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    Reading the prequels more than once

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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby TheDukester » 16 Sep 2010 13:31

    I usually have no problem telling people what I really think, trust me ... 8)

    I'll stick to what I said: it makes me sad. And baffled, I guess. I simply cannot fathom anyone subjecting themselves willingly to such shit-awful "writing" from a pair of no-talent hacks — twice.

    Why not just sharpen a few pencils and use them to poke around at some open sores? Wouldn't the subsequent feeling be about the same?
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby grandmastercrafter » 16 Sep 2010 13:33

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:I'm done reading them, period. Not even once will I read any of their stuff. I read all of Legends and it was fun to laugh at, so was Hunters to a point, but Sandworms actually removed some of my love for Dune, it hurt me deeply. It's going to take a long time for that to wear off, and I will not risk similar ever again.

    I was hurt by Hunters and Sandworms as well, as I'm sure many of us were... I respect that you don't want to experience that again, but I have willingly taken McDune on again and again, steeling myself against that pain, to make sure I don't screw the pooch when I talk about McDune. Since I 'talk' so much, I don't want to be in a position where I come across as ignorant of the facts when I try to argue/discuss my points with preeqs... their most frequent claim being "you haven't even read them or given them a chance" :roll: - I can easily dumb it down to their level and they can't say shit like that to me (that's the theory, anyways).
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby grandmastercrafter » 16 Sep 2010 13:52

    TheDukester wrote:I usually have no problem telling people what I really think, trust me ... 8)

    I'll stick to what I said: it makes me sad. And baffled, I guess. I simply cannot fathom anyone subjecting themselves willingly to such shit-awful "writing" from a pair of no-talent hacks — twice.

    Why not just sharpen a few pencils and use them to poke around at some open sores? Wouldn't the subsequent feeling be about the same?

    yea :lol: noticed that, and trust your word on that anyways - it's not a problem if it's not directed my way, that's all... but if you stick by what you said, so be it :obscene-birdiedoublered: . imho baffled is understandable - the concept is not accepted or understood by many. Sad for the future of the world that I'd repeatedly read and use McDune against McDune?? I'm pretty sure you're not actually sad about that (going out on a limb here)... :roll:
    If you cannot fathom it, no problem... if I can use their own material to help bring em down, I'll bring this up again with you at that time (probably never going to happen, but there you go...)
    ...and no: pencils + open sores = different feeling, not similar at all. But it was a funny comparison, and nicely said, but not accurate. :teasing-neener:

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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Sep 2010 14:03

    Don't get me wrong, I aplaud those of you who brave the storm to read these things and bring us reports of their terrible shittyness.
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby TheDukester » 16 Sep 2010 14:07

    Another way of looking at it is that your dedication to the cause is greater than mine. If you're willing to fall upon the live grenade that I think of as re-reading McDune, then you've got more strength than I do. I'm not sure I could do it, even if paid by the page.

    *Shudder*

    I'll have to settle for taking my fight to Keith and Bobo (and the preeks) along different avenues. And I think we approach the whole thing slightly differently, anyway. I'm not so much concerned with The Hacks' actual words — which are all shit, as far as I can see — but the fact that they are writing in the Dune universe in the first place. I find that insulting on a bunch of different levels.

    Short version: my loathing is of a more general nature.
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby grandmastercrafter » 16 Sep 2010 14:19

    TheDukester wrote:Another way of looking at it is that your dedication to the cause is greater than mine. If you're willing to fall upon the live grenade that I think of as re-reading McDune, then you've got more strength than I do. I'm not sure I could do it, even if paid by the page.

    *Shudder*

    I'll have to settle for taking my fight to Keith and Bobo (and the preeks) along different avenues. And I think I approach the whole thing slightly differently, anyway. I'm not so much concerned with The Hacks' actual words — which are all shit, as far as I can see — but the fact that they are writing in the Dune universe in the first place. I find that insulting on a bunch of different levels.

    Short version: my loathing is of a more general nature.

    yea - understood :) and your fight is inspirational, imho... appreciate the words :wink: and your point is well-taken - they really shouldn't be in this universe at all, and it IS an insult. But it's a fait accompli... the only way forward is to see what could conceivably happen from here. My way is most likely not the best way, and is definitely not the only way, but it's going to be, for a while anyway, my way - hehehe I'll stop when my reserves run out, or when RL slaps me and asks me to look elsewhere... :lol:
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby dunaddict » 16 Sep 2010 14:22

    TheDukester wrote:I'm not so much concerned with The Hacks' actual words — which are all shit, as far as I can see — but the fact that they are writing in the Dune universe in the first place. I find that insulting on a bunch of different levels.

    Well, that's interesting. Why are you insulted by that? If the writing was good, there were no inconsistencies and the style was something Frank Herbert might have written, would you still feel insulted?
    True, the whole interquel concept is distasteful (THE sequel to DUNE, etc.) but I wouldn't mind a GOOD butlerian jihad trilogy. Alas, it sucked.

    Speaking of "good" prequels, I just remembered someone who was trying to restructure all the chapters and stories in House Atreides to make it better/more consistent. :o I think it was on this forum. Anyone knows what I'm talking about? I can't find it anymore.

    EDIT: Sorry, I read it wrong. Thought you said YOU felt insulted. But still, if the writing was good, would it still be an insult to Frank Herbert?
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby TheDukester » 16 Sep 2010 14:29

    dunaddict wrote:If the writing was good, there were no inconsistencies and the style was something Frank Herbert might have written, would you still feel insulted?

    No.

    But what you describe is happening only on Opposite World; I'm forced to live in this one.

    Also, if the owners showed an ounce of respect for their property, I'd probably have fewer than 50 posts at this site.

    I've said this many times here: I have no problem with the concept of a Dune EU; it's the execution that couldn't have possibly been worse. The HLP could have hired a Simmons or Silverberg to nurture Bobo and put out, say, two or three books total, all skillfully and painstakingly produced.

    Instead, they hired a notorious hack who is, quite literally, known throughout the industry as the biggest jobber anyone has ever seen.

    Big difference.
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby grandmastercrafter » 16 Sep 2010 14:30

    dunaddict wrote:
    TheDukester wrote:I'm not so much concerned with The Hacks' actual words — which are all shit, as far as I can see — but the fact that they are writing in the Dune universe in the first place. I find that insulting on a bunch of different levels.

    Well, that's interesting. Why are you insulted by that? If the writing was good, there were no inconsistencies and the style was something Frank Herbert might have written, would you still feel insulted?
    True, the whole interquel concept is distasteful (THE sequel to DUNE, etc.) but I wouldn't mind a GOOD butlerian jihad trilogy. Alas, it sucked.

    ummm... that's a good question... I had hoped they'd do a good job, but it never happened, each time. Hard to imagine now, with all that's gone on. :lol:
    TheDukester wrote:I've said this many times here: I have no problem with the concept of a Dune EU; it's the execution that couldn't have possibly been worse. The HLP could have hired a Simmons or Silverberg to nurture Bobo and put out, say, two or three books total, all skillfully and painstakingly produced.

    That could have been beautiful. or at least not as ugly as it is...
    Last edited by grandmastercrafter on 16 Sep 2010 14:32, edited 1 time in total.
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby dunaddict » 16 Sep 2010 14:31

    Duke, I know that, but you definitely said it was NOT the words, but the fact that they are writing in the Duniverse that makes you sick.
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby dunaddict » 16 Sep 2010 14:46

    TheDukester wrote: The HLP could have hired a Simmons or Silverberg to nurture Bobo and put out, say, two or three books total, all skillfully and painstakingly produced.
    Big difference.


    This is something I that's bugging me as well; the fact they've written more dune novels than Frank Herbert ever did. :shock:

    What do you think of Brandon Sanderson writing the 'Wheel of Time' finale? That has also (unsurprisingly) become 3 books instead of one, but the reviews are all pretty positive. I'm still in book 7, so it will be a while until I can judge his version of Jordan's writing style.
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby TheDukester » 16 Sep 2010 14:55

    dunaddict wrote:Duke, I know that, but you definitely said it was NOT the words, but the fact that they are writing in the Duniverse that makes you sick.

    Yes.

    Confused.

    The fact that KEVIN J. ANDERSON AND BRIAN HERBERT are writing in the Dune setting is what makes me sick.

    The point I thought we were reaching is that there's degrees of anti-McDune feeling. For some here, it's galling how the Two Idiots mess up all of the details, every time. That's not me (although I admit that stuff like Paul/Kaitan makes me grit my teeth).

    My approach is general: I know they will mess everything up; I know they are incapable of ever getting better; I know they don't give a shit. So I don't really care about their specific words; no matter what order they put them in, none of it will make any sense, or have anything at all in common with Dune.

    Thus, I'm not compelled to break down the McDune books for inaccuracies, etc. I already know that the only thing residing between those covers is Pure Suckfulness. I don't need to know the exact amount.
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Sep 2010 15:38

    Just to clarify, Duke is pissed because they have already been established as garbage writers. As such he doesn't need to know the words, the fact that they keep going at all is bad enough, he can safely assume that it is garbage.
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby merkin muffley » 16 Sep 2010 22:42

    All you have to do is open any one of their books to a random page. They never let you down.

    You're gonna come across something like "The stone is heavy and the sand is weighty..."
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby SandChigger » 17 Sep 2010 01:02

    FH in Dune wrote: "Perhaps. And if so, I'll give you my father's answer to those who act without thinking: 'A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty; but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both.'"

    ;)
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby MrFlibble » 17 Sep 2010 04:27

    M-m-mhhh... sandy weighty...[/homerjsimpson]
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby SandChigger » 17 Sep 2010 08:03

    :lol:

    You're on a roll today. :D
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 24 Sep 2010 23:17

    I'm with Dukester. I wouldn't have a problem with competent - or, preferably, excellent - writers extending the Dune universe. I wouldn't even mind if they incorporated new elements, so long as they didn't contradict the originals, and were used to explore the same kind of themes as Frank did. Even if I didn't particularly like the result, I would probably be more accepting of better writers.

    Back to the "reading more than once" subject, I just wouldn't waste my time. Not only are these not good books by the standards established for Dune by Frank, they are not good books, period.

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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby lotek » 25 Sep 2010 04:12

    merkin muffley wrote:All you have to do is open any one of their books to a random page. They never let you down.

    You're gonna come across something like "The stone is heavy and the sand is weighty..."


    and that's one of the good ones!
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby SandChigger » 25 Sep 2010 09:58

    Anything good in McDune comes from FH. ;)
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby D Pope » 25 Sep 2010 10:40

    merkin muffley wrote:All you have to do is open any one of their books to a random page. They never let you down.

    You're gonna come across something like "The stone is heavy and the sand is weighty..."

    I doubted, so I tried it. Here's the first thing I saw.
    In Dune The BJ they wrote:Our appetite encompasses everything.

    Thinking it might be a fluke, I tried again and found this gem.
    More they wrote:The answer is a mirror of the question.

    Deep...
    I think Mr. Muffley is on to something at least as reliable as a magic 8-ball.
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby merkin muffley » 25 Sep 2010 10:52

    :lol:

    Oh Gawd, it's awful!
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby SandChigger » 25 Sep 2010 11:23

    Of course it's awful... it's KJA. :doh:
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby dunaddict » 25 Sep 2010 15:15

    SandChigger wrote:Anything good in McDune comes from FH. ;)

    Logically, this means Brian Herbert = good...

    :oops: Sorry, couldn't resist.

    EDIT: Reading it again, I think my logic is flawed. If you had said "Anything from FH in McDune is good", then "Brian Herbert = good" is true.
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    Re: Reading the prequels more than once

    Postby lotek » 25 Sep 2010 16:30

    merkin muffley wrote::lol:

    Oh Gawd, it's awful!

    SandChigger wrote:Of course it's awful... it's KJA. :doh:



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