To read or not to read

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Idahopotato
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To read or not to read

Postby Idahopotato » 13 Oct 2009 17:02

I guess I am an OH, but not really by choice. You see, when I had first heard that there was this "mystery" safe deposit box with hundreds or even thousands of notes and an outline for Dune 7, I was super stoked. I had always wanted to see this story come to a proper conclusion, especially the battle of with the hidden enemy. And when I heard it would be co-authored by the Son of Frank Herbert and some seasoned science fiction author (I had never read the star wars books or whatever other garbage he had written), I thought "how could they get this wrong?" Well I picked up the house series, all three at once. I can't tell you how much I hated those pieces of horse shit. Actually I probably could, but I assume you guys have already been there. Well I decided to give the BJ series a shot since I thought I wouldn't be nearly as critical with that series, figuring that a completely different setup that was not contingent upon characters already created by the old man wouldn't be nearly as bad. Oh was I wrong on that one. Luckily I had only purchased the one book, since the others had not been written (dictated) yet. I actually didn't finish that book. I got to the part where Omnius sent all those drones of his mind into the unknown reaches of space and knew right then and there that these hacks were going to turn the enemy into machines. Years later I read the plot synopsis for hunters or sandworms or whatever and it turned out I was right. I closed the book and proceeded to toss it into the garbage next to the old pizza boxes and empty beer bottles. So my question is do you guys think I should read the others as a laugh or else to contribute to the ongoing KJA beat down? Or should I consider myself fortunate enough to not have had to suffer through them and just go on with my life?

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Ampoliros
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Re: To read or not to read

Postby Ampoliros » 13 Oct 2009 17:28

Well if you get tired of using Beer and other recreations to kill brain cells, you can read KJA.

The problem is you can't read KJA and socialize at the same time, and it won't make you more attractive to the opposite sex, nor make them more attractive to you.

Now on the up hand if you have a wall you're thinking of knocking down, and need the motivation to start, you can always set up your reading area angled such that the hurled 'text' will dent that wall.

There are plenty of synopses here and elsewhere. If for some reason you think that there are only 5 of us making up all the bad parts you can risk delving into the books yourself, but don't say we didn't warn you.
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Re: To read or not to read

Postby DuneFishUK » 13 Oct 2009 17:38

Audiobooks are the way forward - listen to them at work and they don't tie up your evenings or your quality reading time.

I've got the Dune 7 audiobooks pencilled in for when I finish listening through the originals... but I'm not going to commit myself just yet. :?

If you don't like it don't read it... but... if you haven't read it how can you criticise it :P The best weapon against the new books is the new books. We can always use another discrepancy spotter.

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 13 Oct 2009 17:56

All I can say is that if you didn't make it through Legends, you probably won't make it through Sandworms. I hated all of Legends, then hated Hunters less, which was nice, then read Sandworms and SHIT A BRICK. Let me warn you right now that the enemy being omnius is not even CLOSE to the worst part about that book, so many things happen that completely destroy everything Frank Herbert wrote that it is just about unbearable.

I liked making fun of the hacks, and it was all fun and games to me until that book. I honestly and truly wish I had not read it, and I would not recommend reading it to someone else, even if they just want to read it for ammo to make fun of those idiots. Trust me, you read that book at your own risk, it may literally make you like the originals less just by association.
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Re: To read or not to read

Postby SandChigger » 13 Oct 2009 18:02

(Aye, and a right smelly breeck it war ... Aye. Arrrrrh.)

Well, my basic advice is "read but never buy". Not that I follow it myself. :P
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby Idahopotato » 13 Oct 2009 18:20

A Thing of Eternity wrote:All I can say is that if you didn't make it through Legends, you probably won't make it through Sandworms. I hated all of Legends, then hated Hunters less, which was nice, then read Sandworms and SHIT A BRICK. Let me warn you right now that the enemy being omnius is not even CLOSE to the worst part about that book, so many things happen that completely destroy everything Frank Herbert wrote that it is just about unbearable.

I liked making fun of the hacks, and it was all fun and games to me until that book. I honestly and truly wish I had not read it, and I would not recommend reading it to someone else, even if they just want to read it for ammo to make fun of those idiots. Trust me, you read that book at your own risk, it may literally make you like the originals less just by association.


Ok this is the best advice I could ever get. No way in hell am I going to put myself in that situation, not with all of the stuff out there actually worth reading. And if Omnius isn't the worst part, and I couldn't get past that in the first legends book, then I have no hope of making it through sandworms. Plus I actually love my wife and don't think she deserves the verbal abuse I would spew in her direction, nor the possibility of collateral damage caused by the ricochet of the book off that wall I am trying to remove.

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby Freakzilla » 13 Oct 2009 18:29

Ampoliros wrote:Well if you get tired of using Beer and other recreations to kill brain cells, you can read KJA.


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Ampoliros
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Re: To read or not to read

Postby Ampoliros » 13 Oct 2009 18:48

Freakzilla wrote:
Ampoliros wrote:Well if you get tired of using Beer and other recreations to kill brain cells, you can read KJA.


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Re: To read or not to read

Postby Mandy » 13 Oct 2009 18:52

I'm never going to read any McDune, because it can never be unread.
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Re: To read or not to read

Postby DuneFishUK » 13 Oct 2009 19:25

Mandy wrote:I'm never going to read any McDune, because it can never be unread.

I can barely remember anything from Paul of Dune - it was instantly forgettable.

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby trang » 13 Oct 2009 20:15

DO NOT READ THEM... you will avoid brain hemmorage and short term rage blindness, and some might mistake you for being full blind and set you off into the sands for Shi'hulud to take you!!!

Skim the Wiki's and other Dune Info sites, you can garner what ya need.
Read the old posts and archives and you can get what you need from there also.

Have a Spice beer, Enjoy your new OH life, keep FH cannon handy for reread, grab a copy of the DE for some fanfic, make some new friends here at land of the outcast.

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby Futar » 13 Oct 2009 21:47

SandChigger wrote:Well, my basic advice is "read but never buy". Not that I follow it myself. :P


if only i could go back in time and slash my tires so i couldnt drive to the bookstore...

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby SandRider » 13 Oct 2009 22:55

read Amp's Winds of Dune notes and then decide ...

there's no reason to actually read that bullshit when others here will
& post all the silly stuff for ridicule. this also pisses off butthurt KJASFers
@ Amazon- "I didn't read it, won't read it, and I know it sucks."

you can still pick up all the inconsistencies for arguments without wasting the time,
and it doesn't take more than a random paragraph of KJA to determine he's an asshat.
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M.A.L
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Re: To read or not to read

Postby M.A.L » 13 Oct 2009 23:00

In the end it's up to you whether you read them or not. What happened to me was, I went to the book store to get new copies of COD
and Heretics and when I got there I saw that there was other Dune books, I didn't even know others were writen. So all the house books and legend books where out in paperback so I scooped them up. After reading them I couldn't believe that someone who said they were such big fans of Dune could completly screw them up.

Well later I found out that they were going to finish Frank's books using notes, so I thought that those would at least be consistent with Franks but I was sadly mistaken. After reading hunters I decided not to pay for one of their books again. Hell I wasn't going to read sandworms but I got it for a present from my mother, nice gift huh. But since then I haven't bought or read one of their books and don't plan on it. It seems like they don't even care about the source material I'm not going to care about their's. Hope this helps.

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby TheDukester » 13 Oct 2009 23:37

Firmly in the do not read camp. Nothing can be gained, save for ulcers and tension headaches. And possibly cancer.

The passages quoted at this site should tell you everything you need to know about TheKJA and The Other Guy. It's not like they suddenly get better in the parts that aren't being quoted here.
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Re: To read or not to read

Postby Schu » 14 Oct 2009 00:24

I would say read Hunters and Sandworms only. Hunters is the least crap offering of the KJA crap, though it did have possibly the most head-slappingly stupid mistake (you know how everyone knows that Teg can move really fast? Everyone apparently forgets for absolutely no reason, and are really surprised when he starts doing it again, and Teg treats it like a secret.) but it has some stuff that genuinely looks like it might have come from FH's magical deposit box.

Sandworms is a turd of a book, however, and it is all that you need to never want to touch KJA shit again.

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby SandChigger » 14 Oct 2009 01:08

(Remember, they quietly and quite underhandedly fixed the "Teg problem" in the paperback. ;) )

Edit: To wit, on p.76 of the US paperback of Grunters, added text in red:

Teg's expression did not change. Lack of control was not one of the Bashar's weak points. "You seemed distracted, so I took advantage of it."

Duncan narrowed his eyes. "Good, I prefer for you to use your skill like that. But couldn't you just accelerate yourself, disarm me in the blink of an eye? Not all of us have forgotten what you can do."

Teg seemed briefly alarmed. "What I could do. If you only knew how that drained the old Bashar, and I'm just a ghola of him. I don't know how much my body can handle." He looked away, as if in embarrassment. "I would rather not remind the Sisters of it. You and Sheeana saw me once, but I doubt any of the others aboard this ship know. If Garimi ... well, you know how terrified some of them get when any male shows unexpected abilities. It wouldn't be safe for me."


As he looked at the young man before him, sweat dripping down his brow, Duncan saw a strangely doubled image. As an old man, the original Bashar had raised and trained the Duncan ghola child; later, after Teg's death on Rakis, the mature Duncan Idaho ghola had raised the reborn boy.

There was never any official mention of this, and it was Poey over on DN who pointed it out. I believe ByrByr mouthfarted something about a printer's error, or the passage being accidently cut during the editing. :roll:

(I just happened to have the paperback here in the office today. I forget whether the text was also inserted into the UK ppbk. Anyone have a copy handy?)

It's a good thing someone occasionally keeps them honest, since they seem incapable of it themselves.

(Note also there that "I'm just a ghola of him", reinforcing the idea that gholas are inferior somehow; no doubt that's supposed to resonate with the idea, introduced in this fartfest of a book, that the Tleilaxu Masters' bodies degenerate and fall apart quickly.)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby Schu » 14 Oct 2009 02:15

Hrmmmm. Might have to look for where everyone seemed to be shocked, and see if Duncan and Sheanna were among them.

Doesn't matter, because everyone else was, and everyone else would have known too. But that's interesting, I'd never seen that little passage.

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby SandChigger » 14 Oct 2009 04:58

Schu wrote:Hrmmmm. Might have to look for where everyone seemed to be shocked, and see if Duncan and Sheanna were among them.

Yeah, I keep meaning to do that, too. ;)

(IIRC Poey said he thought there was another passage that had been inserted or changed, but I got bogged down trying to go through the two paperbacks against the hardcover. ... :puke: )

Edit: Be sure to use this on Pestie next time he slimes through ... because it's really difficult NOT to look at this like a change they made in response to our criticisms of the hardcover. :twisted:


Edit 2: someone eventually needs to go through the SoD & PoD & WoD paperbacks to make sure they haven't pulled the same shit with them. :evil:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby Hunchback Jack » 15 Oct 2009 14:15

SandChigger wrote:(I just happened to have the paperback here in the office today. I forget whether the text was also inserted into the UK ppbk. Anyone have a copy handy?)


Yes, the text is also in the UK PB edition.

If the lack of text in the US HC edition was a "printing error", then the UK HC edition would have it, right? Anyone have the UK HC?

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby Harq al Ada » 19 Oct 2009 19:34

they are pretty forgettable. could be because I hit my head repeatedly after reading most of the house books and part of the jihad that may have resulted in amnesia.

or maybe it's some sort of post traumatic stress disorder that wiped away the horror.

WARNING: KJA's Dun(c)e causes PTSD. Hard hats required while reading.
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Re: To read or not to read

Postby DuneFishUK » 20 Oct 2009 07:06

Harq al Ada wrote:they are pretty forgettable. could be because I hit my head repeatedly after reading most of the house books and part of the jihad that may have resulted in amnesia.

or maybe it's some sort of post traumatic stress disorder that wiped away the horror.

WARNING: KJA's Dun(c)e causes PTSD. Hard hats required while reading.


I was wearing eye protection and a respirator for most of PoD (audiobook) - maybe that's why I got off so lightly? :)

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby insidiom » 20 Oct 2009 08:41

DuneFishUK wrote:Audiobooks are the way forward - listen to them at work and they don't tie up your evenings or your quality reading time.

I've got the Dune 7 audiobooks pencilled in for when I finish listening through the originals... but I'm not going to commit myself just yet. :?

If you don't like it don't read it... but... if you haven't read it how can you criticise it :P The best weapon against the new books is the new books. We can always use another discrepancy spotter.


ive listened to all 6 chronicles on audio and made it 1/4 of the way through hunters.

dont get the audiobook, for peter's sake. scott brick does most of the reading for hunters and sandworms and he has got to be one of the worst voice actors i have ever heard. he would be good at narrating court proceedings or voice overs for autopsies. the timbre is dark and warm, which i like....but if you hear him read the quotations from the stolen journals in GEoD at the beginning of every chapter, it's possible you might rip your own ears off. monotony and redundancy lose their meaning and each word blends, blandly, into the next. when i started listening to hunters i thought i was going to go crazy. couldnt finish it.

just stick to the chronicles audiobooks. simon vance does most of the narration and voice acting for the chronicles and does a great job. he changes his voice and delivery for most every character and even infuses cultural inflections as those characters. it helps to keep the listening process enjoyable and interesting. it also helps to discern between characters. dune is a little over-produced but the rest are pretty good. vance is the man and, IMO, is clearly the more qualified to read the chronicles.
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Re: To read or not to read

Postby DuneFishUK » 20 Oct 2009 13:51

insidiom wrote:
DuneFishUK wrote:Audiobooks are the way forward - listen to them at work and they don't tie up your evenings or your quality reading time.

I've got the Dune 7 audiobooks pencilled in for when I finish listening through the originals... but I'm not going to commit myself just yet. :?

If you don't like it don't read it... but... if you haven't read it how can you criticise it :P The best weapon against the new books is the new books. We can always use another discrepancy spotter.


ive listened to all 6 chronicles on audio and made it 1/4 of the way through hunters.

dont get the audiobook, for peter's sake. scott brick does most of the reading for hunters and sandworms and he has got to be one of the worst voice actors i have ever heard. he would be good at narrating court proceedings or voice overs for autopsies. the timbre is dark and warm, which i like....but if you hear him read the quotations from the stolen journals in GEoD at the beginning of every chapter, it's possible you might rip your own ears off. monotony and redundancy lose their meaning and each word blends, blandly, into the next. when i started listening to hunters i thought i was going to go crazy. couldnt finish it.

just stick to the chronicles audiobooks. simon vance does most of the narration and voice acting for the chronicles and does a great job. he changes his voice and delivery for most every character and even infuses cultural inflections as those characters. it helps to keep the listening process enjoyable and interesting. it also helps to discern between characters. dune is a little over-produced but the rest are pretty good. vance is the man and, IMO, is clearly the more qualified to read the chronicles.

I dunno - most of the time I don't mind Scott Brick. I can see... hear, why people don't like him, but it doesn't annoy me too much. If you want to hear Dune being read badly search for Connor O'Brien - he's the guy who put me off audiobooks for years.

But yeah - Simon Vance is the man. I just finished COD (which is 95% him - itself a bit odd, 100% him would make more sense surely?) and he was proper good. Aww - just re-read your post: does Brick really read the stolen journals? I like him, but Vance sounded like he actually understood Leto when he reads the complicated stuff - he makes it engaging... bum. Will see tomorrow :)

Re: The newest version first Dune. I had to stop listening to that, it was really well done an all, but they cut out all the "he said" "she whispered" - and that really pissed me off :evil: George Guidall was much more better.

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Re: To read or not to read

Postby Hunchback Jack » 22 Oct 2009 12:27

I think how Brick sounds depends very much on the material. He does try to inject drama and emotion into his voice when he reads, and unfortunately, if the writing is overwrought or over-the-top to start with, Brick makes it worse - almost to the point of satire.

I have heard him read things where he does a good job. The new Dune novels, however, are not in that category.

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