Amp's SoD Notes

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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Robspierre » 08 Feb 2012 21:31

SandChigger wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:If people even read at all these days they pretend they're intelligent. Hell, people pay for Bibles.

Oh fuck, don't get me started! :twisted:

:lol:


They pretend they are intelligent because they DO NOT read Freak, ignorance is something to be proud of.

Rob

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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Freakzilla » 09 Feb 2012 07:35

Robspierre wrote:
SandChigger wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:If people even read at all these days they pretend they're intelligent. Hell, people pay for Bibles.

Oh fuck, don't get me started! :twisted:

:lol:


They pretend they are intelligent because they DO NOT read Freak, ignorance is something to be proud of.

Rob


I didn't mean to imply that those two groups were the same, sorry.

People buy bibles only to follow along with the preacher on Sunday and Wednesday, they don't actually read or understand.
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby SandChigger » 09 Feb 2012 18:11

You're going to get me started... :naughty:

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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Nekhrun » 09 Feb 2012 18:40

Freakzilla wrote:
Robspierre wrote:
SandChigger wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:If people even read at all these days they pretend they're intelligent. Hell, people pay for Bibles.

Oh fuck, don't get me started! :twisted:

:lol:


They pretend they are intelligent because they DO NOT read Freak, ignorance is something to be proud of.

Rob


I didn't mean to imply that those two groups were the same, sorry.

People buy bibles only to follow along with the preacher on Sunday and Wednesday, they don't actually read or understand.

Here's what it's come to: http://literallyunbelievable.org/
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Freakzilla » 09 Feb 2012 19:02

:lol:
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Ampoliros » 09 Feb 2012 20:35

When did stopping for a second to think become way to hard?
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Freakzilla » 09 Feb 2012 22:57

Ampoliros wrote:When did stopping for a second to think become way to hard?


I think you're in the denial stage.
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Freakzilla » 09 Feb 2012 23:09

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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Ampoliros » 10 Feb 2012 12:26

I posted this review briefly on Amazon, but I took it down to work on it some more.

Now to start, I'll begin with a bombshell.

This is the best Dune book they have written.

WHA? Has Amp turned traitor? GET THE HANGIN TRIPOD!

No no no my fellow cast out, let me explain.

When I say best, remember the caveat that this is still a KJA book, meaning it was still written by the most philistine hack alive. (Hey Kev, philistine means you don't hold anything sacred.)

What I mean is that this book is not a Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson 'Dune' book. This is a Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson and TOR's entire production/editorial staff trying to resuscitate a milked-dead cash-cow.

The first two chapters stank of a third hand (or more) overlooking the process. It felt as if Team McDune had sat down and edited, re-editied, polished and actually thought about a finished product, rather than simply letting it fall out the mouth of a hiking hack onto paper.

The font and type appear to be much smaller and more closely spaced in order to give it a more serious appearance, rather than the larger kid-friendly (less imposing) type of the other books.

EDIT: This is the best Dune book they have produced. Make more sense now?

Let me explain the title. Yes, obviously this is the first in (yet another) trilogy*. What I mean is that in many cases, they are taking elements of the Dune mythos and running them in the complete opposite direction from the originals:

The Butlerians have broken down into mindless religious fanatics who are Obviously Bad Guys.

Next we have the bastardization of the CET. We are beaten over the head with the message: RELIGION BAD! That Religion was mindless and evil was not Frank's purpose at all.

The Swordmasters ally with the Butlerians for what reason? Just Because?

And why, when working for the anti-tech fanatics do they use lightsab...sorry "Pulse-swords" and then centuries later they use normal swords?

Wait... In Frank's discussion of the CET, the Guild and the Sisterhood are already around...

KJA acts like a Feudal Lord demanding the right of Prima Nocte with anything Dune. The originals might have had something come out this way, but it was really E** behind the scenes in everything.

The Guild is actually a shipping company in competition with cheaper, less safe spacefolders. Its owned by Venport. He has no reason to give up his monopoly, yet the Guild obvious isn't a company owned by one family. Maybe we'll see this guy spacefolded into a million pieces by renegade Navigators...except that that isn't how spacefolding works. I mean Norma-God can do it, because like all KJA creations she's a billion times more powerful than whatever Frank made. We'll be seeing Norma Deus-Ex-Machina a lot of things in this trilogy. She's already started doing it in this book, twice.

The "Freemen" in this book make the Museum Fremen in God Emperor look like the Fremen in Dune by comparison. If you understand that analogy, you'll understand how deep an insult that is. KJA sells Fremen for their water.

I mean I would assume that a "duel to the death" is "to the death". It's kinda right there in the name. And its kinda pointless to let both characters live in a "duel to the death" ESPECIALLY when you pointlessly kill one of them in the next scene.

Harlon Ellison sued James Cameron over parts of the Terminator IP. I think Cameron needs to sue KJA for the same reasons.

*Why do they always come in packs? It's because these books aren't meant to tell a story, they are meant to sell you a product. As with all manufactured products the process is to create them as fast as possible and ship them out. Why would KJA tell you a story in one book when he can sell a trilogy?

** I refuse to use some of the names they give characters, Erasmus among the first. Desiderus Erasmus was a great human mind, not the retarded robot in this book.
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby lotek » 10 Feb 2012 13:40

The "Freemen" in this book make the Museum Fremen in God Emperor look like the Fremen in Dune by comparison. If you understand that analogy, you'll understand how deep an insult that is. KJA sells Fremen for their water.


The more I see that expression the more I like it and how fitting it is.
Also, the freemen are the museum fremen of the Museum Fremen is just the perfect touch to summarize what the hack did to Dune... With the slight difference that he's no God Emperor but in his puny little mind, and his golden path is the trail of bags of crisps leading to the cupboards...

If this is a draft, can't wait to see the final result !
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Sardaukar Capt » 02 Mar 2012 19:38

Amp if it wasn't said enough, thanks for taking one for the team.

I've been stuck trying to finish Machine Crud for a year or 2 now and still can't finish that steaming pile. I don't think I'll ever make it down the line to Shitterhood.
The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)

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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Nekhrun » 02 Mar 2012 20:15

Sardaukar Capt wrote:Amp if it wasn't said enough, thanks for taking one for the team.

I've been stuck trying to finish Machine Crud for a year or 2 now and still can't finish that steaming pile. I don't think I'll ever make it down the line to Shitterhood.

I got stuck on Paul of Dune after the Fremen diving contest. I just can't do it any more.
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Ampoliros » 02 Mar 2012 23:30

Sardaukar Capt wrote:Amp if it wasn't said enough, thanks for taking one for the team.

I've been stuck trying to finish Machine Crud for a year or 2 now and still can't finish that steaming pile. I don't think I'll ever make it down the line to Shitterhood.


Don't bother.

Butlerian Jihad
Machine Crusade -----> Pointless, irrelevant.
Battle of Corrino

Sisterhood of Dune -----> The authors themselves saying that the above trilogy was irrelevant.

House trilogy -----> Was crap until you get to the invisible giggling Bene Gesseritt. Then it was just idiotic trash by people who hadn't read the source material.

Paul of Dune -----> Irrelevant trash by people who still hadn't read the source material, and decided to just say the source material was wrong instead

Winds of Dune -----> "Hey you thought the first interquel was irrelevant trash? Did you know we're doing a QUADRILOGY!?!?!"

Throne of Due -----> TOR: "Hey Kev. Yeah. This shit ain't selling."

Hunters of Dune -----> Unless they accidentally used Frank's notes for a hand puppet play he wrote for a Special Ed school while he was high... then this book made no sense.

Sandworms of Dune -----> They stretched out that Special Ed play into two books by repeating things so often that even the special ed kids felt like their attention spans were being insulted. They tried to distract them with Transformers and Giant worms and ended up needing 3 Deus Ex Machina's to wrap up.
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Sardaukar Capt » 03 Mar 2012 01:59

I read the House books when they came out. Didn't expect much honestly and they didn't disappoint in that regard for sure. But it really turned to pure crap and they really lost me with the whole No-Ship garbage and the invisible BG. That was a true WTF moment.

They lost me with these Legends books when they sowed the seeds for Hunters/Sandworms with the blatant ripoff of the opening of Empire Strikes Back when the Giedi Prime Omnius sent out those freaking probe droids to the furthest reaches of the universe. Even before I knew what Cunters/Sandturds were about, I knew that freaking hack, bush league, juvenile tactic was a setup to bring the machines back in some future book of theirs. That gem of a plot point to me is just another nail in the coffin of these "Dune 7" notes they supposedly went by. FH would never use such a hackneyed tactic to setup this mysterious Enemy from Heretics & Chapterhouse.

This great plot point... the gem of the Dune 7 notes I'm sure. From Butthole Jehad:

When the work had been completed, Omnius used his watcheyes to observe the flurry of launches— five thousand probes simultaneously taking flight, programmed to scatter to the farthest corners of the galaxy, even if such flights took millennia. Timescales did not matter.

Compact units shaped like bubbles, the soaring probes filled the sky with sparkling lights and green exhaust plumes. At appropriate future times, Omnius would reconnect with each of those mechanisms, one by one.

Thinking machines were capable of making long-term plans— and living to see them carried out. By the time humans expanded into those distant star systems, Omnius would already be there.

Waiting.
The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)

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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Ampoliros » 03 Mar 2012 04:17

Don't worry, because God will just take the evil machines to another dimension.
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Sardaukar Capt » 03 Mar 2012 14:19

Ampoliros wrote:Don't worry, because God will just take the evil machines to another dimension.


Are you shitting me? Is that what happened in Sandturds of Dune? All I knew about it was the Enemy was the McDune machines again. Holy crap what a steaming pile.
The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)

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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Ampoliros » 03 Mar 2012 14:44

Well you know, I could have made up some ridiculous crap about Leto being able to shift from human to worm form at will, or after 35,000 years the solution to humanities problems was one charismatic cyborg leader enveloping all of humanity under a single banner.

But I don't have to make that up. Because someone already thought it was good enough, no BETTER than the original canon.
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Sardaukar Capt » 03 Mar 2012 15:13

OMFG. I knew it would be bad but my god. I don't think I could ever stomach reading Cunters/Sandturds now. Reading these prequel books is one thing but what they've done with continuing one of Frank's books is ... damn even the most vile words I can come up with don't do that justice.
The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)

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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby lotek » 03 Mar 2012 16:56

Just to let you know right now, the pain doesn't go away, it just recedes for a while when life takes over, but every so often that idiot coughs up another turd of unwisdom and the whole godamn thing starts all over again.

Try reading them if you can, you just need to use the Z method to read them. (think of the difference Hawat saw between the Duke(s) and the fatman, too lazy to remember the exact quote, something like the baron needs a whole sentence when the duke could do with a word, and his father by just raising an eyebrow)

But in terms of "what not to do" they are just perfect. KJA managed to fuck up in a sentence just about everything Frank told us by omission...
So he can talk and talk, we and he know he's shit, and it's all that matters (now I'm gonna torture some insects, since apparently I'm a hater)
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby SandRider » 03 Mar 2012 17:46

tell him about how Duncan Idaho gets assimilated by the tranny robot ....



I wanna see his head s'plode open .... :twisted:
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Sardaukar Capt » 03 Mar 2012 17:56

SandRider wrote:tell him about how Duncan Idaho gets assimilated by the tranny robot ....



I wanna see his head s'plode open .... :twisted:


:o


I almost feel compelled to read those 2 books now because of the absurdity of it all. But I don't think I will because House and part of Legends I've read have already corrupted my memory of Dune as it is. I'm planning to read all 6 real Dune Chronicles soon in an attempt to purge the blasphemy from my mind. Plus its been a long time since I've read all 6 in a row so I'm due.
The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)

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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Nekhrun » 03 Mar 2012 19:34

Sardaukar Capt wrote:
SandRider wrote:tell him about how Duncan Idaho gets assimilated by the tranny robot ....

I wanna see his head s'plode open .... :twisted:


:o

I almost feel compelled to read those 2 books now because of the absurdity of it all. But I don't think I will because House and part of Legends I've read have already corrupted my memory of Dune as it is. I'm planning to read all 6 real Dune Chronicles soon in an attempt to purge the blasphemy from my mind. Plus its been a long time since I've read all 6 in a row so I'm due.

You might as well read those 2 now just to see how many inconsistencies and stupid shit he can cram into two books. It's kind of impressive.
"If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

Happy Memorial Day everyone! -James C. Harwood

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"Over 500 views for my 'Open Question' video." -Nebiros

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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby Sardaukar Capt » 03 Mar 2012 23:28

I haven't read Heretics or Chapterhouse in quite a while. I plan to re-read the entire FH Dune Chronicles again soon. I have all of them in paperback and a few in hardcover, and although I loathe the thought of giving any Herbert spawn anymore money, I think I'm going to buy the Kindle versions so I can highlight and annotate as I go and have those notes available to me on the web.

Frank's books are so much the complete antithesis of McDune, that every 3 yrs or so I can go back and read any of Frank's Dune books and they fell almost completely new because there are so many threads to follow, so much depth, and so many layers to process when reading.

Last year when I thought of finally seeing how bad Cunters & Sandturds really were, I decided to read the full Legends trilogy since I knew all that shit was only to setup "Dune 7". I had read Bunghole Jehad and some of Machine Crud before but never finished back when they first came out in Mass Market Paperback. So I figured I might as well re-read BJ and go straight through all 3 books. As a testament to how shitty BJ is, I found nothing new in my re-read. Nothing to make it any less trite, banal, and juvenile than before. It was hack work before and is still hack work. The COMPETE antithesis of Frank's works.

I'll have to see how I feel after I re-read all of Franks books to decide if I want to finish Machine Crud and slog through Battle of Cornhole before tackling Cunters & Sandturds. Money is on I won't bother :)
The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)

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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby SandRider » 04 Mar 2012 09:20

there's really no reason to .... if your curiosity about just how bad they are or what specific
contradictions the Hacks Twain put into the McDune is strong, there are many, many threads
like this one that list them all in detail ...
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how to fully interact with people.
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Re: Amp's SoD Notes

Postby SadisticCynic » 04 Mar 2012 09:22

SandRider wrote:there's really no reason to .... if your curiosity about just how bad they are or what specific
contradictions the Hacks Twain put into the McDune is strong, there are many, many threads
like this one that list them all in detail ...


...and with vastly superior prose, I might add.
Ah English, the language where pretty much any word can have any meaning! - A Thing of Eternity


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