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    thus sayeth Keith ...

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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby SandChigger » 30 Jan 2011 03:56

    Yeah, that would stretching the limits of plausibility a bit, wouldn't it? ;)
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby D Pope » 31 Jan 2011 15:38

    SandChigger wrote:
    Omphalos wrote:I'm sure every work that guy wrote before his dad died was a collaboration of one sort or another. I'm just not buying that he could at one point write intelligently, then once daddy dies, POOF, all abilities just disappear.

    Yeah, that would stretching the limits of plausibility a bit, wouldn't it?

    KJA, in 2005, wrote:When Brian Herbert and I began to write the new Dune novels, a group of Dune fans seemed to consider it sacrilege and got very nasty about it. Now, before he died Frank Herbert had asked Brian to write new Dune novels with him (in fact, the very last book Frank wrote was in collaboration with his son). Frank left specific notes and outlines for other Dune stories he intended to tell. I couldn't imagine any more legitimacy than that, but some fans got incensed by the very idea.
    http://www.writing-world.com/sf/anderson.shtml

    To begin with, everyone i've heard from expressed pessimistic hope instead of sacriledge, with one exception.

    Second, Frank had asked Brian to write Dune with him? That's not what Brian says.

    Third, as discussed elsewhere, it's more like Frank had hidden his Dune stuff than anything else. I think the Rider is spot on with that one. Yeah, sure, during their collaberation, Frank 'left' an outline and notes- that's why it took ELEVEN years for them to turn up...

    Finally, i'm sure you can't 'imagine any more legitimacy than that,' that's why you're saying it- you couldn't imagine a better lie! 'Some fans got incensed by the very idea,' that you try to legitimize your crap with lies that are even less imaginative than your books!
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby Kojiro » 31 Jan 2011 17:45

    Assuming the notes exist. I highly doubt KJA's telling the truth that the stupid shit in the McDune books was from Frank Herbert's alleged notes. And if there are notes, they probably still haven't been able to find them.
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby Ampoliros » 31 Jan 2011 21:20

    The matter could have been settled very easily by simply publishing (or preferably adding them to one of the library collections of his writings) some of Frank's notes which show some of those ideas.

    I think its too late for that now.
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 01 Feb 2011 03:41

    Don't know if this has been posted here yet, but here's an interview with both Bobo and Keith about Hellhole:

    http://scifitalk.libsyn.com/hellhole-preview

    Haven't listened to much of it yet.

    Edit: Yeah, you may not be able to listen to much of this in one sitting. Ugh.

    HBJ
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby D Pope » 01 Feb 2011 12:22

    They haven't seen The Dukester & Lundses posts about simply transforming 'today' into scifi by attaching scifi sounding words, they've clearly admitted that this is the case.

    This is the most lucid interview, I think, bobo has ever given- making me think there just might be something to the mastermind theory... Just after 6:30 it sure seems that bobo is the head cheese.

    Does anyone else sense a little snippiness from kevie around 19:00 when he talks about New York Publishers?

    Great find Hunchback!
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby SandChigger » 01 Feb 2011 21:08

    Who is this asshat interviewer?

    Did I correctly hear him suggest that introducing elements of the new books into the Dune movie would give it a "unique flavor"?

    WHERE THE FUCK DO THESE BRAIN DEAD INTERVIEWERS COME FROM?! :angry-screaming:
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby D Pope » 01 Feb 2011 22:15

    Brian admits to having 16 books, with KJA, either written or under contract.
    Twelve Dune offences, and three Dune copies(smellhole) leaves one left under contract, another mcDune? Have I miscounted?
    I'm a little excited that they might be about done writing mcDune. I know that they could move on to different publishers, but sinse it seems the smell is effecting sales then maybe we're looking at the end of the rape.
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby Freakzilla » 01 Feb 2011 22:22

    That is exciting.
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby TheDukester » 01 Feb 2011 23:11

    Interesting ...

    Let's see if I can remember how this goes:

    1. They've got 10 that Keith has already hiked out. =10

    2. Plus Road to Hell ... um, Road to Dune. =11

    3. Plus Twisterhood. =12

    4. Plus the Hellblow trilogy. =15

    Oh, sweet baby Jesus, maybe there's just one more after that! :pray:

    Well, unless Bobo was on the sauce again and/or talking right out of his starfish ... :think:

    Oh, well, it's fun to think about, no matter what happens.

    (And for the record: AFAIAC, they can do whatever they want, for as many years as they want to do it, as long as they stop writing their McDune trash)
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby D Pope » 01 Feb 2011 23:43

    I caught myself in a daydream about the publisher saying 'just keep the money, we're not printing another.'
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby SandChigger » 01 Feb 2011 23:49

    The Great Stools are supposed to be a trilogy, but then again I think I do remember Brian saying something about it being undecided as to whether it would ultimately be two or three books.... :think:
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby D Pope » 02 Feb 2011 00:20

    Fact & hope are getting a little blurred for me, abysmal sales caused the diversion to sistahs after they managed to squeeze out Jessica, right? Maybe 30/70 fact to hope ratio?
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby SandChigger » 02 Feb 2011 04:27

    They've never admitted that publicly, about the sales, of course, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and poo together.

    The official story is that they just couldn't STAND not returning to the earlier time period and telling the stories they've been gagging on it to tell about then FOR YEARS!

    The proper images to associate with that latter are...

    — Brian Herbert shitting himself in anticipation and wandering around with a buttfuddled expression on his face and story material of various consistencies (= McDune Nuggets™) dropping from his full-to-look-out-Noah-bursting Elasto-Waste Depends™/Senior Snuggies™.

    — Kevin J. Anderson in all his tumescent glory, with his storytelling orifice in overdrive, creative juices flowing every which way but lucid, pinching off loaf after steaming loaf of holesome McDune goodness which he reach-around grabs slippery slooooop and smacks down (hard, with a eardrum-fucking buttcheek CRACK!) onto his swollen, pulsating, ventral BIGNAMEness in layer over godawful layer of super-ultra-plus-vacuumal preadjectifixated Polished Prose™. Holy Jebus on the crossbeam, who WOULDN'T touch themselves like that if they were him?!


    (Whoa... I think I need to go lie down after that....)
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby Freakzilla » 02 Feb 2011 08:38

    :lol:
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby lotek » 02 Feb 2011 09:03

    Hunchback Jack wrote:Don't know if this has been posted here yet, but here's an interview with both Bobo and Keith about Hellhole:

    http://scifitalk.libsyn.com/hellhole-preview

    Haven't listened to much of it yet.

    Edit: Yeah, you may not be able to listen to much of this in one sitting. Ugh.

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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby Unfront » 02 Feb 2011 13:21

    In an advertisement for Hellhole, I noticed that they are boasting that this book is witten by the authors of (and I quote) "the new DUNE chronicles" - see video at 0:47 seconds.

    Entirely true but intentionally misleading. :?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUxH6aIXeTU
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby Freakzilla » 02 Feb 2011 14:05

    But of course. :puke:
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby Sev » 02 Feb 2011 15:15

    3 positive comments and 2 negative - so far...
    Freakzilla - "Apparently we can only aspire to be the 13th biggest Dune fan since we are not family or in the HLP."

    Byron - "Are you trying to irk me?"
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby TheDukester » 02 Feb 2011 15:34

    ... with another negative comment just added ... :wink:

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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 02 Feb 2011 22:58

    D Pope wrote:Great find Hunchback!


    Well, Kevvie twatted or Blahgged about it or something, so credit goes to him. But thanks, D Pope, ...

    ... and you can call me Jack, btw

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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 02 Feb 2011 23:50

    Back to that interview for a sec, I thought (maybe wishful-thinkingly) that there were a few more digs between BH and KJA in this.

    Anyway, "highlights" I jotted down included:

    • First answer from KJA: mentions 12 Dune novels, bunch of Brian's books, saggy suns, star wars, terra incognita. Oh, and "it's the sort of story that Dune readers will like".
    • Brian mentions that Kevin came up with the title. He was "a little bit slow to come around". He called it "distinctive".
    • Brian seems to talk about the book more in general terms, themes, and comparing characters to historical people, etc. Kevin seems to like to talk about the details of the book. I wonder if Brian was involved just in the brainstorming, while Kevin actually wrote the book.
    • Brian: "Kevin and I now have 16 books which are either published or under contract"
    • KJA and BH have just finished Sisters, and are about to start the second Hellhole book. (They seem to be getting way ahead of the publishing schedule; KJA now has three completed books (including Hellhole) waiting publication, and they're jumping into the next one?)
    • Brian: I'm trying to write about political, religious and social themes, while Kevin's more interested in blowing up planets. "It's interesting".
    • Kevin: "Both of us have been influenced by the genius of Frank Herbert".
    • Kevin: "If you look at Dune, it's about as complex and broad as you can imagine. When you study it, and when you've written so many books in that universe, as we have, some of it's bound to rub off." I think this might be the first time Kev has actually hinted that he has become a writer comparable to FH by writing in Dune. Brian cut him off pretty quickly, but that might just have been editing.
    • Brian: "As writers you never want to over-explain, you never want to tell too much". Brian seemed to want to make this point very clearly here. Talking to Kev?
    • Kevin wasn't sure of the exact number of planets in "the deep zone".
    • Brian: "there are no aliens in Dune". What, no alien roads?
    • They will spend "down time" during the book tour where they will "brainstorm" the second Hellhole book.
    • Oh, some lame story about a Marine in Afghanistan reading Winds of Dune. Inspired by Hickman? Brian was the one who actually showed some empathy and respect for the soldier in harm's way. Not KJA, of course. He just thought about what the story said about him.
    • Kevin: Sisters is set 80 years after events in BoC. It's about the "formation of a lot of the things that are key to the Dune universe."
    • Brian on Dune: "By the time Frank Herbert completed his portion of the series ..." Well there you have it. No longer are they adding to FH's series; he did "one portion" of the series and they did the rest.
    • In Sisters, they are showing the "importance of women" in the Dune universe. Like FH didn't make that clear.
    • Kev mentions some random award nomination by the "romance writers association", to show how in touch with women he is.
    • Brian on the film: Paramount is looking for directors, they have one in mind.
    • Kevin: "We're involved in the Dune movies, but our main job is to write new books".
    • Brian: "Your not going to see elements of our prequels in a movie called "Dune". "
    • When asked about a site for Hellhole, KJA plugged his own site. It was left to Brian to mention dunenovels.
    • There will be "interesting little collectibles" on the signing tour. :P

    HBJ
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby TheDukester » 03 Feb 2011 00:00

    Good work, as usual, HBJ.

    Can I just jump to my favorite part?

    Hunchback Jack wrote:I wonder if Brian was involved just in the brainstorming, while Kevin actually wrote the book.

    I'm convinced this is happening for the 11th time now in their McDune "collaborations."

    I don't think Bobo writes a word of them. He's got the correct last name and he holds the keys to the kingdom. That's it. There's no "trading of chapters" or "editing each other's stuff." Those are flat-out lies told to keep the preeks feeling warm and fuzzy and to give the spineless interviewers something to latch onto.

    Spanky McDune was picked as the hired gun simply because he's like a Hike-On-Demand service. They slap a "DUNE" on the cover, make sure Bobo's name goes first, and Bob's your uncle. Everyone goes to the bank.

    Anyway, that's the end of that rant. There's lots of good stuff you found in there, HBJ, so I'll turn the floor over to others ...
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 03 Feb 2011 00:07

    Thanks, Dukester. I would have liked to do a full transcript, but it's a pretty long interview, and it's damned tedious. Maybe when I have some more time.

    This interview seemed to have a *bit* more new stuff in it. Maybe because they were dividing the time between two new books rather than just rehashing the McDune Origin Myths.

    HBJ
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    - Carl Sagan

    I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
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    Re: thus sayeth Keith ...

    Postby D Pope » 03 Feb 2011 03:28

    Sorry mate, it seems obvious now that you've pointed it out to me. :oops: I'm not worthy.

    "A bit more new stuff?" Where to begin! Most of this is almost as good as that audio book interview!

    I've been kicking around Chigs evil mastermind theory and after listening to this interview, i'm beginning to come around. Brian no longer seems to be the helpless buffoon under the spell of a persuasive and energetic kevie, nope, Brian handles KJ with the talent of a master. Brian definetly comes off as the more intellegent of the two, just listen to KJs laugh as Brian explains about how much kevie likes to blow up planets! I'll betcha the title 'Hellhole' was a concession to a petulant kev, can you imagine the tantrum? I'll also lay money on the idea that Brians objection is based on the notion that parents might not want to buy a book with a bad word as a title for their kids. (Kevin probably argued that the restriction would make it all the more desireable- before holding his breath.)

    As far as there being more digs between the two, I think they're there, you just have to wrap your mind around the wierd relationship these guys have. They say that there are no 'big' disagreements but from hints given in other interviews, I get the feeling they bicker a lot. If we knew them better, i've little doubt we'd hear a whole other dialog being played out in this interview. Still, what is there, on the surface, is great stuff!
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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