Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Image
    Abandon all sanity ye who enter here

Moderators: ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Omphalos, Freakzilla

Excape Felicity
Posts: 23
Joined: 22 May 2013 06:25

Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Excape Felicity » 20 Aug 2013 13:26

Years before finding this forum I picked up one of the 'new' books ( I can't remember which one ) and read a few pages. It was awful.
I skimmed through it for some drawn out internal dialogue from a character analysing the fundamental properties of religion / government / prescience. The kind of thing you expect in a Dune novel. There was none. Just painfully shallow cartoonish prose about space battles.

So was I mistaken? Is their any purpose in reading the 'new' books?

I notice a lot of OH on this forum seem to actually read the 'new' books out of masochism. I'm not sure that's what I'm looking for.

User avatar
Sardaukar Capt
Posts: 167
Joined: 30 Oct 2011 12:28
Location: Texas

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Sardaukar Capt » 20 Aug 2013 14:31

In the beginning we were sold a bill of goods that the 2 Hacks were continuing the Dune series based of 1000s of pages of notes and outlines from Frank. It's pretty clear a decade later from reading these books and reading interviews with the 2 twits that its all a lie. They are basically reimagining Dune in their own image because Frank probably didn't leave detailed notes about the origins of it all or detailed notes of Dune 7 that tied it back to the origins the Hacks Twain have written about. Its one reason they've never release Frank's papers they've supposedly found to any libraries or literary foundations.

If they were good books written in the tradition of Dune that gave their take on the history before the first Dune novel, I could live with that, if they would admit it and if the books had been well written. But neither is the case.

So no, none of the books are actually good. The House series is a little better than the Butlerian Jihad series which is sad because I thought the Butlerian Jihad era has such potential until I actually read the book. I really became clear with that book how contrived and derivative their stuff is. If you ever read an interview about how fast they write and how they write by dictation, you realized they don't do any research, they don't make any notes, they just start spewing out cliche, hackneyed drivel that sources most major sci-fi movies you can think of. But what do you expect about someone that brags about writing a whole book in a few days by dictation while hiking up mountains. It's really pathetic that there are actual fans of this garbage those 2 write.

If you've haven't yet, read all 6 of Frank's Dune books before tackling any of theirs. And honestly only do it if you can't stop looking at the train wreck and want to see what the fuss is about. But I would only read the HOUSE trilogy and the Butlerian Jihad Trilogy and maybe Sisterhood of Dune. I would avoid like the plague, Hunters & Sandworms of Dune because I think they change too much about Heretics & Chapterhouse and even GEoD. Also, the black death that are Paul of Dune and Winds of Dune that are interquels set between Frank's original 3 Dune books and from what I've read here they try to change the canon Frank put in his own text. Things that aren't vague subtext or backstories left to the interpretation of the reader but they change thinks he explicitly say in those Dune books. That is pure a pure cash-grab pile of shit in my book and shows Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson for what they really are. Hacks that want to co-op and reimagine Dune in their own image.
The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)

Excape Felicity
Posts: 23
Joined: 22 May 2013 06:25

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Excape Felicity » 20 Aug 2013 16:06

But is sounds like you have read every single one of these 'new' books without fail.

Why?

I don't get. There are so many good books in the world. Too many for me to waste time reading books that are so bad it is offensive.

One good thing those guys have done it to set the bar so low, that it's virtually impossible to do worse.

I feel some fan-fic stirring deep inside my OM.

User avatar
Sardaukar Capt
Posts: 167
Joined: 30 Oct 2011 12:28
Location: Texas

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Sardaukar Capt » 20 Aug 2013 16:46

I haven't read everyone one of them. Just the 3 HOUSE books and part of the B-Jihad series. I read those when they first came out and I was still under the illusion they were working from Frank Herbert's notes. They weren't good, they weren't the quality of Frank Herbert or even a hair on the pimple on the ass of Frank Herbert. I didn't expect great but I expected good and was let down. But it was Dune and I thought at the time Frank Herbert's notes and outlines and direction. So I put up with being treated like a 12yo reader and keep reading the HOUSE series. I then read Butlerian Jihad. It was terrible and I couldn't believe this is what Frank Herbert had in mind for the Butlerian Jihad era but in a way I was mesmerized by how bad it was and wanted to see how they shoehorned the garbage they came up with into Frank Herbet's universe. So moved on to book 2 in that series, Machine Crusade, and I only got half way through it. I couldn't do it anymore. The writing and story were just horrible. Haven't gone back. I won't read the "Dune 7" books because I came to know via this forum that they tie back to the Butlerian Jihad books in a way that we now know Frank Herbert never intended. I also won't ever read the interquel books set between Frank's Dune novels because they basically change what he wrote.

After Butlerian Jihad, I came online to see if anyone thought this stuff was a steaming pile like me and found the Jacurutu. It's here and other places I've learned about what the other books in the series are about that I haven't read yet and probably will never get around to reading.

Like most here, if I ever go back and read any of their other Dune books that I haven't gotten to, it will just be to see the train wreck which is hard to look away from. And it will be to continue to document what they've done to Frank Herbert's legacy.

But if you are wanting to know if any are good, the answer is no, they've gotten steadily worse from what I can tell and they add absolutely nothing to the universe set down in Frank Herbert's 6 books.
The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)

Excape Felicity
Posts: 23
Joined: 22 May 2013 06:25

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Excape Felicity » 20 Aug 2013 19:37

Yes I think it's like a moth to a flame 4many of us 'Orthodox Herbertians'.

Perhaps somewhere FH is glad that his son is trying 2destroy his father's Godhead and is disdainful of us all
For worshipping him so much. 4giv my awful typing on supersamall old smartphiobe

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18164
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Freakzilla » 21 Aug 2013 08:09

I think a lot of us read them just to stay informed back when our Jihad was in full swing.

I read up until the revealed that Marty and Daniel were robots... :puke:

I couldn't take any more after that.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
Sardaukar Capt
Posts: 167
Joined: 30 Oct 2011 12:28
Location: Texas

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Sardaukar Capt » 21 Aug 2013 09:21

Once I read on here about what they did with Marty & Daniel, I chose not to even read those 2 book. I knew for sure at that point all of this had been bullshit on their part and nothing to do with any notes or outline Frank Herbert left.

The only real curiosity I have at this point since I stopped midway through Machine Crusade is what sophmorish way do they plan to turn the Harkonnon's evil and how they make the leap from the amalgam of X-Men Jean Grey and Storm which are these sorceresses into the Bene Gesserit. I'm not curious enough yet to actually finish the B-Jihad period books nor read Shitterhood. One day I'll search the thread on here for the info.
The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18164
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Freakzilla » 21 Aug 2013 12:22

Sardaukar Capt wrote:The only real curiosity I have at this point since I stopped midway through Machine Crusade is what sophmorish way do they plan to turn the Harkonnon's evil


From what I recall, they really didn't.

and how they make the leap from the amalgam of X-Men Jean Grey and Storm which are these sorceresses into the Bene Gesserit. I'm not curious enough yet to actually finish the B-Jihad period books nor read Shitterhood.


Magic pool. Yep.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

Excape Felicity
Posts: 23
Joined: 22 May 2013 06:25

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Excape Felicity » 21 Aug 2013 15:43

I remember many years ago reading 'Man of 2 worlds' nd thinking it was quitte good. Even had some nice
Nano-tech in it if I recall.

It's a shame Brian 'Let the wrong one in' with KJA. Perhaps 1 day Brian will go Darth on KJA and throw hime over a precipice. Figuratively speaking of course.

User avatar
Sardaukar Capt
Posts: 167
Joined: 30 Oct 2011 12:28
Location: Texas

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Sardaukar Capt » 21 Aug 2013 17:31

I also enjoyed Man of Two Worlds although Its been probably 15 to 20 yrs since I read it. From what I've read, Brian wrote the first draft, although I assumed they outlined it together, for about a year. Then turned it over to Frank and he took 7 to 8 months with it. I'm guessing he pretty much rewrote it since I've seen the result of BH's work with KJA.
The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)

User avatar
Naïve mind
Posts: 388
Joined: 26 Aug 2012 05:58

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Naïve mind » 22 Aug 2013 01:23

I recently read Man of two Worlds -- quite good, and I wouldn't bet on most of it being Frank's work. I've also read A whisper of Caladan Seas, which I presume is the first collaboration between KJA and BH. This was actually decent. Not in a high prose kind of way, but in a decent, quirky fanfic kind of way.

Both stories involve the boundary between storytelling and reality being pierced. One story features a character named Jongleur, who is a master storyteller. The second features a character who is a master storyteller from the planet Jongleur.

I'm guessing this is Brian Herbert's influence.

User avatar
Ampoliros
Posts: 2518
Joined: 14 Mar 2008 11:22
Location: I think we took a wrong turn...

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Ampoliros » 22 Aug 2013 01:39

I read the House series until the BG turned invisible and giggled like school-girls when the Baron came to visit.

I read the first book of the Butlerian series.

There are some very good synopsis of the books on wikipedia, and I started detailing everything wrong with the books when they started telling us the originals were the ones that were wrong.

Paul of Dune Notes...seem to be missing? or did I never do them...perhaps they have been repressed enough.


Winds of Dune Notes
http://www.jacurutu.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3116

Sisterhood Notes
http://www.jacurutu.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3116

Hellhole "of Dune"
http://www.jacurutu.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2708a
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus

Unfront
Posts: 100
Joined: 18 Dec 2008 21:29
Location: Portland

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Unfront » 23 Aug 2013 14:12

One really has to turn their mind off to find anything about the McDune pile of paper any good. I have to echo what others have said, some of us Orthodox Herbertarians read them as if we were watching a train wreck in action. A train wreck is not something that you want to have happen, however when it does, you just can't peel your eyes off of it.

Are any of the books good? No. Not if you really appreciate Frank Herbert's Dune for what it really is. To me, Dune remains a thought provoking essay on humanity. McDune (and all forms of it) are just cartoonish buffoonery fit to be made into an afterschool special.

Here is a better question: Are there any 'new' books that are worse than others? Yes! All are bad, but the "Heroes of Dune" series was the absolute bottom of the stink hole. That series was canceled half way through if that tells you anything about it. Even then, the hacks twain could not tell the truth about what was happening. They claimed that they just “could not wait to start writing about the schools.” Time will tell that they will never revisit and finish up the Zeros of Dune series.

Dune (the original Frank Herbert written series of six books) set the bar for science fiction at the time. The nuDune by the hacks Keith J Anderson and Brian Pherbert have nothing original about them. They just mimic other science fiction in a very poor manner. If you want to read them, you should. You might get a laugh! Just don’t take them too seriously.
Anything Dune not written by Frank Herbert is simply Fan Fiction.

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18164
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Freakzilla » 23 Aug 2013 14:52

Literary train wreck, I like that. :lol:

They're like a novelization of a mash-up of 50s B SF movies... set in the Dune universe.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
cmsahe
Posts: 598
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 22:40
Location: Mexico City

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby cmsahe » 03 Nov 2013 02:39

Freakzilla wrote:I think a lot of us read them just to stay informed back when our Jihad was in full swing.

I read up until the revealed that Marty and Daniel were robots... :puke:

I couldn't take any more after that.

hey BH/KJA if you are monitoring us, you could write the mother of all the croosovers!!

Have Daniel, being revealed as:


Daneel Olivaw

:twisted:
Only the books written by Frank Herbert are canon.


Who We Are and What We Stand For
http://www.jacurutu.com/viewtopic.php?p=79778#p79778
----
Carlos Santillan, aka cmsahe

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18164
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby Freakzilla » 04 Nov 2013 08:27

cmsahe wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I think a lot of us read them just to stay informed back when our Jihad was in full swing.

I read up until the revealed that Marty and Daniel were robots... :puke:

I couldn't take any more after that.

hey BH/KJA if you are monitoring us, you could write the mother of all the croosovers!!

Have Daniel, being revealed as:


Daneel Olivaw

:twisted:


Inside one fo Dune's moons? :P
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
lotek
Posts: 5735
Joined: 28 Jul 2009 08:33

Re: Are ANY of the 'new' books any good?

Postby lotek » 04 Nov 2013 08:55

Freakzilla wrote:
cmsahe wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I think a lot of us read them just to stay informed back when our Jihad was in full swing.

I read up until the revealed that Marty and Daniel were robots... :puke:

I couldn't take any more after that.

hey BH/KJA if you are monitoring us, you could write the mother of all the croosovers!!

Have Daniel, being revealed as:


Daneel Olivaw

:twisted:


Inside one fo Dune's moons? :P



which is actually a giant space rock station that can destroy with a word and a giant laser (maybe attached to a sand shark)
Spice is the worm's gonads.


Return to “˲”