and the others once.


With that understanding (and Im sure I have forgotton a few) I will proceed carefully asking a few initial thoughts on the matter Im getting at.

If we take to consideration that FH had no plans to pass on as early as he did, one could assume he had further plans for Dune. That would lend the logical mind that these could have been kept somewhere in addtion to his mind, hence the probability of these so called "notes" and "outline". I dont want any of the classic books changed, enhanced or tarnished in any fashion.

This is a hope for additional content that only Lightly adds to the series in a fun way. Again before the Hoards decend, go with me here.

Ok, so, IF we have a set of notes, and the pen as a sword stabbing the corpse writers that BH/KJA are, have referenced them, is the following possible:

1. We as readers can (in toxic suit's) wade thru the garbage and find a gem or two?

2. Can these gems be similar to the short stories and additions in Road to Dune? Fun to read, yet not damaging the Classics?

3. What would these be if they were found? I dont know thats why im asking.


a couple possible areas:

1. The school for Swords of Ginaz: Is it possible this is a gem, I found the account of Duncan entertaining. Not the far reaching part of the story, but just the small compartmentalized version.

Example, he is introduced to us as a Sword Master of Ginaz in the original books. Excerpting this from the other books and just written as a short story I find possibly rewarding, yet not damaging to anything. This could lead down a path to a lasgun/shield literary explosion I know, Im just walking cautiously and asking lightly.

2. The passages and history of the original settlers on Dune who became the freemen, and the story of the first wormrider. Possible short story here just for fun?

Im not going further for now, im sure thats enough to be blasted upon, just a start.

I know FH wasnt (and I enjoy the books and style just at they are)into the every detail of things in Dune. But reading his other books as I get to them (whipping star/dosadi, Ascension series, EYE, and others) keeps me wanting and wondering if he might have dabbled in this based off his Plan for the continuation of DUNE.

We cant have FH back, and continued garbage in mass volume isnt necesaary, but maybe discussion that these two did possibly bump into a set of ideas from FH and out of all the garbage managed to get in the ball park on a couple ideas.

Thats mainly what im getting at. Take those few ideas and throw them around for discussion.

See it maybe as some freeman warriors sitting around a fire throwing out stories of the days gone by while BH/KJA are in the tanks collecting their water?

The faith is kept, the story goes on, no harm done.

And also I know there are tons of things to be discussed and shared from the classic books, as well as, continued discussion on the garbage being put forth and how much it is disliked. No intention of changing any of that.

Just flushing out ideas that bounce about my wee skull,
Fairday and fireaway!!
Trang
"Long Live the Fighters", "Dragon.....the other white meat."

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 31 May 2008 14:23

I don't remember them vividly, as I had to resort to skip reading to survive it, but I remember there being a couple of scenes in Hunters that I actually found some small bit of good in. I haven't read the House series which from what I've heard is their least weak body of work, so I'm probably missing what little good could come of this. I anticipate zero "treasures" in Sadworms though based on the summaries I've read around these boards. I'll see if I get some time to skim through Hunters and verify whether my memory is working properly. If I find anything I'll post it here.
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Postby SandChigger » 31 May 2008 19:32

AToE, Kevin actually advised me, in reply to a comment on his MySpace blog, to skip over the parts I found redundant or repetitive.

Think about what that really says, a writer telling you to skip over parts of what he has written. He's saying that he doesn't write so that every word counts.

He just counts every word. :wink:

Trang, I don't know what to say here. Yeah, maybe there are some Frank Herbert ideas sunken somewhere deep within all the crap they're grunting out, but who wants to sift through shit looking for diamonds that might not be there?
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"

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Postby orald » 31 May 2008 19:43

SandChigger wrote:He just counts every word. :wink:

And the pennies, don't forget the pennies.
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

I wish I could have been with you that one last time.

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 31 May 2008 19:54

SandChigger wrote:AToE, Kevin actually advised me, in reply to a comment on his MySpace blog, to skip over the parts I found redundant or repetitive.

Think about what that really says, a writer telling you to skip over parts of what he has written. He's saying that he doesn't write so that every word counts.

He just counts every word. :wink:

Trang, I don't know what to say here. Yeah, maybe there are some Frank Herbert ideas sunken somewhere deep within all the crap they're grunting out, but who wants to sift through shit looking for diamonds that might not be there?


Good good, I'd hate it if I offended him by only reading every second scentence or so.
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 02 Jun 2008 00:17

I'm now about 250 pages into Hunters, and some of the chapters so far aren't bad at all. I couldn't begin to guess what ideas were Frank's, so I won't. Some of the meetings between various groups (i.e. Guild meeting with Ixians) while handled ham-fistedly, may have derived from an FH note.

I seem to remember liking some of the scenes in the House series too. The young Duncan Idaho and his training was interesting. More than offset by all the noncanon nonsense, sadly, but still ...

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 02 Jun 2008 01:43

I remember being happy with the upgrade in quality in Hunters from the Legends books. I didn't like the dumbed down charactors and disliked the little bit of normacle that I was introduced to, but I thought it was a stronger piece over all.

I am now about halfway through Sadworms (I'm taking some notes as I go, will post later), and sadly, truly sadly, I cannot say the same of this novel. Like the Legends series deteriorated over the three books, so has this one from Hunters. I have pages of contradictions (both with FH and themselves), absurd oversights by supposedly compitant charactors and plot flaws in my notes. The dialogue is beyond any possible description, can only be compared to the dialogue jr high students would compose the day before an in-class skit was to be delivered (you know the type I hope). I had honestly been motivated to take notes as I went and give a truly balanced review, but so far I have only a single positive note.

Up until this point I honestly have had some fun poking at the mistakes that the authors have made, but it's not funny or fun anymore. Hopefully I'll get my sense of humour back after I decompress from this read, I honestly didn't expect much, but I expected a laugh. I have gotten few thus far.

I'm sorry for sounding so melodramatic.
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