Analyze BH & KJA

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Analyze BH & KJA

Postby JustSomeGuy » 28 Feb 2011 01:26

I read elsewhere on this site that this is not an anti-KJA/BH forum. Alright. ¿You know what, though? It wasn't a love of Frank Herbert's writing that brought me here. What brought me here is a feeling of antipathy towards Kevin "Master of Universes" Anderson and Brian "The Zombie" Herbert.

¿Why should I feel this way towards two people whom I have never met, whom I will never meet?

I posted something on another site (Hairy Ticks of Dune) which may help you understand how I feel and why I am now taking the time to write this.


Pleased says:
February 20, 2011 at 7:57 pm
I came upon your site while trying to find out why The Ascension Factor is not nearly as good a book as all the others in that series- ¿did Frank Herbert get into the actual writing? It’s been a disappointing read so far. Upsetting, really. Kind of like (but nowhere near as bad as) the time I read Dune: House Atreides.
¡Man, I remember seeing that book for the very first time! I felt so excited… it’s difficult to describe just how I felt. I felt like, “This book doesn’t have to be great; I will enjoy it.” I felt good. I felt really good. It was a joyous occasion. Something like that.
I read the book.
You know, there are things in life that you can never take back, things that stay with you and haunt you, twist you with regret… ¿Why did I have to read that book? ¿Why did I think the second book would be any different? I remember throwing it down in disgust and thinking, “¡Never again!” ¿Why then, did I attempt to read Hunters of Dune? So stupid…
¿How could anyone like those awful, horrible books? ¿What’s wrong with people? ¿Why do they keep writing them? ¿Can’t they see they’re no good? ¿¡How can they not see!?
I could go on and on, but ¿what’s the point? They’ll keep writing their shitty books and people will keep reading them.


Well, there you go. A little over the top, maybe, but it was from the heart.

I can understand Zombie's desire to carry on his father's work, but ¿why couldn't he have gone at it alone? He had the rest of his life to come up with something on his own. I'm sure (actually, I'm not so sure) he could have come up with something in that time. Something praiseworthy.

¿Why get Mr. Anderson involved? ¿Why, of all people, was he chosen?

I would like to hear your thoughts on who these two men are and why...
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby SandRider » 28 Feb 2011 01:44

what the fuck's up with all the mexican punctuation ?
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby SandChigger » 28 Feb 2011 02:54

JustSomeGuy wrote:I posted something on another site (Hairy Ticks of Dune) which may help you understand how I feel and why I am now taking the time to write this.

Pleased says: ...

Ah, OK, from last week. I remember you. :)

(I'm not bothered by but am also curious about the Spanish punctuation... ??? :lol: )

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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby D Pope » 28 Feb 2011 10:13

JustSomeGuy wrote:Well, there you go. A little over the top, maybe, but it was from the heart.

I wouldn't call that 'over the top,' more like 'painfully familiar.' If you browse the Introduce Yourself section you'll see your story over and over.
JustSomeGuy wrote:I can understand Zombie's desire to carry on his father's work, but ¿why couldn't he have gone at it alone? He had the rest of his life to come up with something on his own. I'm sure (actually, I'm not so sure) he could have come up with something in that time. Something praiseworthy.
¿Why get Mr. Anderson involved? ¿Why, of all people, was he chosen?
I would like to hear your thoughts on who these two men are and why...

There are two main theories so far, I call them Evil Mastermind and Charismatic Kevin. Common elements are greed, friday car syndrome, and, "It's ours, we can do what we want." ( FCS is a brand new car that's been back to the shop eight times because it was made on a friday when everyone just wanted to go home, so the whole job is half assed in order to make the deadline.)

Evil Mastermind is the idea that Brian hates his dad and chose kevin as the clown that'll tear down the masterpiece.

Charismatic Kevin proposes that kevies bloated ego so impressed the weak minded and pickeled intellect of Brian that the HPL had no choice but to let the hack try to fill the family sandbox.
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby Ampoliros » 28 Feb 2011 11:46

More like Kevin the Hacky Leech theory. He didn't need charisma when he could tell Brian "Not only is this my proposal, but I've already 'written' half the book already and can have a publishable version in 2 more weeks! You just sign off on the script, get your name on the cover for the Herbert sell, I'll put my TM "and Kevin J Anderson" next to it and badda-boom badda-bing! INSTANT BESTSELLER! Heck, we pitch this right to a sucker publisher company and we're set! Then I'll get the Hugo I so deserve MUAHAHAHAHHAHA! Hey, can I borrow a copy of Dune? I need to read the actual book first just in case I get asked about it."

There is no doubt in my mind that KJA actively sought this project. He lives by attaching his name to other successes and sucking them dry.
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby TheDukester » 28 Feb 2011 12:13

I lean toward Persuasive Kevin, Spineless Bobo, and Unfortunate Timing.

I think Kevin can really turn on the charm when he wants something badly enough. So he combined this at just the right time with Bobo's inability to think for himself/act like a man/respect his father's work, and — boom! — the seeds for McDune were planted.

Among the timing aspects we've never really touched on here was Bobo's advancing years and likely lack of a source of income. I'd go so far as to speculate that he'd not done much to set up any sort of retirement fund or to make plans for not cleaning hotel rooms for the rest of his miserable life.

Then along comes a notorious speed-writer who can promise him a fat, reliable, annual paycheck with no effort needed. Problem solved, from Bobo's point of view. All that's required is to let go of that last remaining shred of dignity ...
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 28 Feb 2011 15:23

I actually think Bill Ransom did an excellent job on Ascension Factor, near perfect. It paled in comparison to TJI of course, but I thought it was on par with Lazarus. We can agree to dissagree on that though, welcome to the forum, and yes, KJA is bloody terrible.
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby SadisticCynic » 28 Feb 2011 15:46

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I actually think Bill Ransom did an excellent job on Ascension Factor, near perfect. It paled in comparison to TJI of course, but I thought it was on par with Lazarus. We can agree to dissagree on that though, welcome to the forum, and yes, KJA is bloody terrible.


I guess that's why Ascension Factor is a little disappointing.
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 28 Feb 2011 17:17

SadisticCynic wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:I actually think Bill Ransom did an excellent job on Ascension Factor, near perfect. It paled in comparison to TJI of course, but I thought it was on par with Lazarus. We can agree to dissagree on that though, welcome to the forum, and yes, KJA is bloody terrible.


I guess that's why Ascension Factor is a little disappointing.


In that situation though most people would say something about LE also being dissapointing, this fellow is saying that AF was dissapointing because the quality was poorer without FH contributing. I dissagree, I don't think the book's writing quality suffered much from FH being gone, I think Ransom did an excellent job on it.

I only say they pale in comparison to TJI because TJI was near-Dune quality.
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby Nekhrun » 28 Feb 2011 17:32

For those of you who are new here. Here are some threads in which there is some BH & KJA Analysis:

viewtopic.php?p=27795#p27795
viewtopic.php?p=47224#p47224
viewtopic.php?p=78546#p78546

I'm sure there are more floating around as well.

Enjoy
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby JustSomeGuy » 01 Mar 2011 03:29

SandRider: ¿ what the fuck's up with all the mexican punctuation ?

SandChigger: I'm glad you didn't mind, although I can see why other people might. The whole Spanish punctuation thing is something I picked up from my
parents, and maybe I shouldn't use it amongst English speakers- ¡but I just can't help myself!

D Pope, Ampoliros: I hope the Evil Mastermind Theory is just that, a theory. The Charismatic Kevin Theory is more believable, to me at least.

A Thing of Eternity, SadisticCynic: I can't really say that The Ascension Factor is a bad book. It just isn't what I was Expecting. I'm about a third of the way through.

The Dukester:

Bryan Herbert: It had never occured to me to think that maybe he was hard up for money, or even to think that he had enough but just wanted more- even
if that meant... McDune. Maybe he's an imbecile. I mean, how could he not have read through House Atreides and thought, "You know what, I can't allow
this to be published. It just doesn't square with what my father wrote. I've gotta get this right." You know, out of respect for the memory of his father.
Maybe he felt that way but just didn't say anything, for whatever reason. Maybe he's an imbecile.

KJA: It seems like he's the one doing all the writing. Maybe he is also an imbecile. One who style himself "Master of Universes." Maybe he's some kind of
evil douche-bag genius. I mean, he has written a lot of books- many of them best sellers. He has won awards and been nominated for others- ¡The Nebula
Award! I was looking up "Master of Universes kja" and somewhere down the list of results (SandChigger took up the first spots) I found his blog.
Kevin J. Anderson’s Blog
i write. i make up stuff. i adventure hard, so you don’t have to.
How considerate. At least he's a nice guy. Maybe he is a nice guy. I'll have to find out more about him.

One more thing: ¿What's the last remaining shred of dignity that BH had to let go of , or has yet to let go of?

Nekhrun: Thank you for the links. I have bookmarked them and will read through them.
I didn't know KJA had been nominated for a Nebula Award. ¿? I thought that meant something. Maybe I should read the book he was nominated for, but I'm afraid
to.
I also thought of something else while reading through some of those posts: ¿If those two guys are just in it for the money, then why not publish Frank Herbert's
notes and outline for Dune 7? I would pay for a look at those.

I know I shouldn't be calling Mr. BH and KJA names, or talking "smack." It's not like I'm all this or that, or like I've written best sellers. I just feel like they've ruined- not ruined, but tainted- something that was (is) special to me. I know you've heard this all before, I just felt the need to vent and wanted to hear what you have to say.
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby SandChigger » 01 Mar 2011 06:25

JustSomeGuy wrote:I was looking up "Master of Universes kja" and somewhere down the list of results (SandChigger took up the first spots) I found his blog.

:laughing-rolling:

It's true, it's true! There are even posts from Master B here on Jacurutu that come up before Anderson's blahg. :lol:

http://www.google.com/search?client=saf ... 8&oe=UTF-8

Thanks for the heads-up, JSG! :D
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby Mr. Teg » 01 Mar 2011 06:46

TheDukester wrote:I lean toward Persuasive Kevin, Spineless Bobo, and Unfortunate Timing.

I think Kevin can really turn on the charm when he wants something badly enough. So he combined this at just the right time with Bobo's inability to think for himself/act like a man/respect his father's work, and — boom! — the seeds for McDune were planted.

Among the timing aspects we've never really touched on here was Bobo's advancing years and likely lack of a source of income. I'd go so far as to speculate that he'd not done much to set up any sort of retirement fund or to make plans for not cleaning hotel rooms for the rest of his miserable life.

Then along comes a notorious speed-writer who can promise him a fat, reliable, annual paycheck with no effort needed. Problem solved, from Bobo's point of view. All that's required is to let go of that last remaining shred of dignity ...


I lean towards this as well since as mentioned in the past Bobo wrote a glowing review of Ai Perdito by KJA which predates the Big Bang phone call or letter. The connection here is L Ron Hubbard and the WTF's. Otherwords, money. The McDune approach mirrors the Scientology approach with marketing and lawyers (remember poor McNelly who was nuked by Brian's lawyers then later forced to make a dumbshit public statement about the authenticity of Pinky & the Brain).
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby Nekhrun » 01 Mar 2011 09:05

SandChigger wrote:
JustSomeGuy wrote:I was looking up "Master of Universes kja" and somewhere down the list of results (SandChigger took up the first spots) I found his blog.

:laughing-rolling:

It's true, it's true! There are even posts from Master B here on Jacurutu that come up before Anderson's blahg. :lol:

http://www.google.com/search?client=saf ... 8&oe=UTF-8

Thanks for the heads-up, JSG! :D

His Google problem still isn't as bad as Rick Santorum's :lol:
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby Kojiro » 01 Mar 2011 18:54

JustSomeGuy wrote:He has won awards


Just one, really... a fan award that no one's heard of.

and been nominated for others- ¡The Nebula
Award!


Nominations are not wins, fortunately.
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby SandChigger » 01 Mar 2011 19:06

He's received just oodles of awards from miscellaneous blog and other sites.

And enough of the challenged readers of Colorado like his books to have gotten his books several "Best in State" awards. :lol:

He's a hack with a gimmick. If he weren't ass-raping Dune for Frank Herbert's talent-free heirs, he'd just be "that Star Wars & X-Files knock-off guy?"

I'm pretty sure I would never have heard of him. ;)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby Omphalos » 01 Mar 2011 20:21

Kojiro wrote:
JustSomeGuy wrote:
and been nominated for others- ¡The Nebula
Award!


Nominations are not wins, fortunately.


And the Nebulas are awards by buddies, for buddies. The only reason people still talk about them is because 1) they've been around since the mid-60s, and 2) at one time the body had some scruples and nominated some worthy contenders. No longer, and probably never again.

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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby SandChigger » 01 Mar 2011 22:20

Omphalos wrote:And the Nebulas are awards by buddies, for buddies.

Because that's the way the big circle-jerk known as Suckers, Fuckers, Wankers & Asshats rolls.

(Any guesses as to when they'll get around to finishing KJA off with a big money-shot stroke? They've kept him on the edge for so long now the poor guy's getting dehydrated from all the preeking he's been doing! :lol: )
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby Omphalos » 01 Mar 2011 23:04

That lapdpg? I bet his "friends" like Resnick string his ass along for years.

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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby SandChigger » 02 Mar 2011 01:08

I do hope you're right. :lol:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby TheDukester » 02 Mar 2011 12:12

Kojiro wrote:Nominations are not wins, fortunately.

Not to mention ...

1. It was a shared nomination;

2. It was 20 or so years ago.

Oh, wait. I did mention it. Sorry about that, Keith. :music-tool:
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby D Pope » 02 Mar 2011 14:05

Kojiro wrote:
JustSomeGuy wrote:He has won awards


Just one, really... a fan award that no one's heard of.

and been nominated for others- ¡The Nebula
Award!


Nominations are not wins, fortunately.

Everyone forgets to mention that he's got a trophy for being "The Writer With No Future!"
I've always thought of this as irony squared. He keeps it as a yeah, I sure showed them, never realizing that posterity will forget him.

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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby Hunchback Jack » 02 Mar 2011 20:01

Is there a Nebbie for "best short story collection"? That would be my guess, if so. Ie, an award for something he *edited*, not something he wrote himself.

(I seem to recall there's a different term for "collection of stories by the same author" vs "collection of stories by different authors", and I can't remember which one of those is "anthology". Anyway, I mean the latter one).

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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby Sev » 03 Mar 2011 06:01

Thankfully there are no Nebula's for best editor, either short-form or long-form, unlike the Hugo's - so I don't see how Keith could ever get nominated without at least 10 author buddies sucking up big time...

The Hugo's are a different matter. A well as their two editor categories, they have a 'best related work' category which, in my opinion, his '25 Years of Scientology-sponsored nobodies' has a slight chance of getting onto the preliminary ballot for. Thankfully he wouldn't stand a chance in the main ballot, as the voting procedure kicks one out at a time - meaning that everyone votes several times and common-sense would have to kick in at some point!

Basically, he hasn't a chance at ever getting close to any major award...but I think we all knew that in our hearts anyway :wink:
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Re: Analyze BH & KJA

Postby Omphalos » 03 Mar 2011 13:06

Hunchback Jack wrote:Is there a Nebbie for "best short story collection"? That would be my guess, if so. Ie, an award for something he *edited*, not something he wrote himself.

(I seem to recall there's a different term for "collection of stories by the same author" vs "collection of stories by different authors", and I can't remember which one of those is "anthology". Anyway, I mean the latter one).

HBJ


collection = same author. anthology = different authors.


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