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    SandRider's Opus 1

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    SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby Ampoliros » 19 May 2011 00:53

    I figured I'd post this here since I just discovered it, and I think it's a prime example of the finest of OH works/arguments/attitude etc. I label it SandRiders' Opus 1 (not that its the first or last gem to tumble from him) This was from a review discussion on Amazon for Smellhole.

    I, along with others of my "ilk", have fallen into the convention over the years of referring to Herbert the Lesser
    as "wet-brained", a "zombie", and etc. ... for quite awhile, there was a amusing running joke about Brian wearing
    adult diapers on the book-signing tours, and soiling himself at the podium; this stemmed from one photo of the
    two of them where this is EXACTLY what their facial expressions looked liked {"Kevvie, I made doody in my pants
    again." - "Wha ?? Aww, g-dd-mn-t, Brian! ... Folks, we'll be right back ..."}

    this impression was formed from the early interviews when both of them would actually sit down in a room together
    for some kid with a homebrewed website and actually talk about the McDune, before Keith just started sending out
    copy-pasta email answers to these "interviews" ... Brian does seem subdued, not very alert, looking to Keith to answer
    the questions first, like a beat-down dog afraid to say or do the wrong thing ... and back then, Keith was making an
    effort to at least give lip-service to Frank, his Legacy, the actual continuation of "Dune" ....

    that dynamic changed somewhat after the wholesale rejection of their version of "Dune7"; they were not prepared for
    the backlash from average fans of Frank's Dune, the lackluster sales, the flat-out dismissal of the two books (claimed
    to have be based on Frank's Own Outline) by actual professional reviewers ... nevermind the reaction of the "talifans",
    the Orthodox Herbertarians, and other Dune-geeks who considered McDune7 not only to be an ugly little piece of bad
    fan-fiction, but also an *abomination*, a literary crime, and the claim that the books were based on this super-secret
    guarded "Outline" simply *reprehensible*, seeing as it was an obvious lie ...

    after that, and the aborted "trilogy" of "interquels", stuffing inconsistent, even contradictory, plot elements *in between*
    Frank's Dune books, Keith became more combative, defensive ... not even bothering to dismiss criticism or even ignoring
    it, but flat-out *denying its existence*, and entered this strange self-made fantasy-world where PAUL OF DUNE and JESSICA
    TO THE WINDS OF DUNE were hugely successful, in terms of sales and reader approval ... and on the promo-tour for
    WINDS, he began to drop little snarky asides about Brian, on his blagh and twits (which Brian, being a-skeered of the
    innertubes, would never see) that appeared to be attempting to be a subtle shifting of blame for any (perceived) lack
    of quality of the book onto Brian ... smug and condescending little comments, along the lines of "Brian has a hard time
    functioning in the world, isn't a brave little man for trying?", also silently implying "Look at what I have to work with ..."

    and every now and then, Brian seemed to wake up, become almost lucid, and I myself saw the look in his eyes of the
    gentle lap-dog and beloved family pet about to have had enough, and start biting folks on the a$$.

    (to wrap-up this tl;dr aside: what we do not know is if the decision to stop the "Heroes of Dune" "Interquel" "Trilogy"
    {and goodl-rd, it is so difficult to write about Keith without putting almost everything in "quotes": "writer", "book",
    "plot", "characters"; or parens: "((less-than)minor) award-nominated (never-awarded)", "best-selling (based on
    antiquated numerical standards, also being the *total* number of copies printed, making no distinction between
    copies actually sold, returned, cover-stripped, tossed in the dumpster after failing in the bargain-bin for $2, &etc.)"}
    was TOR's, looking at the sales of "Heroes" vs the "Prequels" (not taking into consideration, of course, the steady
    decline of what little quality there was at the beginning, and the growing wider knowledge among average readers
    of the Hackiness of Keith in general), or, as Keith has spun, Brian wanting to return to the "Butlerian Jihad" era,
    which, if anyone is to be believed anymore, was the project Brian had possibly had discussions with Frank about;
    altho, that conversation could've been on Frank's deathbed and went something like "Hey, Dad, all that men-with-
    machines war stuff, that sounds cool. Maybe me and you could do something about that ..." - "Yeah, sure, kid,
    whatever ...")

    But the main damning fact against Herbert the Lesser having any higher brain functions was not necessarily
    the original choice of Keith to re-animate the Dune ghola, altho the story that Brian himself has spun that he
    in fact did read some of Keith's previous "work" (what? the Star Wars?) and still went with him is awful troubling,
    the reason we all figured he was a zombie was that he CONTINUED let Keith molest Dune ... and occasionally
    appear in some type of controlled public arena to defend what had been produced ...

    then Keith discovered the twitting-thing, and suddenly we were privy to his every move every day ...
    and it became clear that his "production" schedule far-outstripped Brian's ability ... adding up some
    of the numbers, dates, and figures of the various stages of the McDune assembly-line shows fairly
    obviously that Brian really just *couldn't* be contributing much to the actual "writing" ...

    so the only point I wanted to make here is simply this:
    after looking back over all the "evidence", over ten year's worth now of on-line and archived
    nonsense, my opinion is this: Brian Herbert is not a brain-dead zombie, but in fact a reasonably intelligent man ...
    with a NUMBER of caveats ....

    I think some of his father's traits of thinking deep and far afield, of seeing larger patterns in smaller incidents, of
    applying true philosophical thinking to situations or events were transferred to some degree ... it might have been
    during the later years, during the "reconciliation" period ... Brian might not have been doing so many drugs then,
    have been older and a little more experienced, had gotten over the juvenile anger and rejection of everything that
    was his father ... grew up a little and realized ..."Dang ... my old man's purty dang smart."

    but this was just a surface phenomena ... Brian lacked the basic raw intelligence and disciplined academic background
    to fully develop this trait ... also, and this is the main point, what he CERTAINLY lacked then, and now, is the ability
    to coherently translate those thoughts & ideas into words ... either verbally or in prose ... in short, he can think of
    some of these things, but he cannot express them ... and certainly cannot write them down ...

    I think there is a lot of evidence of this in some of the audio and video interviews ... altho painful to listen to, esp.
    if Keith is always jumping in with blathering nonsense, if you give it the effort, you can sometimes almost grasp
    what Brian is trying to say ... you can tell there is SOMETHING there in his words, something real and important,
    possible valuable, but he has such a fumbling, hesitant manner of expression, the message simply gets lost ....

    and Keith certainly doesn't have the patience in a promo-interview to allow Brian to find the right words, or the
    compassionate intelligence to help him out, this isn't a college-dorm bull-session, we're here to make money,
    and will jump in an finish Brian's half-formed thought with copy-pasta and Brian will seem confused for a moment,
    knowing that what Keith said is not at all what he was driving at, but agreeing anyway ... resigning ... nodding his
    head ... "Well ...sure" ... which gives Keith the opening to take back the conversation and turn it towards himself,
    or the safe, non-philosophical topics of book sales and deadlines and all the "writer's seminar" talking points ...

    and at that point, you can see Brian's eyes glaze over and he is lost in thought, confused and struggling to finish
    in his own mind whatever point he had been trying to make, not listening or caring about what Keith is saying
    about "writing as a business" ....

    both of these men are socially-inept, in different ways;
    Keith is falsely modest and co-operative; he gives the appearance of "working with" Brian, but, before whatever
    happened on the WINDS promo-tour, anyway, bullies Brian into nodding and saying "Well ...sure."

    and Brian may in fact be a coward of sorts, to allow all this, ALL of it, the stupid story-lines and publication
    schedule and so on, but he also may just not be able to express his actual opinion forcefully enough to
    break thru the ego-shield of tehKJA ...

    also then, to the three Anderclones who are the only actual members of tehKJA's Special Fans,
    (Conway, David James, & Prester (altho it's about time you other two know that "prester dilly" is
    and has always been, an OH sockpuppet)) ---- THIS is my "issue" with Keith ... Brian Herbert was
    obviously not in possession of the talent necessary to *produce* new Dune books, or to *produce*
    a reasonable "Dune7" (with or without any "Outline"); he MAY have possessed some of the type of
    thinking that would have been required, but could not have translated that to acceptable prose
    on his own ... an actual "writer", a TRUE "collaborator", would have been able to help Brian flesh
    out his ideas, helped to integrate them into the CANON of Frank's Dune, and been the key player
    in the PRODUCTION of new Dune books ...

    all Keith brought to the table was the *PRODUCTION* part ... yes, Lord, that man, he know how to churn'em out !!
    Keith was already very experienced in the machinations of "publishing" and obviously adept at marketing (to certain
    segments of bottom-dwelling juvenile-adult tripe-swallowers that infest the basement of "sci-fi" fandom, keeping
    the actual adults upstairs awake at night with the banging of plastic light-sabers on Darth Vader helmets
    and shouting "pew-pew-pew" til 4am)

    so all the *sweet tehKJA-hatin'* actually just began as pointing out, in calm, rational detail, just how POOR a
    "writer" Keith is ... that's all ... "My gawd, this McDune is just horrible !! How could it be so bad ??"
    & we'd point to hundreds and hundreds of examples of his hack-work, basically saying "No, that's just Keith."

    it was when Keith moved the "Dune Blog" from the dead and stinking Official Corporate Dune Forum to
    his own blahg and started posting more and more personal things that we began to publicly comment on
    (and link to) the unbelievable examples of Keith's social awkwardness, his petty attitudes and snarky asides,
    his miserly b-tching (strange for a "successful" "best-selling" "author"); his tone-deafness at his own words ...

    then, thank the little baby jesus, he jumped on the twit-train (four or five years after it left the station, too)
    and we got these little gems EVERY DAY ... and the FAIL was irresistible ... (how I can still chuckle at the
    snide, horrible little thing he twitted about his own "editors" at TOR ... as if those people don't know what
    the internet is ... and the petty mindlessness, the lack of impulse control, the lack of ANY kind of thought
    about the wisdom of posting such a thing .... or, even better ... can anyone EVER forget the mental image
    he gave us of loofah-ing his wife's stretch marks in the bathtub ?)(priceless, I say, and you just can't MAKE
    UP any better parodies or mockings of tehKJA than he will provide himself ..)

    so yes, the Jihad on Keith has crossed the boundaries, for many of "us", of the McDune issue ...
    altho, this "Hellhole" thing is very much fair-game in that arena, too ... this is an "Anderson & the Other Guy, authors
    of the McDune" product, and the product smells exactly like McDune, and is an example of the fact that even when
    attempting to create a "new universe" and a "new epic", independent from the McDune franchise, the main ingredient
    is still Massive Fail ...

    but despite you two clown's continuation of the Jedi Mind Tricks (*Pay no attention to the haters; they are haters
    and jealous*)(waving chubby-fingered hands in the faces of non-existent "average readers" on these pages)
    the legions of the OH are extremely, painfully honest, and truthful ... this is mostly due to the fact that all of the
    OH are internet-experienced ... they know you can't go spouting off half-cocked nonsense and not have it quoted
    back to you with links ... and you can delete that nonsense if you want to, but they'll toss back the linky to the archives ...

    Ron Craig has NEVER, to my knowledge, stated he is any kind of objective about tehKJA ... certainly not at this point,
    with all the polluted water that has flown under this bridge ... he will take any and every opportunity presented to
    mock Keith, which, as I've pointed out, Keith himself provides on a daily basis ...

    when it comes to this issue, and you clowns need to learn how to compartmentalize your internet-persona surfing,
    Craig takes great delight and enjoys much amusement at jabbing people with pointed sticks to hear them squeal ...
    as do I ... this form of internet-entertainment has been a wonderful addition to my life ... and you can type "troll,
    trolling troll, you troll !!" until your fingers fall off ... neither of us have ever claimed to be anything other than
    innerwebz meanies, the bullies of the cyberplayground, pushing the fat kids down, kicking them in the butt,
    sending them home crying to momma ...

    this "fight" comes down to this : Kevin J. Anderson is a product-generating machine of the lowest quality at the moment;
    I would be hard pressed to find an example of a less-talented hack churning out product for a nominally legitimate publishing
    house; the fail that was McDune is not even debatable anymore, we done moved on; Kevin J. Anderson, personally, is a
    horrible, petty, disgusting, fraudulent human being, with delusions of grandeur that would make Hitler giggle ....

    if any person, any person at all, actually comes into the net-space with a positive opinion of Kevin J. Anderson's work,
    or of him personally, I am going to just assume you are an LCD-drag-on-the-species, and mock you ...

    it's just that simple ...


    :clap: :clap:
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby Raspudding » 19 May 2011 03:55

    It's sad what they did to Frank's legacy.
    “Your birth is a mistake you'll spend your whole life trying to correct.” -Chuck Palahniuk
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby SandRider » 19 May 2011 04:31

    huh. I don't remember any of that at all ...


    (coulda posted it in my tl:dr thread, too ....)
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby SandRider » 19 May 2011 04:41

    oo, shit, which reminds me ... there's a new book out by a "serious journalist" on Area 51 .... the "new" story from an
    "anonymous" source who "lived and worked on Area 51 for years" is so fucking clever, I'm surprised I didn't make it up ...

    there was a "flying saucer" crash in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 - it was an operational Nazi Flying Saucer piloted
    by midgets (cause the thing was so small, see) - Stalin sent it flying over US airspace to scare the Army Air Corp because
    they hadn't yet successfully tested their bomb ... whether it crashed accidentally or intentionally I don't know yet -
    it won't be long before the story on the internet is that Stalin's Flying Saucer was shot down by a squadron of P-51 Mustangs ....

    it's a great fucking story, tho, fits right in there with the overall saga (& see the4 tl:dr thread for the repost of
    all that, if you don't know what I'm talking about; the original post was in the thread about the accidental launch of the
    missile from the US Navy sub, when-ever the fuck that was ...)
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
    how to fully interact with people.
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby SandChigger » 19 May 2011 16:51

    :lol:

    Is there still discussion going on over SMALLHOLE? I haven't even checked for a few days.... :whistle:

    (Hey, 'Rider, remember Photoscribe/Stephen Turner? He's popped up on Amazon again, spouting 50-11 varieties of batshit. I think you really unnerved and unmanned him last time with the pedophilia shit. He's already thrown "litigation target" at me, so I asked him if he needed an address for his lawyer. He hasn't mentioned it again since. :roll: Totally batshit fucking loony. He's making Marilyn look sane and intelligent this go round. :shock: )
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby SandRider » 23 Apr 2012 23:01

    first off, I must state that categorically, "No, I donot remember posting this"
    either here or @amazon ...this is NOT a denial, merely a statement of fact; as well, I donot
    recall whatever the fuck it was that the SandChigger alluded to in the follow-ups .....

    what has struck me NOW, was that while I recognize the arguments and statements presented here,
    and I surely recognize the style, and while it was but LESS THAN A YEAR AGO, I must admit
    that I could not, today, re-create such prose .... the past year, if only the past half-year, has fucking
    ROBBED me of my former potential ... as did my Youth, and my Young-adulthood, &etc. ....

    I am certain I have but a few brief years of crucial import remaining, and I ask you, brothers:
    what would you have me tell you .... ??


    ?

    ??

    ? ....
    Last edited by SandRider on 23 Apr 2012 23:27, edited 1 time in total.
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby Freakzilla » 23 Apr 2012 23:03

    Listen... do you smell something?
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby SandRider » 23 Apr 2012 23:26

    Christ-almighty, I'm on my deathbed here, and you would
    quote Ghostbusters @me ???



    well played, Freakzilla .... well played ...
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby Freakzilla » 24 Apr 2012 07:22

    Ghostbusters is highly underated.
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    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby lotek » 24 Apr 2012 07:28

    I think it's awesome.
    I'm afraid of no ghosts.
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby gurensan » 24 Apr 2012 16:55

    "I ain't afraid o' no ghosts."

    Edit: not a geek recall, but a musical foray into flexing my immensely minuscule recollective powers.
    If you fart in the wilderness, and a bear eats you before you can smell it, does it matter if it makes an odor?
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby Omphalos » 24 Apr 2012 18:46

    gurensan wrote:"I ain't afraid o' no ghosts."

    Edit: not a geek recall, but a musical foray into flexing my immensely minuscule recollective powers.


    The way Lotek wrote is how it appeared in the original French version.
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby gurensan » 25 Apr 2012 19:27

    Omphalos wrote:
    gurensan wrote:"I ain't afraid o' no ghosts."

    Edit: not a geek recall, but a musical foray into flexing my immensely minuscule recollective powers.


    The way Lotek wrote is how it appeared in the original French version.


    The French version of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvkKX035484?

    Wasn't aware there was anything French about it.
    I could just be a popculturetard.

    But then I'm not French.
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby Omphalos » 25 Apr 2012 19:51

    gurensan wrote:
    Omphalos wrote:
    gurensan wrote:"I ain't afraid o' no ghosts."

    Edit: not a geek recall, but a musical foray into flexing my immensely minuscule recollective powers.


    The way Lotek wrote is how it appeared in the original French version.


    The French version of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvkKX035484?

    Wasn't aware there was anything French about it.
    I could just be a popculturetard.

    But then I'm not French.


    Thats OK, because I'm not correct.
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby Nekhrun » 25 Apr 2012 20:04

    Careful guys, if Nebby catches wind of us talking about this song we're facing another YouTube rant about double negatives in American pop culture.
    "If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby lotek » 26 Apr 2012 05:34

    I ain't not so sure about that
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby gurensan » 26 Apr 2012 13:36

    /me facepalms and forgets.
    If you fart in the wilderness, and a bear eats you before you can smell it, does it matter if it makes an odor?
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby Freakzilla » 26 Apr 2012 13:41

    :doh:
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby SandRider » 26 Apr 2012 20:29

    well, I ain't so sure he don't almost understand the deployment
    of the double-negative, so technically, his post might not
    be possibly incorrect, unless I thought I didn't misunderstand
    what he was saying ....
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby D Pope » 26 Apr 2012 21:05

    SandRider wrote:...what has struck me NOW, was that while I recognize the arguments and statements presented here,
    and I surely recognize the style, and while it was but LESS THAN A YEAR AGO, I must admit
    that I could not, today, re-create such prose .... the past year, if only the past half-year, has fucking
    ROBBED me of my former potential ... as did my Youth, and my Young-adulthood, &etc. ....

    I disagree, mate. You may not feel it but I have no doubt that when the passion and inspiration command,
    we will get another Great Text of the Rider.

    ps Still waiting for the important announcement of great import!
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby Nebiros » 26 Apr 2012 21:58

    Nekhrun wrote:Careful guys, if Nebby catches wind of us talking about this song we're facing another YouTube rant about double negatives in American pop culture.


    Thanks for the memo to make that particular rant. I'm sure the 'careful' part was sarcasm.

    I will do that video but a few more political videos still to make.
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby Freakzilla » 26 Apr 2012 22:00

    All you have to do is say his name...
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby lotek » 27 Apr 2012 05:20

    Freakzilla wrote::doh:

    gurensan wrote:/me facepalms and forgets.


    mission not unaccomplished !

    SandRider wrote:well, I ain't so sure he don't almost understand the deployment
    of the double-negative, so technically, his post might not
    be possibly incorrect, unless I thought I didn't misunderstand
    what he was saying ....


    Ain't I glad you most likely do not get the opposite of what my point might have been !
    Spice is the worm's gonads.
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    Re: SandRider's Opus 1

    Postby gurensan » 28 Apr 2012 18:07

    lotek wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote::doh:

    gurensan wrote:/me facepalms and forgets.


    mission not unaccomplished !


    What? I'm sorry, I... uh.
    If you fart in the wilderness, and a bear eats you before you can smell it, does it matter if it makes an odor?
    gurensan
     
    Posts: 96
    Joined: 21 Apr 2012 19:26


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