"Navigators of Dune" Pre-hate Thread

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"Navigators of Dune" Pre-hate Thread

Postby SandRider » 10 Jan 2015 09:56

It's somehow strangely comforting to know that, after all these years,
Keith & the Other Guy are still such silly sacks of lying shit ...

Several gems in this email "interview" from some asshat's blagh
back in April 2014, after the secretion of "Mentats of Dune":

http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2014/04/i ... -dune.html

V: Do you both have you a long-term goal with where you’re heading with the epic Dune saga (in general, not just the Schools) or do you occasional have a spark of inspiration and from that grows a new Dune tale?

BH: Our long-term goal is to explore Frank Herbert’s incredible Dune universe, filling in details of magnificent realms that he mentioned in the six novels that he wrote, and in the outline he left for “Dune 7,” which we wrote as Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune. We do have sparks of inspiration, but we always want to remain true to what Frank Herbert envisioned, or to what we believe he would have approved of as the Dune canon.

KJA: Now that we’ve finished the entire Hellhole trilogy, we’ll be turning our efforts to NAVIGATORS OF DUNE. After that we haven’t made any definite plans, but there are plenty of places to go.


V: Have of you ever looked at bringing any other authors into the Dune fold? If so, who? Or if not, would you ever consider it and who would you like to bring in?

BH: The Dune universe is extremely detailed, and the Dune fans are very particular about keeping the details straight, so it would be very difficult to bring another author in. We might have to spend more time editing their work than it would take to write new stories ourselves. I’m not saying it would be impossible to bring in another author, but that person would have to be extremely knowledgeable about the entire Dune canon – which now comprises 18 novels and millions of words (plus the non-canonical “Spice Planet” novel in The Road To Dune).

KJA: Same as above


Here's the kicker ...
V: Does the term McDune bother you or has it always been a phrase which you’ve brushed away?

BH: I might have heard that term previously, but it’s so infrequent that I can’t recall when. It’s an obvious reference to the sheer number of Dune novels that we have written. One fan recently asked me if we use ghost writers. (No, Kevin and I write the novels ourselves.) Despite the number of novels, and the fact that they comprise millions of words, Kevin and I take each novel VERY seriously, and we put a great deal of work into each writing project, to make certain that it is worthy of being included in the Dune universe. Because of the amount of work that we put into each novel, we would rather think of each one as a full-course gourmet meal, instead of fast food.

KJA: And we’d rather pay attention to the millions of readers who love the books than worry about a tiny subset who complain.


V: Is there any possibility you could tell me and the readers of FlickeringMyth.com what the next “School” book will be entitled and which school will our sights be turned upon (I myself believe we’re going to be looking at the Spacing Guild)?

BH: It is one of the writing projects that Kevin and I have discussed, although we have not made arrangements to publish it yet. In the Dune universe, it will be our next novel, entitled NAVIGATORS OF DUNE. This will, as you surmised, be about the founding of the Spacing Guild, thousands of years before the events in DUNE.

KJA: Brian and I plotted out NAVIGATORS OF DUNE in some detail right after we finished writing MENTATS.


Many thanks to Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson for taking the time for this interview and thanks to Byron at DuneNovels for helping set things up.

For more the latest information on forthcoming Dune novels visit www.dunenovels.com and you can find more information on WordFire Press over at www.wordfirepress.com. And be sure to follow Kevin J. Anderson on Twitter @TheKJA.

Wait ... Bryon who?
"more information" at dunenovels?
that "official website" that still doesn't list "Mentats"?
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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how to fully interact with people.
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Re: "Navigators of Dune" Pre-hate Thread

Postby SandRider » 10 Jan 2015 10:03

oh ... here's Keith's Blagh:
http://kjablog.com/brainstorming-navigators-of-dune/

Brainstorming NAVIGATORS OF DUNE

It’s the grand finale of the Great Schools of Dune trilogy, which we launched with SISTERHOOD OF DUNE in fall of 2011 then followed up with MENTATS OF DUNE in March 2014, and now we will complete with NAVIGATORS OF DUNE.


Right after we delivered the final manuscript of MENTATS OF DUNE in March 2013, Brian and I were together in Seattle doing promotion for HELLHOLE AWAKENING. We did a book signing at University Books and also appeared at the NorWescon science fiction convention. But because we had just delivered book 2 and had all the storylines in our heads, we didn’t want to miss the rare opportunity of being in the same city at the same time. So, we carved out an afternoon, sat down in a diner not too far from the NorWescon convention, and spent hours figuring out how we were going to wrap up all those plotlines. We had a great, invigorating session, throwing around a lot of ideas, and took copious notes in the broad strokes of the plot for NAVIGATORS OF DUNE.


But that novel wasn’t next on our plate. Later that year we also had to write the epic finale to our Hellhole trilogy, HELLHOLE INFERNO—but we were smart to get those NAVIGATORS ideas down on paper while everything was fresh. We finished HELLHOLE INFERNO and delivered it, and we also had plenty of other projects to focus on. Brian had THE LITTLE GREEN BOOK OF CHAIRMAN RAHMA, and I had THE DARK BETWEEN THE STARS and my Dan Shamble, Zombie PI series. HELLHOLE INFERNO was published in August 2014, and we got caught up in promoting that novel.


But it was time to get to work on our next important project: NAVIGATORS OF DUNE, and for that we needed some good solid time to brainstorm. Brian and I compared calendars and found a time when we could get together in October, four days 20-23. I flew in to Seattle, reviewing all of those Norwescon diner notes during the plane trip; we had each previously skimmed over MENTATS OF DUNE to refresh our memories. Brian called me while I was waiting to board the ferry, and he was eager to start brainstorming already, so we tossed some new ideas back and forth. When he picked me up from the terminal, we were talking about the book from the moment I got in the car. With our notes, we stopped at a brand new local microbrewery for an IPA and initial brainstorming, then off to Brian’s house for more brainstorming.


We already had the broad strokes of the story, from the diner conversation more than a year earlier, but we started to fill in the details, coming up with more cool ideas to connect plot lines. To avoid burnout too soon, we went out to dinner at our favorite local Thai restaurant with Brian’s wife Jan, then back to the house for more brainstorming, then we called it a night. Next morning with a fresh (and large) pot of coffee, we started in again. We took advantage of the clear, sunny day (a rarity in the Pacific Northwest this time of year) and went out for a nice hike, because we find that’s an excellent way to get the creative energies flowing. More great ideas. Then dinner at a local pub, and back to the house for a break—our brains were mush by then!—to watch a movie. Brian loves classic movies and he always convinces me to watch some old black-and-white classic. I usually grumble, but I usually end up enjoying the movie (because Brian has good recommendations). For the first night, he suggested a John Wayne classic “Red River” (yes, I liked it), and the following night we agreed on “The Grapes of Wrath” (I liked that one, too).

For our second full day of brainstorming, we started breaking down the big story into chapters, characters, story lines, separating them into broad plots, and then started the hard detail work of dividing the big plots into discrete chapters, and then to interweave them. How to wrap up the grand story of Vorian Atreides, one of our most popular characters ever, and his blood-feud with Valya Harkonnen? What will Valya do with the Sisterhood? Emperor Roderick Corrino in his crisis, caught in the titanic struggle between the barbarian fanatics led by Manford Torondo and Anari Idaho and the enlightened but ruthless forces of Josef Venport and his Navigators. And the evil robot Erasmus…the slightly insane Anna Corrino, the hellish research lab on poisonous Denali, the new cymeks… It’s a lot to organize!

Sometimes Brian would type furiously on the laptop, sometimes I would. By the time we played “The Grapes of Wrath” that evening, with a nice bottle of red wine open, we were again drained, but feeling pretty good—we had a solid, dramatic story that just needed to be fine tuned.

Next morning, we went out to another diner for breakfast, still working on some of the finer plot points, connecting some strands, but we already had a lot keyed in, and it just needed to be organized and broken down. Brian drove me to the ferry after a quick lunch, and I was on my way home. NAVIGATORS OF DUNE is our *eighteenth* book together since 1996—so we’ve really figured out how to get the best out of each other.

On the flight back home I mulled over the notes, with noise-cancelling headphones on, just with good solid concentration time. I organized the notes and outlines more, and then when I got home for the next few days I worked on it more. About a week later, I sent Brian my first cut breakdown, about 70 chapters, and then sent it back to him for his editing. Brian dove into the outline for several weeks while I buried myself in the final revisions and edit of my 750-page novel BLOOD OF THE COSMOS. He expanded the outline to about 82 chapters and did some sanding and polishing to make the pieces fit together better, then sent it back to me.

I had to let it cool off while I finished my BLOOD OF THE COSMOS edit, and last week I gave that final manuscript to my wife Rebecca for her detailed copy-edit on the prose. That gave me the chance to work on the NAVIGATORS OF DUNE outline again. I’d had about a month to clear my head, so I could approach the story fresh. Brian made copious notes about his changes and other ideas he added. I worked on it, talked with Brian on the phone, then worked on it more. I expanded the outline to 96 chapters, but then went back with a more ruthless mindset to see what could be combined. Why use two chapters if the same story-needs can be delivered in one chapter? As of this afternoon, as I finished this draft of an outline that is near final (though still subject to more rounds of changes—and even more when we do the actual writing). 85 chapters so far.

Now it goes back to Brian. We’re getting close, and we hope to start writing by the first of the year. No idea when it will be scheduled for publication.


I know y'all don't want to read all that babble, so I'll summarize:
Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel.
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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Re: "Navigators of Dune" Pre-hate Thread

Postby SandRider » 10 Jan 2015 10:07

https://www.goodreads.com/questions/108 ... ished-what

I thought Keith had been extremely clear that the "Heroes of Dune" trilogy
was NEVER planned as a trilogy? Fuck me, I guess I'm the Stupid One ...

Rick Mcgimpsey asked Brian Herbert:
After Navigators of Dune is published what will be the next Dune-related project you and Kevin J. Anderson will be working on?

Brian Herbert We have discussed several possibilities, always keeping in mind that each novel must be plotted and written with great care, to maintain the very high standard of quality that Frank Herbert established for his fantastic universe. Our novels PAUL OF DUNE and WINDS OF DUNE form the first 2 books of a planned trilogy. The 3rd book could be about Leto II, the God Emperor, and would probably be titled THE GOLDEN PATH OF DUNE. We have also discussed the possibility of an additional novel coming before GOLDEN PATH.

Both Kevin and I are also busy with other projects. My recently-published novel OCEAN and my forthcoming THE LITTLE GREEN BOOK OF CHAIRMAN RAHMA are both ecological thrillers, and I could write sequels to both of them. Both novels were left with plenty of room for more stories.
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Re: "Navigators of Dune" Pre-hate Thread

Postby Frybread » 11 Jan 2015 14:59

So , according to these douches, "staying true to (Frank Herbert's) vision" means writing a final book with characters not created by the original author and ending the series with a super-duper hero in charge of everything when FH warned about the danger of such situations? Exploring the existing Dune universe means treating the original books as only in-universe canon, allowing them to change Paul's birthplace and other things?

Fuck BH, fuck TheKJA and fuck the HLP. And now we have another shitty McDune book on the way. I never truly hated TheKJA but just thought he was pathetic and a shitty writer. Now I'm beginning to really hate this untalented fuckhead. Why couldn't he stick to ruining Star Wars or some other pulp action-type of universe in which his juvenile, YA-style of writing doesn't completely tarnish the source material? Why couldn't BH and the HLP pick a more intellectual, literary author to write their new books? I suppose a writer who actually conducts research and writes instead of speaks into an audio recorder to bolster productivity wouldn't have pumped out 50 shitty books in 15 years or whatever the hell TheKJA has "accomplished."

Edited to add that no, Brian, you fucktard, the Dune "canon" doesn't include 18 novels!!!! It is comprised of six novels with (shitty) YA expanded-universe titles tacked on. Until BH and the HLP produces these mysterious notes and outlines, and there is some way to verify these documents are genuine, I will never believe they based Dune 7 and the other McDune books off anything FH had planned.

Mark my word, if I was a billionaire I would buy the HLP, fire everyone there, disgrace BH and TheKJA, then officially declare the McDune books to be non-canon crap that will never again be referenced in any forthcoming Dune media.

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Re: "Navigators of Dune" Pre-hate Thread

Postby Freakzilla » 11 Jan 2015 16:27

SandRider wrote:...

I know y'all don't want to read all that babble, so I'll summarize:
Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel.


Thank you!
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Re: "Navigators of Dune" Pre-hate Thread

Postby MuaB'Beep » 12 Jan 2015 07:01

SandRider wrote:oh ... here's Keith's Blagh:
http://kjablog.com/brainstorming-navigators-of-dune/

I know y'all don't want to read all that babble, so I'll summarize:
Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel.


I never wanted to admit it but sometimes I had this feeling that McDune was written by drunk people. Not simple incompetence and lack of imagination but purposeful laziness and disrespect for the end reader. I think those books were written by drunks because their characters also act like they were alcoholics and nothing makes any sense or has any real purpose or goal.

I think after the initial success of the prequel trilogy Bobo & Hack just threw their gloves and went full improv. Their books are getting worse and worse to the level of being almost impossible to read. By mistake I read Poop of Dune and Farts of Dune - nothing less than 1000 page long Jessica and Alia clit measuring contest. Shitterhood was downright on the level of medium-class star wars fanfics that are free and plentiful on the web.

I wanted to write a full rant about PoD and WoD but righ now I see no purpose - the book is written by drunks and thus everything makes perfect sense. It is like hoping that a chimpanzee could write a poem but he just poops on the piece of paper, smears his shit over the room and sticks pen in his ass at the end - it is something to be expected.

I only expect their next "world hit novel" would be Leto of Dune - one day before leaving Caladan for Arrakis, giedian engineer Shee T'Ead invents a a independent-thinking programmable invisible hunter-seeker called "armageddon bringer"- he is called by Vlad (and killed) while hunter-seeker is put inside Rabban ass. Rabban is then sent to Caladan with a official truce and peace treaty document between the houses - while his real purpose is to pull his pants in front of the Duke so hunter-seeker can fly from his ass and kill Leto. Whole book is about Rabban talking with his artificial intelligence self-conscious hunter-seeker stuck in his ass, Leto moping, Jessica doing nothing, Shaddam being abnoxious, Vlad eating little babies, Fenring being a ninja and Paul being awesome little rascal at everything. Upon arriving Rabban is stopped by Gurney who kicks him in the dick castrating him and Duncan who kicks him in the ass breaking hunter-seeker inside - thus foiling the assasination attempt. Everything ends well and nothing of value was lost.

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Re: "Navigators of Dune" Pre-hate Thread

Postby Robspierre » 12 Jan 2015 19:49

MuaB'Beep wrote:
SandRider wrote:oh ... here's Keith's Blagh:
http://kjablog.com/brainstorming-navigators-of-dune/

I know y'all don't want to read all that babble, so I'll summarize:
Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel.


I never wanted to admit it but sometimes I had this feeling that McDune was written by drunk people. Not simple incompetence and lack of imagination but purposeful laziness and disrespect for the end reader. I think those books were written by drunks because their characters also act like they were alcoholics and nothing makes any sense or has any real purpose or goal.

I think after the initial success of the prequel trilogy Bobo & Hack just threw their gloves and went full improv. Their books are getting worse and worse to the level of being almost impossible to read. By mistake I read Poop of Dune and Farts of Dune - nothing less than 1000 page long Jessica and Alia clit measuring contest. Shitterhood was downright on the level of medium-class star wars fanfics that are free and plentiful on the web.

I wanted to write a full rant about PoD and WoD but righ now I see no purpose - the book is written by drunks and thus everything makes perfect sense. It is like hoping that a chimpanzee could write a poem but he just poops on the piece of paper, smears his shit over the room and sticks pen in his ass at the end - it is something to be expected.

I only expect their next "world hit novel" would be Leto of Dune - one day before leaving Caladan for Arrakis, giedian engineer Shee T'Ead invents a a independent-thinking programmable invisible hunter-seeker called "armageddon bringer"- he is called by Vlad (and killed) while hunter-seeker is put inside Rabban ass. Rabban is then sent to Caladan with a official truce and peace treaty document between the houses - while his real purpose is to pull his pants in front of the Duke so hunter-seeker can fly from his ass and kill Leto. Whole book is about Rabban talking with his artificial intelligence self-conscious hunter-seeker stuck in his ass, Leto moping, Jessica doing nothing, Shaddam being abnoxious, Vlad eating little babies, Fenring being a ninja and Paul being awesome little rascal at everything. Upon arriving Rabban is stopped by Gurney who kicks him in the dick castrating him and Duncan who kicks him in the ass breaking hunter-seeker inside - thus foiling the assasination attempt. Everything ends well and nothing of value was lost.




Please don't insult drunks. Make no mistake, they planned this shit, it is what they intentionally want to write. That's worse.

Rob

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Re: "Navigators of Dune" Pre-hate Thread

Postby georgiedenbro » 12 Jan 2015 22:35

Robspierre wrote:
Please don't insult drunks. Make no mistake, they planned this shit, it is what they intentionally want to write. That's worse.

Rob


I'll go one further: They planned that shit, and they did so with great pride. But also with great scorn, because the bloated elevation of oneself will typically involve the implicit diminishing of those who came before. That FH wrote the books in the past means, to some, that it is therefore old or out-of-date work. The scornful pride will suggest that a revision will therefore be an improvement; that newness is a good in itself. That, alongside the brand of egotism stamped "we made this" was already enough to damn the project from the start. Even if KJA had been a writer of superior skill his attitude alone would have eliminated any chance that he could write a noteworthy work. That he is also a pathetic writer makes the package complete. Not drunk, except on himself. The ultimate in putrescence.
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Re: "Navigators of Dune" Pre-hate Thread

Postby lotek » 13 Jan 2015 06:24

Your hate makes me feel young again :)

georgiedenbro wrote: Not drunk, except on himself. The ultimate in putrescence.


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