"New Canon" inconsistencies....

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SandChigger
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby SandChigger » 06 Mar 2010 21:53

Hunchback Jack wrote:Um, what? When did the Water of Life become a healing agent? Why do they suddenly loathe Shaddam?

Well...

Ch.36. (193) Farad’n born on Salusa Secundus. Shaddam and Wensicia abusing Dalak, the father.* (Who turns out to be a cousin of Count Fenring? Of course, everyone is always related to everyone else in these books!)

Ch.59. (312) On Salusa Secundus, Shaddam accuses Dalak of theft. His own wife, Wensicia, shoots him with a dart gun when Garon hesitates to kill him. Shaddam decides to send daughter Rugi to “Great Surrender” ceremony.

Ch.71. (373) Garon on Tleilax; informs Fenring of Corrino murder of his cousin Dalak. More plods within plods within plods. Marie fights and kills 15 BT Sardaukar gholas single-handedly. In the dark. Fenring deems her ready for use.

My synopsis of the banquet scenes:

Ch.95. (488) Truly painful dinner scene. During stunning repartee, Marie drops some food and ducks under table to retrieve it. When she doesn’t reappear, Alia ducks under to see what she’s doing and Marie attacks. Fenrings release various toxic powders and gasses and attack. Alia eventually kills Marie by stabbing her in the back with the Shaddam dagger, which the Count had brought to table. Korba christens her “Saint Alia of the Knife”.* (Well THANK THE MAKER that I lived long enough to have that one explained! Sheesh!)

Ch.96. (497) Paul approaches the fallen girlchild and lowers his guard, sympathizing with the grieving Count. Taken aback when Margot reveals the identity of Marie’s father, he leaves himself open to attack by Fenring, who plunges the dagger into his chest.

Ch.97. (499) Paul collapses, Chani and Alia rush to his side, call for Suks. Chani hits on idea of giving him Water of Life to stop time (or at least his heart) and give the Suks time to repair the damage. Eventually his heart starts beating again and Irulan wonders, as she sheds tears of joy, if she ... loves him?! Paul recovers and Irulan sees Korba make off with the knife.

Ch.98. (505) Paul judges Fenrings and sentences them to exile with Shaddam on Salusa Secundus.

http://www.hairyticksofdune.net/synopses/syn_pod.html :)
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby Xenu » 07 Mar 2010 04:10

SandChigger wrote:http://www.hairyticksofdune.net/synopses/syn_pod.html :)

Now I realize why everyone's telling me to stay away from the new Dune books. :lol:

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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby nampigai » 07 Mar 2010 07:54

I know how you're feeling HBJ.

Ch.36. (193) Farad’n born on Salusa Secundus. Shaddam and Wensicia abusing Dalak, the father.* (Who turns out to be a cousin of Count Fenring? Of course, everyone is always related to everyone else in these books!)


I'm starting to think that KJA is a screenwriter for "Days of our lives!"
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby MrFlibble » 07 Mar 2010 09:23

Hunchback Jack wrote:
[7] at a banquet with her visiting parents, six-year-old Marie and the Fenrings execute their well-planned assassination attempt on Paul.[8] Alia manages to kill Marie, but Margot's revelation of her daughter's paternity surprises Paul enough to allow Hasimir to stab him near-mortally.[8]


Wait a second. If Fenring could just stab Paul while his wife distracted him, *why didn't they just do that in the first place*??? Why go to all the trouble of training the kid as an assassin and having her do it?

Because an evil plan without unnecessary complications is not evil enough! :roll:
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby SadisticCynic » 07 Mar 2010 09:50

Marie is accepted into Paul's court as a playmate for his young sister Alia;



Also, why would Alia need a playmate her own age?
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby SandRider » 07 Mar 2010 10:35

did Frank actually write that "St Alia of the Knife" was from her finishing off wounded Sardaukar after the battle of arrakeen ?
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby TheDukester » 07 Mar 2010 12:46

SandChigger wrote: Of course, everyone is always related to everyone else in these books!

There's George Lucas Syndrome for you. A universe with trillions upon trillions of people, but it turns out that all of the "important people" are somehow related. It's poor story-telling at its finest.

And we all know that everything is just Star Wars to "international best-seller" Kevin J. Anderson.
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby MrFlibble » 07 Mar 2010 13:25

TheDukester wrote:There's George Lucas Syndrome for you. A universe with trillions upon trillions of people, but it turns out that all of the "important people" are somehow related. It's poor story-telling at its finest.

Precisely. I don't know what I detest more in the new books, this or the childish moralizing KJA seems to think is good style.
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby SandChigger » 07 Mar 2010 15:30

(I'm not sure if he ever says it explicitly, SandRider!)

I've been working on my WoD synopsis for the website and the "one-product planet" bullshit has been on my mind again for the last day or so, so I thought I'd just throw it in here:

Frank Herbert mentions a "Balut crystal bottle" ONCE in six books, so for KJA Balut automatically becomes THE glass-producing planet of the Duniverse. Just like Chusuk ONLY produces musical instruments. Ix & Richesse are technology ONLY, etc etc etc. :roll:

Caladan and a few others have more diversified portfolios (wine, Pundi rice, antique whale fur, etc), but by and large it seems like each planet is known for ONE product and ONE PRODUCT ONLY.

The lack of imagination is depressing, but more important, in my opinion it robs the Duniverse of a bit of depth & realism.
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 07 Mar 2010 18:05

SandChigger wrote:(I'm not sure if he ever says it explicitly, SandRider!)

I've been working on my WoD synopsis for the website and the "one-product planet" bullshit has been on my mind again for the last day or so, so I thought I'd just throw it in here:

Frank Herbert mentions a "Balut crystal bottle" ONCE in six books, so for KJA Balut automatically becomes THE glass-producing planet of the Duniverse. Just like Chusuk ONLY produces musical instruments. Ix & Richesse are technology ONLY, etc etc etc. :roll:

Caladan and a few others have more diversified portfolios (wine, Pundi rice, antique whale fur, etc), but by and large it seems like each planet is known for ONE product and ONE PRODUCT ONLY.

The lack of imagination is depressing, but more important, in my opinion it robs the Duniverse of a bit of depth & realism.

Agreed. KJA seems to have a depressing lack of ability to understand how macroeconomics works on earth even. Must have failed econ in college, other wise he would understand that all of a planets resources are to be taken advantage of in order to become economically successful.

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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby Ampoliros » 07 Mar 2010 21:28

:angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: I FUCKING HATE MARIE FENRING :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming:

She is nothing more than a slap in the face of everything that is good and noble and intelligent. She is dumber as a super weapon than the Sun Crusher by at least a factor of ten. She is the twist of the blade that follows the utter shit that is the new books. I can never forgive her existence. May she die 1000 deaths! If there was ever anything that could actually pull someone's IQ into a negative number IT IS MARIE FENRING.



Sorry, its just that you guys mentioned her and I needed to reiterate yet again how I feel about THE MOST INTELLECTUALLY SAPPING THING HUMANITY(*) HAS EVER EVER CREATED.



*provided that KJA proves to be actually human.
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby Lundse » 08 Mar 2010 01:55

SandChigger wrote:The lack of imagination is depressing, but more important, in my opinion it robs the Duniverse of a bit of depth & realism.


Indeed. It is a sad, sad version of 'Frank did that with Dune and spice, so obviously that is how his universe works'. No surprise here; KJA does not know the difference between setting a locale up to have a special status within a finely crafted world, and a general rule for that world.


reverendmotherQ. wrote:KJA seems to have a depressing lack of ability to understand how macroeconomics works on earth even. Must have failed econ in college, other wise he would understand that all of a planets resources are to be taken advantage of in order to become economically successful.


You know, I think he is just lazy and does ... not ... give ... a ... fuck. It is almost funny, how the blatant idiocy regarding planetary resources you mention is perpetrated in, of all things, the Dune universe.

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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby nampigai » 08 Mar 2010 03:19

I FUCKING HATE MARIE FENRING


I hate how they depict Count Fenring in the House series.
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby lotek » 08 Mar 2010 04:03

you know what; i was kind of getting tired of hack virtual bashing but reading this topic has rekindled the flame!

this might have to do with the fact that i am gztting up for work and that i had to work 3 week ends in a row but who cares, my hate is back with a vengeance and i like it!
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby Xenu » 08 Mar 2010 04:55

reverendmotherQ. wrote:Agreed. KJA seems to have a depressing lack of ability to understand how macroeconomics works on earth even. Must have failed econ in college, other wise he would understand that all of a planets resources are to be taken advantage of in order to become economically successful.

The sad thing is one doesn't even need a college education to understand that, anyone with even a basic grasp of how economics and finances work knows that it's absolutely retarded to not use everything you can to your advantage.

Also, that's the spirit lotek! Let the hate flow freely!

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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby lotek » 08 Mar 2010 06:59

yup my hate for hackery matches my love and respect for real writing and mind challenges :)

(that's a lot for both btw)
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby Ampoliros » 08 Mar 2010 12:13

I think its worse, I think its a sickening trend of people who are 'educated' just not needing to actually use their brain as a tool to survive. In that world, KJA is a great sci-fi writer.


In the real world, where people are evolving, we look at the great accomplishments of humanity done by people who use our god/evolution-given cerebellum and actually take time to think about something for more than the few seconds it takes our brain to calculate it. In this world that same KJA is a relentless self-promoting hack.
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby lotek » 08 Mar 2010 16:04

and to make matters even worse when someone criticizes with rational and logical arguments the emptiness of these mcdunes they're called talifans like it's an answer...
Fucking idiots not able to reply in the same manner resort to kindergarden name calling, I mean we love Dune and we can explain why, all they do is spurt shit through their keyboards(to match spurting shit through a dicthiker maybe?)

hell that stupid pompous arse of a hack's got the audience he deserves, a pack of dimwits led by a moron!

Give me some fucking worthy opponent in verbal joust please!

I think this is just a vast alien conspiracy who have decided the best way to get rid of humanity is to make it become so fucking retarded it ultimately won't even be able to perform the simplest survival tasks and Earth will be ripe for the taking. On that day I will be there to welcome the bastards and I hope you Yanks will share your shotguns :)
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 10 Mar 2010 08:50

Xenu wrote:
reverendmotherQ. wrote:Agreed. KJA seems to have a depressing lack of ability to understand how macroeconomics works on earth even. Must have failed econ in college, other wise he would understand that all of a planets resources are to be taken advantage of in order to become economically successful.

The sad thing is one doesn't even need a college education to understand that, anyone with even a basic grasp of how economics and finances work knows that it's absolutely retarded to not use everything you can to your advantage.

Also, that's the spirit lotek! Let the hate flow freely!


Double agreed. Economics is common sense and requires KJA to open his frakking eyes.

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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 10 Mar 2010 08:52

lotek wrote: I hope you Yanks will share your shotguns :)

Oh bring it! I will bring the revolver, the 22, the machine gun, and we can give one hell of show. I am not a yank btw, but I must be one in spirit.

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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 10 Mar 2010 12:27

Where are you from then? I'd made the assumption that you were in the US like most members here...oops!
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby nampigai » 10 Mar 2010 14:50

there are yanks on this forum?
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby SandRider » 10 Mar 2010 16:22

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Where are you from then? I'd made the assumption that you were in the US like most members here...oops!



*sigh*

somehow, I feel like I've just plain failed with you ....

Miss rmQ is a Belle o' The South, and so would never refer to herself as a "yank" ....

the fact that the rest of the world refers to all Americans as "yanks" is more evidence
of your misunderstanding of this nation; much like American's thoughts of Canada, which
until the recent Olympics, 54% of polled Americans thought was another state, like Rhode
Island or Guam. Even with continued prompting from NBC personalities, this same 54%
after the Olympics still listed America's border countries as Mexico, Russia, and California;
100% of that 54% also answered "no, I don't give a fuck" when asked.
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 10 Mar 2010 17:05

SandRider wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Where are you from then? I'd made the assumption that you were in the US like most members here...oops!



*sigh*

somehow, I feel like I've just plain failed with you ....

Miss rmQ is a Belle o' The South, and so would never refer to herself as a "yank" ....

the fact that the rest of the world refers to all Americans as "yanks" is more evidence
of your misunderstanding of this nation; much like American's thoughts of Canada, which
until the recent Olympics, 54% of polled Americans thought was another state, like Rhode
Island or Guam. Even with continued prompting from NBC personalities, this same 54%
after the Olympics still listed America's border countries as Mexico, Russia, and California;
100% of that 54% also answered "no, I don't give a fuck" when asked.



:lol: Don't worry, you haven't failed with me SR, I know that amongst Americans Yank only applies to some of you, as far as I know the side that wasn't The South (with Capitals of course :wink: ) is the Yankies (that correct?). I was just bugging her.

Buuuuut - the rest of the world calls you ALL yankies. Same way a lot of Americans (and Canadians to be fair) call all Asian people Chinese (which is worse), and call Indians Pakistani (which is worse). It's something Y'all will just have to live with. :D

I can't believe an entire 54% percent of you guys thought Canada was a state, man that's just shameful! That's orders of magnitude more fucked up than us all calling you Yanks! I wonder if that was just in one specifically uneducated area... I don't expect anyone to name our provinces or anything, I can't name all your states (you have too many!), but the level of knowledge many American seem to have about the outside world is just frightening. :(
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Re: "New Canon" inconsistencies....

Postby Spicelon » 10 Mar 2010 17:15

Canada isn't a state?!

<ducks>
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