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    Need Help/Citation re:Dune Canon as In-Universe Text

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    Need Help/Citation re:Dune Canon as In-Universe Text

    Postby Cro-Mags » 04 Jun 2011 09:22

    (maybe some spoilers below if you care)

    So I got into it the other day with a Dune-lite fan.

    Here's the thing - I'm not touching those interbetweenquels with a ten foot pole.

    But this douche won't believe that KJA retconned Dune canon by writing everything off as being in-universe texts.
    Can someone cite that passage for me? I'd really appreciate it.

    I didn't want to ruin Dune 7 for him (wanted KJA to do it all on his own). I gave this guy credit that once they revealed Daniel and Marty to be Erasmus and and Omnius, that he'd have enough brains to put two and two together and realize that it's just KJA tying things back into his own novels and nothing at all to do with Frank's notes. How could it? These were characters completely of KJA and BH's making. It's so transparent!
    He actually liked the idea that the world would "begin and end with a jihad"? Like there weren't more in between?

    I'm not touching those new books, and really have no desire to revisit the spin-offs I've already read.
    Can anybody lend a hand?


    I've just never met anyone who didn't, at some point say "enough is enough" with these spin-offs. I can't see any metric by which they stack up. Except for some shared terminology and characters, they're night and day.

    Any help is appreciated.
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    Re: Need Help/Citation re:Dune Canon as In-Universe Text

    Postby DuneFishUK » 04 Jun 2011 10:33

    KJA has never spelt it out but Chigger's blog had a post with an email from Keith that comes pretty close. Here - http://chiggerblog.hairyticksofdune.net/blog/?p=241

    There's a good quote where he says that Paul of Dune is "is about the inaccuracies and liberties taken in Irulan’s purported histories of Muad’Dib." and then he sent most of the chapter at the end of the first section of PoD where Irulan and Paul set the scene for the silliness of the planet-hopping Young Paul adventure in the second section.
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    Re: Need Help/Citation re:Dune Canon as In-Universe Text

    Postby SandChigger » 04 Jun 2011 10:50

    DuneFishUK has already pointed you to the email exchange on my blog where KJA essentially makes it clear what they're up to. (He's even nice enough to give the page numbers for the passage in question in the original US hardcover!)

    So, the long and short of it is that in Paul of Dune, The Life of Muad'Dib is the code name (in-universe title) for Frank Herbert's Dune.

    Because the "Heroes" tetralogy was cut off midway through, we still don't know who would have ended up being the in-universe authors of the books after Irulan is out of the picture. My money is on Gaus Andaud as the writer (or, at least, compiler?) of the books from God Emperor on. ;)

    (I also believe one aspect of this for KJA is making The Author a more important part of the story. For obvious reasons. :roll: )
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Re: Need Help/Citation re:Dune Canon as In-Universe Text

    Postby Cro-Mags » 04 Jun 2011 18:18

    Thanks for the response guys, and sparing me from having to delve into those books.

    That was an insightful exchange.
    Wow, I can't believe you were actually on speaking terms with KJA at one point Chigger.
    びくりした。
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    Re: Need Help/Citation re:Dune Canon as In-Universe Text

    Postby Ampoliros » 04 Jun 2011 18:23

    No one is ever on speaking terms with KJA, you're either gagging on his...ego, or trying to shove his books somewhere dark.

    I'd love to talk to Brian about his dad, but that's rather impossible with KJA in the picture.
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    Re: Need Help/Citation re:Dune Canon as In-Universe Text

    Postby SandChigger » 05 Jun 2011 01:54

    Cro-Mags wrote:Wow, I can't believe you were actually on speaking terms with KJA at one point Chigger.
    びくりした。

    If you haven't seen this yet, here's the entire corpse (or corpus) of our email exchanges:

    http://www.hairyticksofdune.net/topix/infidel.html

    There was also some back and forth in the comments of his MySpace blog, but I imagine a lot of it has been deleted or lost.

    It's actually not too hard to engage him (in the sense of getting a response from him, on Twitter, for example). It's the carrying on of an intelligent conversation AFTER that which is the problem. ;)
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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