Mentats of Dune

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Omphalos
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Omphalos » 22 Mar 2014 03:17

This is good stuff Amp. None of it is as stupid as a vineyard on the death planet, but it is still moronic.

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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Naïve mind » 22 Mar 2014 03:29

Ampoliros wrote:well there are "swamp-dragons" but they are basically just alligators with poison fangs.

Here's a real gem for you though:

"Do you not have tribes? Rivalries?"
"Of course," said Taref. "All of us do. I am the son of a Naib."
"The third son of a Naib." Lillis said.
"Because of my two older brothers, I will never rule the tribe."


In a future novel, Taref will challenge his deeply inept older brother, thereby starting the ancient Fremen tradition, Explaining the origins of a tradition that ... is basically a trope that was tired in 1963, invoked by Frank Herbert to reinforce that the Fremen are violent and savage, and simultaneously create a little dilemma for the protagonist.

Don't get me wrong, even if it is silly to 'explain' something that never needed to be explained, brothers challenging each other to the death for the good of the tribe, that's potentially powerful stuff to write about. But I'm not sure it'll be very engrossing when it's condensed into Fourth Grade reading level English.

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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Ampoliros » 22 Mar 2014 14:31

No, everything that was important in the Dune universe happened because the cross-dressing independant robot helped us develop it.

So that in some corner of his brain, KJA can think of himself with pride because he created the Dune universe.
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Serkanner » 22 Mar 2014 19:00

Omphalos wrote:This is good stuff Amp. None of it is as stupid as a vineyard on the death planet, but it is still moronic.


I trump you with: torturing Bene Gesserit, as described in ... uhhh ... Hunters or Sandworms ... I don't care.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

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and wrote a Dune Novel."

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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Robspierre » 23 Mar 2014 20:25

Been demanding the so called 5 Star reviews to provide support for their claims about the book. Do people not know how to provide an imformed opinion? (Yes, I already know the answer.)

Rob

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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby SandRider » 23 Mar 2014 22:21

:cylon101:
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby lotek » 24 Mar 2014 05:14

Is there still anything left of the kjsasf btw?
Some of these reviews seem to be on par with what you'd expect from special people.
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Ampoliros » 24 Mar 2014 15:04

lotek wrote:Is there still anything left of the kjsasf btw?
Some of these reviews seem to be on par with what you'd expect from special people.


I don't think they are Very Special Forces, they read more like paid reviews, using a lot of keywords like things from the jacket cover and no specifics.

I'm really forcing myself to finish this. They do seem to be turning it back towards how the real books will work...but even doing that makes the first book and a half pointless. And by seem I mean they have acknowledged that they are off the tracks.

They took the New Cymeks to Arrakis to fight a sandworm, using a shield to summon it. The Sandworm lost, but then a second Sandworm came up and finished them off. The best part of the scene was when Shithead* the scientist laments the death of one of the Cymeks, who isn't dead yet. Then, a couple of paragraphs later the Cymek gets killed by the second worm.


*I've renamed a few of the characters because the person from history they are named after should not be humiliated like that.
Shithead is my name for "Ptolemy" who is Venport's head scientist. He used to be a nice person until Morondo killed his Tleilaxu best friend with fire.

Morondo's double gets his head blown off with a maula pistol on Arrakis by the Freeman saboteur, they bring the body back to Morondo's home and are talking around it when this gem happens:

"Ellonda came into the room bearing a luncheon tray, and she nearly dropped the platter upon seeing the dead body that looked so much like Manford Torondo. "It's Horrible, just horrible!" The dishes clattered as the old woman searched for a place to set down the tray. "Do you need me to clean that up, sir?"
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby SandRider » 24 Mar 2014 16:05

The best part of the scene was when Shithead* the scientist laments the death of one of the Cymeks, who isn't dead yet.


I'd be interested in a copy-pasta of that,
for evil use in the Amazon Basement ....
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Ampoliros » 24 Mar 2014 22:48

Success is a matter of definitions. What is victory? What is wealth? What is power?

—DIRECTEUR JOSEF VENPORT, VenHold internal memo

Over the years, the scientists on Denali had sent Josef Venport numerous exuberant proposals, many of which had seemed absurd and unobtainable. New shield generators, thoughtrode interfaces, mob stunners, atomic pulse-flashes, even mechanical “cricket” saboteurs.

Not wanting to place limitations on his remote think tank, he told Administrator Noffe to encourage imagination in all its forms, so long as it led to developments that could inflict harm on the Butlerians.

But this was more than he had ever hoped for.

Josef, Draigo, and Ptolemy sat under the bright desert sun watching seven mechanical walkers guided by Navigator brains. He was already impressed with what Ptolemy had produced. The fearsome machines moved with remarkable swiftness and ease. Josef smiled: Results such as this justified the fortune he had poured into the Denali research facility.

Now he had his own Titans.

His great-grandmother had been tortured by one of the ancient Titans, and that ordeal had transformed Norma Cenva into more than a human being. Her husband, Aurelius Venport, had devoted his life to fighting the cymeks. How ironic that Josef Venport was responsible for creating a new group of Titans that were even more powerful than their predecessors.

Ptolemy touched his earadio. “Still no sign of a worm.”

“Maybe the creatures are afraid,” Josef said.

“I doubt sandworms know fear, Directeur,” Draigo said. “From the vibrations, the creatures would have no way of knowing these cymeks were different from a spice factory. And we were anticipating that the Holtzman field from the shields would madden at least one worm.”

“I was being facetious, Mentat.”

At last, a ripple rolled along under the sand, casting it up like the crest of a wave. The great worm plowed through a succession of dunes as if they were no thicker than air, moving with the speed of a projectile fired from a weapon.

Josef rose out of his observation chair. “What a monster!” Beside him, Draigo’s dark eyes widened as he drank in details. Ptolemy looked both awed and terrified.

It seemed that the theories about the effect of shields on the creatures might prove correct after all.

The enraged sandworm exploded upward. As the huge maw came out of the sand, dust sheeted off its curved segments.

Inside their preservation canisters, the proto-Navigator brains did not panic. Having researched the behavior of sandworms, they positioned the walker bodies in a precise attack configuration, as if this were a military drill. Three of the cymeks switched off their shields and bounded away like jumping spiders.

The worm slammed down like a battering ram, but the agile cymeks sprang in opposite directions, their movements carefully coordinated, as if the brains were telepathically linked. Even from the distant outcropping Josef could feel the tremors as the monster dove under the sand.

Scuttling to the dune tops for a better strategic position, the seven cymeks launched artillery, hammering the sandworm’s segmented body with explosion after explosion. So much dust, sand, and smoke boiled into the air that Josef could barely see.

The worm rose up again, thrashing about like an unchecked high-pressure hose. It slammed into one of the cymeks and knocked the machine body into the air, then scooped downward to swallow one of the other cymeks, Hok Evander, who was still protected by a shimmering shield.

In his observation chair, Ptolemy let out a groan as the struggling cymek vanished down the creature’s gullet. Josef was surprised at his lack of objectivity. “This is a test, Dr. Ptolemy. One must expect losses.”

The remaining five Titans redoubled their attack, shooting flames, lasbeams, and exploding shells. Although several of the worm’s armored segments looked ragged and damaged, the attack only enraged the beast. It lifted itself up and then crashed down on top of two more cymeks, smashing them into the sand. The behemoth was so massive that even the walkers’ enhanced armor could not protect them.

The last three Titans spread out equidistant from the worm and continued to attack. The creature let out a rumbling groan like exhaust from a starship engine.

Then, oddly, its serpentine form bulged and swelled, as if repeated detonations were occurring from its interior. A dark stain appeared on the ring segments, then smoke spurted out from a widening wound. Sizzling chemicals dripped down its tough hide.

From within the worm's digestive tract, the swallowed Titan, still shielded, unleashed explosives and deadly acid to cut its way out. The escaping cymek left timed projectiles behind, which exploded as soon as the machine walker scrambled free.

Josef chuckled, unable to tear his gaze away. Beside him, Ptolemy looked as if he might be ill at seeing so much devastation.

Mortally wounded, the worm crashed onto the sands, leaking fluids from myriad injurise, its gullet torn open. Seeing the vulnerable spot, the surviving cymeks continued to attack until the sandworm shuddered and collapsed across the flattened dunes.

Grinning, Josef turned to Ptolemy. "Most Impressive!"

The scientist groaned. "But I lost three of my finest Titans--almost half of my finest cymeks--to destroy one worm! They were my experimental subjects, and I spent so much time and care--" Agitated, he began coughing so hard that he nearly fell out of the observation chair. "Two of them, Hok and Adem, rescued me on Denali when my life support failed."

"Don't worry, they performed well--beyond my expectations." Josef clapped him on the shoulder. "More important than that, you proved that a sandworm can be killed! We have the means to do it."

Ptolemy slumped in his chair, pale and uncertain, but found his resolve. "Based on this demonstration, Directeur, I shall make improvements to the walker bodies to ensure that the others are more protected." The churned sand looked as if it had been the site of an aerial bombardment. "The Navigator brains for the next batch of Titans will have better data for increased performance." He looked deeply sad.

Suddenly, with an eruption that flung gouts of sand in all directions, a second sandworm lurched out of the dunes.

The creatures were suspected to be territorial, but the Mentat had already suggested that this might be a contested zone. Surprised by the new monster, the Titans could not react in time. The second worm smashed one cymek in its first blow, swept two other walker bodies away, and swallowed the fourth.

Ptolemy fell to his knees from the chair in deep despair. "I can't believe it, I can't believe it." All lost. Xinshop, Yabido, all seven of his elite force. Tears streamed down his dusty cheeks.

The first sandworm, the dying one, continued to quiver and twitch on the sand. The second eyelessly regarded its rival, uninterested in the ruined cymeks or the distant Venhold observers. For long moments, the creature loomed over the severely damaged body of the dead worm. and then glided out onto the open dunes from which the first worm had come, claiming the territory for itself.

On the rock outcropping, Venhold workers hurried out of the landed spacecraft, folded up the observation chairs, and prepared to depart.

Ptolemy continued to stare at the battleground. "They're all gone. Every one of our finest test subjects. I...I still have much work to do."

But Josef felt exhilarated. Don't be downcast--that was tremendous. And you have plenty more proto-navigators brains to work with. Ah, just imagine what those cymeks could do against the Half-Manford. We'll need more of your creations,many more, and I authorize you to build more.

He urged the research scientist back into the shuttle. "You're going to help me defeat our enemies, Dr. Ptolemy. Your cymeks will prove invaluable, both here on Arrakis and in the battles against the barbarians." He pondered for a moment longer. "And, if it should ever come to this, they will fight on out side in a war to take control of the entire Imperium."
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Redstar » 24 Mar 2014 23:52

Ughhhh. Everything about that is so bad. I should have just taken your word that it was drivel.

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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Ampoliros » 25 Mar 2014 01:38

I highlighted the part where his shield was still working after he busted out of the worm with explosives and timed explosives.

1. The other cymeks were shooting at the worm with lasguns while he was inside and several of them were shielded
2. The other cymek at the end gets swallowed, but since he didn't have a name we'll just assume he didn't have a shield either, or acid, explosives, and timed explosives.

Also something tells me that shooting a worm full of holes doesn't exactly kill it. I think it was Dune...Yeah Dune said you practically had to destroy each segment to kill it.

I'm saving one of my favorites for the final review, but I made sure to add the part about the freemen using primogeniture to the Good Reads quote page.
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Serkanner » 25 Mar 2014 05:49

"The great worm plowed through a succession of dunes as if they were no thicker than air, moving with the speed of a projectile fired from a weapon."

WTF!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

The speed of a typical .22 LR bullet = 1200 Km/hour ( 720 miles/hour )
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."

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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Freakzilla » 25 Mar 2014 06:25

I think I'm going to vomit, "like an unchecked high-pressure hose". :puke:
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby lotek » 25 Mar 2014 06:42

Who wants chowdün?
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Naib » 25 Mar 2014 08:13

Serkanner wrote:"The great worm plowed through a succession of dunes as if they were no thicker than air, moving with the speed of a projectile fired from a weapon."



:puke:

There are no words for how bad this is.

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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Ampoliros » 25 Mar 2014 12:43

Did I mention that that was an entire chapter?
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Omphalos » 25 Mar 2014 13:19

Serkanner wrote:
Omphalos wrote:This is good stuff Amp. None of it is as stupid as a vineyard on the death planet, but it is still moronic.


I trump you with: torturing Bene Gesserit, as described in ... uhhh ... Hunters or Sandworms ... I don't care.


You're right Serk. The stupid does pile atop itself, doesn't it.

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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby SandRider » 25 Mar 2014 17:34

Ampoliros wrote:Did I mention that that was an entire chapter?


I don't doubt that atall ... but seriously, dude ... there is no way
I'm actually going to read all that ... I mean, I don't think I could ...
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Naïve mind » 25 Mar 2014 17:43

Maybe it's the Imp of the perverse talking, but ... I wonder what this 'chapter' would look like written in the style of Frank Herbert.

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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Ampoliros » 25 Mar 2014 20:26

Naïve mind wrote:Maybe it's the Imp of the perverse talking, but ... I wonder what this 'chapter' would look like written in the style of Frank Herbert.


"Muad'dib repeatedly stabbed the 3-P-O until he could no longer see it infecting the future."
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby lotek » 26 Mar 2014 06:27

For he is the Queeseat Diktahiker, the non fulcrum that takes without giving and that can be many stupids at once.
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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Robspierre » 26 Mar 2014 21:42

OOOO, looks like fresh meat, I'm goin' in, loaded doon with uisge beatha.


Rob

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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Robspierre » 26 Mar 2014 22:28

This is what happens when I'm drunk. In response to the only attempt at a review by By E. W. Lewis "ewlewis_bg"


Actually, Frank's intentions were a bit different.

The Hero's Journey. What Frank did was in Dune present us a tale that followed the tropes of the Hero's Journey from beginning to end. It is what he did in Dune Messiah that angered people. He INTENTIONALLY inverted the Hero's Journey. He showed us the myth of the messiah and how people stop being humans in order to place all responsibility in the hands of others. In order to do this, the hero, Paul needs to be destroyed. By Proclaiming himself the messiah, Paul has turned into the same institutions as the Bene Gesserit and the Spacing Guild. In order ot set people free in order ot protect them fro mthemselves and nsure the survival of all humanity, Paul must make a sacrifice, he can't do that. His Son, Leto II chooses that path and loses all traces of humanity in order ot secure a future that will ensure the survival of humanity no matter what the threat.

These ideas and concepts are deep and oven throughtout the six works by Frank. The turds turned out by Keith and Bobo o nthe other hand attempt to force the Hero's Journey structure on the Dune Universe when in reality it does not belong, The intentional breaking of the Hero's Journey is an explicit thrust at shattering bonds of literature that people adopt as they build up walls around them and ideas and thoughts calcify until there is no honest and constant reflection and evaluation. In simple terms, Frank wrote in a way to promote the fight against stagnation. Society self perpetuates stagnation and Leto II sacrificed his humanity in order to create a new humanity, one that would be in continual flux, fighting stagnation.

The new works from Keith and Bobo are none of these. They are fan fiction attempts to re-write the original six works of Western Literature written by Frank Herbert so that they can understand them. The fact that they are incapable of grasping the underlying meaning and themes despite having access to a variety of authorial materials is a crime against literature because they have bee nforced to saying our drivel is the "true" story and the original writings are merely the propaganda of those in power. Think on that thought. The two authors who have attempted to add to the original author's work are so afraid of the truths and ideas within said work that they made the claim that the writings as writen by Frank are nothing more than propaganda. Now tell me that this is the work of people who understand the originals. They are so afraid of people shaking off the shackles that they have imposed upon the story and becoming human by no longer blindly accepting what is said that they ahd to make the claim that their writing is the one and only true story!

Frank wrote about people waking to the endless potential as a human and shaking off the bonds imposed by others. Humans think, animals


Rob

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Re: Mentats of Dune

Postby Ampoliros » 29 Mar 2014 00:45

Caladan has Sea Worms.
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