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    True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

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    True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Slugger » 08 Dec 2011 19:03

    Forgive me if this has been posted before, but this fun thought struck me in class today. It's been a very long time since I read the Butlerian Jihad/Sadworms novels, but bear with my descriptions and reasoning.

    Omnius: fear of foldspace, leader (in title) of an empire
    Brian: fear of flying, "leader" of literary empire

    Erasmus: true leader of the machine empire, wants to experience human life
    theHack: true writer of the McDune books, wants to experience the recognition of the literary acclaim.

    Furthermore, we could speculate that Duncan Idaho represents Frank himself: appears (written) in all original Dune novels, is a significant influence in the story of the Duniverse. Thus, when Erasmus merges with the super-duper KH that Duncan becomes in a collection of paper that has Dune written on the cover, it's as those Keith has finally merged with Frank in terms of accomplishment or impact. He has "become" Frank in leading the Duniverse.

    Not sure where the bit about Erasmus being a cross-dresser fits into all this.... :/
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Crysknife » 08 Dec 2011 19:18

    I think Frank would laugh at the concept of a machine having the emotion of fear, or much of any emotions.

    Don't have much to comment on the rest of your post. 2 demensional characters for 2 demensional people with dementia. :wink:
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Nekhrun » 08 Dec 2011 21:42

    This isn't the first time it's been suggested that McDune is autobiographical:
    viewtopic.php?p=78546#p78546

    Makes sense that we would hate the characters and those who write them; they're one in the same.
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Freakzilla » 08 Dec 2011 22:05

    I guess if you can't create something original you're just left with yourself.
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby SandRider » 08 Dec 2011 22:42

    wait ... wait ...
    back the FUCK up:


    when Erasmus merges with the super-duper KH that Duncan becomes


    is that what really happened in Waterworms?
    you know, the McDune 7.5 that I never came close
    to reading, or paying much attention to when it was
    discussed here ?

    really ?
    I mean, I got that the Duncan somehow became the "Ultra-Queeffart Paddywhack" or whatever
    and then it turned out that Norma was God, but I missed the tidbit about the robot "merging" ....

    on one hand, I'm shocked & appalled, on the other hand ... well, I gots a rock glass of Weller's
    in that hand, so I'm guessing Keith can go poke himself in the asshole with a sharp stick ... again ...

    (and again ... and again ...)
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Nekhrun » 08 Dec 2011 23:01

    SandRider wrote:wait ... wait ...
    back the FUCK up:


    when Erasmus merges with the super-duper KH that Duncan becomes


    is that what really happened in Waterworms?
    you know, the McDune 7.5 that I never came close
    to reading, or paying much attention to when it was
    discussed here ?

    Yep. It happened.
    "If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Freakzilla » 08 Dec 2011 23:04

    Nekhrun wrote:
    SandRider wrote:wait ... wait ...
    back the FUCK up:


    when Erasmus merges with the super-duper KH that Duncan becomes


    is that what really happened in Waterworms?
    you know, the McDune 7.5 that I never came close
    to reading, or paying much attention to when it was
    discussed here ?

    Yep. It happened.


    :ducks:
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 08 Dec 2011 23:57

    SandRider wrote:I mean, I got that the Duncan somehow became the "Ultra-Queeffart Paddywhack" or whatever ...


    Yes. That's *exactly* what he became. :D

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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Omphalos » 09 Dec 2011 00:04

    Nekhrun wrote:This isn't the first time it's been suggested that McDune is autobiographical:
    viewtopic.php?p=78546#p78546

    Makes sense that we would hate the characters and those who write them; they're one in the same.


    If you believe Bobo in Dreamer everything FH ever wrote was autobiographical.

    Review coming shortly.
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Nekhrun » 09 Dec 2011 00:12

    Omphalos wrote:
    Nekhrun wrote:This isn't the first time it's been suggested that McDune is autobiographical:
    viewtopic.php?p=78546#p78546

    Makes sense that we would hate the characters and those who write them; they're one in the same.


    If you believe Bobo in Dreamer everything FH ever wrote was autobiographical.

    Review coming shortly.

    Then that was a shitty lesson to leave his son who would go on to do nothing of consequence. Frank did cool shit so he wrote cool stories; Bobo Neckbolts is a pathetic loser with daddy issues so he teamed up with a dicta-hiking hack who only pretends to have "adventures" so they could write about their own boring selves.
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby SandChigger » 09 Dec 2011 09:26

    I'm completely cool with the idea that Frank Herbert was a shitty father.

    I can even live with the suggestion that he may have been a shitty person.

    I mean, look at the family he left behind: somebody fucked up somewhere.

    I guess the moral is: You can be a shitty person IF YOU WRITE GOOD BOOKS.

    Neither KJA nor Brian are even in the right ballpark.
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Crysknife » 09 Dec 2011 13:29

    SandChigger wrote:I'm completely cool with the idea that Frank Herbert was a shitty father.

    I can even live with the suggestion that he may have been a shitty person.

    I mean, look at the family he left behind: somebody fucked up somewhere.

    I guess the moral is: You can be a shitty person IF YOU WRITE GOOD BOOKS.

    Neither KJA nor Brian are even in the right ballpark.


    :clap:

    And to leave your family with a legacy like Dune......They need to get over it. So Frank was a bit of a bastard, who the hell isn't?
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 09 Dec 2011 16:28

    Yup, even OSC is all good as an author to me, dispite being a real piece of work as a human being.

    The issue with KJA is that he's BOTH a loser and a horrible writer.
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Apjak » 09 Dec 2011 17:01

    a short list of Great Men who were less than great when it came to being fathers.

    Ben Franklin
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    Woody Allen
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    Marcus Aurelius
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    The Great Santini
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Nekhrun » 09 Dec 2011 17:20

    Also God. He let Jesus get messed up.
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 09 Dec 2011 18:29

    Nekhrun wrote:Also God. He let Jesus get messed up.

    :lol:
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby SandChigger » 10 Dec 2011 11:42

    Nekhrun wrote:Also God. He let Jesus get messed up.

    Well, that's just because he's always been into child sacrifice and the abuse of children.

    Where do you think the Catholics get it from?
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Freakzilla » 10 Dec 2011 11:55

    Or Joseph, for letting his virgin wife sleep with aliens. :wink:
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Omphalos » 10 Dec 2011 20:00

    My son and I were at lunch today with my family. He and I were speaking to each other and he brought up the topic of sacraments. He said that marriage was one of the sacraments a person could choose, then asked me what the other one was. I told him it was cannibalism. He laughed, but when that got back to my wife the laughter stopped. That'll teach him to blab.
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby SandChigger » 11 Dec 2011 07:58

    :lol:

    I caught part of an early X Files episode this afternoon, the one about the cannibals in the town with the chicken processing plant. Mulder made a comparison between vampirism and certain cannibalistic rituals meant to ensure eternal life and included communion among the latter. Reminded me of that vampire flick a few years back where Judas was portrayed as the first vampire, thus explaining the aversion to crosses and silver; can't recall the title offhand (again).

    But yeah, the major sacrament of the religion is a reenactment of symbolic cannibalism. How screwed up is that?

    Merry Christmas! :lol:
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby Freakzilla » 11 Dec 2011 10:33

    Is it really cannibalism if Jesus was a zombie? He's just trying to infect others. :wink:
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby D Pope » 12 Dec 2011 22:41

    Brian wrote:Herbert continued, "I usually write the first draft of the Erasmus character. Kevin came up with a character -- a Thinking Machine who was researching what it was like to be human -- and I said let's add (the Nazi medical researcher) Dr Mengele to him and make him really dark and strange. Then Kevin laughed and said, 'Boy Brian, I don't know if I can write that, you'd better do it!' He wasn't saying that couldn't write it -- it was just a little dig that only my twisted mind could write that character. So we have a lot of fun. We riff off each other, like a musical performance."

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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby SandChigger » 13 Dec 2011 11:54

    D Pope wrote:Am I taking this topic too literally?

    Yes.

    Where he says "riff", for instance, he really means "suck". 8-)

    Freakzilla wrote:Is it really cannibalism if Jesus was a zombie? He's just trying to infect others. :wink:

    "I want you to drink my blood, belah belah belah!" :shock:

    Yeah... real zombies want to eat your flesh; Zombie Jew wants YOU to eat HIS.

    So in addition to being a failure as a Jewish prophet, he also fails as a zombie vampire.

    That's a MASSIVE FAIL in my book. :lol:
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby lotek » 13 Dec 2011 12:20

    D Pope wrote:
    Brian wrote:Herbert continued, "I usually write the first draft of the Erasmus character. Kevin came up with a character -- a Thinking Machine who was researching what it was like to be human -- and I said let's add (the Nazi medical researcher) Dr Mengele to him and make him really dark and strange. Then Kevin laughed and said, 'Boy Brian, I don't know if I can write that, you'd better do it!' He wasn't saying that couldn't write it -- it was just a little dig that only my twisted mind could write that character. So we have a lot of fun. We riff off each other, like a musical performance."

    http://www.sfsite.com/07a/sabh203.htm
    Am I taking this topic too literally?


    I remember the riff business, I think he meant chaff.
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    Re: True origins of Erasmus and Omnius

    Postby SadisticCynic » 13 Dec 2011 14:40

    And I think you mean 'chafe'. :wink:
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