how many dune books did that man write ?!?

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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Freakzilla » 28 Jul 2009 19:10

SandChigger wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Wasn't it Brian (another relative maybe?) who talked him into getting one?

I'm pretty sure it was Brian. (Or at least Brian took credit for it in RtD.)

Some irony, huh? :roll:


It's the INTERNET he's afraid of... oh, I mean he that has philosophical reservations against... not computers. Omnius... I mean... the internet didn't exist yet.

:wink:
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Hunchback Jack » 28 Jul 2009 19:35

I would think it *extremely* unlikely that a floppy disk that that would be usable after 15 years. An "expert" *might* be able to recover something from it, but you couldn't just stick it in a drive and read stuff off it. The chances it had degraded to unreadability would be high.

From my limited experience anyway.

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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Freakzilla » 28 Jul 2009 21:23

Hunchback Jack wrote:I would think it *extremely* unlikely that a floppy disk that that would be usable after 15 years. An "expert" *might* be able to recover something from it, but you couldn't just stick it in a drive and read stuff off it. The chances it had degraded to unreadability would be high.

From my limited experience anyway.

HBJ


CDs and DVDs don't last that long.
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby SandChigger » 28 Jul 2009 22:05

Actually, CDs do.

At least they last nearly 22 years. I still have some I bought when I first got over here and they still play fine. :)


Computers, Internet, whatever. Brian Herbert has NO BALLS. And his shit-for-brains family just enables his silliness.

Feh on all the issue of Frank Herbert.

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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby TheDukester » 28 Jul 2009 22:08

Hunchback Jack wrote:I would think it *extremely* unlikely that a floppy disk that that would be usable after 15 years.

I'll go a step further: I doubt they've ever been anything other than a prop. The photo proves nothing: it's some handwriting on a disk. Big deal.
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby SandChigger » 29 Jul 2009 00:38

BULLSHIT from day one.

A pic of the floppies with a printout of the contents, or with the contents displayed on a computer screen, one of those MIGHT HAVE BEEN a little more convincing for a while. MIGHT have been.

But after reading Hunters and Sandworms, anyone who believes there was an outline that they actually used is an idiot.

Period.

And the ones telling the tale? Well, there's a word for them.
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Hunchback Jack » 29 Jul 2009 01:01

TheDukester wrote:I'll go a step further: I doubt they've ever been anything other than a prop. The photo proves nothing: it's some handwriting on a disk. Big deal.


Oh, absolutely. There are a few reasons to believe the disks are not genuine.

1) The data on disks that age are probably unreadable.
2) The labels on the disks pictured have not discoloured, either from age or from the adhesive seeping through the paper over time. Nor has the ink from the writing bled into the label at all. Almost all disks I've seen that are more than 5 or so years old exhibit this kind of discolouration - particularly 5" disks. Yet those labels look pristine.
3) KJA or BH have not given any indication that getting the data off the disks was a problem. Yet it would have been considerable work for someone. Just figuring out which early 80s computer system was used to write the disks would have been tricky, and then recovering the data from them would not have been trivial.

I tend to think the disks are fake, but even if they are genuine, I doubt KJA and BH bothered to try to get the data off them.

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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby SandChigger » 29 Jul 2009 01:21

I think I've mentioned the question of the file timestamps before.

If they were able to read the floppies at all, they should have been able to get that information as well. And that would prove invaluable in ascertaining when FH created the files, last modified them, etc.

There's never been any mention at all of that sort of info.

It's time to extend the "Internet dictum": If there are no printouts or other evidence, it didn't happen. :twisted:
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby trang » 29 Jul 2009 01:26

Hunchback Jack wrote:
TheDukester wrote:I'll go a step further: I doubt they've ever been anything other than a prop. The photo proves nothing: it's some handwriting on a disk. Big deal.


Oh, absolutely. There are a few reasons to believe the disks are not genuine.

1) The data on disks that age are probably unreadable.
2) The labels on the disks pictured have not discoloured, either from age or from the adhesive seeping through the paper over time. Nor has the ink from the writing bled into the label at all. Almost all disks I've seen that are more than 5 or so years old exhibit this kind of discolouration - particularly 5" disks. Yet those labels look pristine.
3) KJA or BH have not given any indication that getting the data off the disks was a problem. Yet it would have been considerable work for someone. Just figuring out which early 80s computer system was used to write the disks would have been tricky, and then recovering the data from them would not have been trivial.

I tend to think the disks are fake, but even if they are genuine, I doubt KJA and BH bothered to try to get the data off them.

HBJ


While I believe 150 percent the disks are bogus and the outline was crap. I have disks that are that old, originals for games from the day, and data disks of my own, well over 20 years old. I have kept them in prisitine condition by keeping the dust jacket on them and keeping them in floppy disk containers that protect them from the elements. I have 5 1/4 inch floppy drives in my computer at home, and a couple spares wrapped up, just in case they die, and I need to access them. (Ill take some photos of my disks and drives when I get home tomorrow and post them up, I havent stored them away yet for the move.)

THis photo shows the disks without the dust jackets, the disks are exposed to the elements thru the drive access cut out, which will cause damage. It just depends on how, where, and what the disks were stored in.

I dont think saying Frank had a "computer" would be the right phrase, in his day it would have been a glorified "Word Processor", computers for the home were limited and expensive.
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Hunchback Jack » 29 Jul 2009 01:30

Agreed, Chig.

If they were able to provide an account of how they got the data off the disks, what state the data was in, what system the disks were for, and provide printouts of the disk directory contents and the "outline" file contents, then I'd probably be convinced. Depending on what I saw.

But this story of finding a disk with an outline, and showing a couple of 5" floppies *without sleeves*, without any more details, makes me very skeptical.

And as you said, Chig, Hunters and Sandworms are pretty strong evidence against any outline of Frank's being involved.

Edited to add: having 20 year-old 5" floppies that still work is pretty impressive, trang. Perhaps my opinion is tainted by my experience in trying to get some old Apple ][ disks to boot after being stored away for the better part of ten years. Perhaps a more careful archivist would have had a better hit rate :).

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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby lotek » 29 Jul 2009 01:35

i concur, I bought an old atari ST(the only computer with MIDI connection built in)and got a bunch of old floppies with it.
All the ones I tried did work...

Which leads me to believe that considering the poor writing and story telling that either
- KJA and that Dr. Wellington Yueh of a son never actually opened them even if they did work
- they were opened but contained not much as FH was not a computer man it is possible that he didn't use it much

And the fact that my breath was not taken away when I foolishly attempted to read some of them...
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Mr. Teg » 29 Jul 2009 05:21

I think it was in an interview last year that Brian said, "there were two different types of handwriting on the computer disks they found." Regardless of the pics posted, it's an interesting quote coming from Brian.

It was discussed inn an older thread is that the outline or disks that were found ( :wink: ) may well have been what Frank had been working on with McNeilly. (If the nudune books have any connection to the previous duniverse, it's to the Dune Encyclopedia otherwise all Star Wars and Hubbard stuff.)

For the new members, McNeilly had many conversations with Frank Herbert about a prequel book and later had even submitted a sample chapter to Brian, who completely blew off McNeilly, only to sick the HLP lawyers on him and later get him to make a statement disavowing the DE when he is dying from cancer. Classy...

There was a book published on Frank and his books shortly before he died, and in that book is a quote Frank Herbert states that he was working on a Dune prequel (even though Brian had stated that it was not true, but FH had told Brian personally he wanted to do the book only with his son someday in the future).

Btw, the type of computer Frank used should be listed in his book on computers, Without Me Your Nothing.

I think Pinky and the Brian have screwed themselves over time. No pun intended...wait :D
In the beginning, it was an extensive outline with thousands of pages of notes (probably Brian staring at a bottle of thousand island dressing in a drunken stupor) but over the course of several years dwindled down to 2-3 page outline which in their own words "not sure but something like a 2-3 pages outline" On top of that, is a great quote from Freak when he talked to Kevin at Dragoncon(?). Kevin said the best stuff was in RtD. If so, then 99% of the material was pulled from the Fullerton Archives. So much for the thousands of pages of newly discovered notes and floppy disk.
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Redstar » 29 Jul 2009 08:24

Mr. Teg wrote:I think it was in an interview last year that Brian said, "there were two different types of handwriting on the computer disks they found." Regardless of the pics posted, it's an interesting quote coming from Brian.

It was discussed inn an older thread is that the outline or disks that were found ( :wink: ) may well have been what Frank had been working on with McNeilly. (If the nudune books have any connection to the previous duniverse, it's to the Dune Encyclopedia otherwise all Star Wars and Hubbard stuff.)

For the new members, McNeilly had many conversations with Frank Herbert about a prequel book and later had even submitted a sample chapter to Brian, who completely blew off McNeilly, only to sick the HLP lawyers on him and later get him to make a statement disavowing the DE when he is dying from cancer. Classy...

There was a book published on Frank and his books shortly before he died, and in that book is a quote Frank Herbert states that he was working on a Dune prequel (even though Brian had stated that it was not true, but FH had told Brian personally he wanted to do the book only with his son someday in the future).

I've mentioned this before, but shouldn't McNelly's sample chapter and outline for his proposed Butlerian Jihad novel still be in the university?

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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Mr. Teg » 29 Jul 2009 08:32

Redstar wrote:
Mr. Teg wrote:I think it was in an interview last year that Brian said, "there were two different types of handwriting on the computer disks they found." Regardless of the pics posted, it's an interesting quote coming from Brian.

It was discussed inn an older thread is that the outline or disks that were found ( :wink: ) may well have been what Frank had been working on with McNeilly. (If the nudune books have any connection to the previous duniverse, it's to the Dune Encyclopedia otherwise all Star Wars and Hubbard stuff.)

For the new members, McNeilly had many conversations with Frank Herbert about a prequel book and later had even submitted a sample chapter to Brian, who completely blew off McNeilly, only to sick the HLP lawyers on him and later get him to make a statement disavowing the DE when he is dying from cancer. Classy...

There was a book published on Frank and his books shortly before he died, and in that book is a quote Frank Herbert states that he was working on a Dune prequel (even though Brian had stated that it was not true, but FH had told Brian personally he wanted to do the book only with his son someday in the future).

I've mentioned this before, but shouldn't McNelly's sample chapter and outline for his proposed Butlerian Jihad novel still be in the university?


He had stated he would never make his sample chapter public, this was after describing the HLP lawyers as blood suckers.
This is from a long time friend of Frank Herbert and the man who help create a university archive to protect his legacy.
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Freakzilla » 29 Jul 2009 08:50

Sad :(
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Redstar » 29 Jul 2009 09:22

Mr. Teg wrote:
Redstar wrote:
Mr. Teg wrote:I think it was in an interview last year that Brian said, "there were two different types of handwriting on the computer disks they found." Regardless of the pics posted, it's an interesting quote coming from Brian.

It was discussed inn an older thread is that the outline or disks that were found ( :wink: ) may well have been what Frank had been working on with McNeilly. (If the nudune books have any connection to the previous duniverse, it's to the Dune Encyclopedia otherwise all Star Wars and Hubbard stuff.)

For the new members, McNeilly had many conversations with Frank Herbert about a prequel book and later had even submitted a sample chapter to Brian, who completely blew off McNeilly, only to sick the HLP lawyers on him and later get him to make a statement disavowing the DE when he is dying from cancer. Classy...

There was a book published on Frank and his books shortly before he died, and in that book is a quote Frank Herbert states that he was working on a Dune prequel (even though Brian had stated that it was not true, but FH had told Brian personally he wanted to do the book only with his son someday in the future).

I've mentioned this before, but shouldn't McNelly's sample chapter and outline for his proposed Butlerian Jihad novel still be in the university?


He had stated he would never make his sample chapter public, this was after describing the HLP lawyers as blood suckers.
This is from a long time friend of Frank Herbert and the man who help create a university archive to protect his legacy.

Can we... steal it? To compare his, FH-appoved outline of the BJ, to the "official" one? Or would that just be disrespecting McNelly's wishes?

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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Freakzilla » 29 Jul 2009 09:23

Redstar wrote:
Mr. Teg wrote:
Redstar wrote:
Mr. Teg wrote:I think it was in an interview last year that Brian said, "there were two different types of handwriting on the computer disks they found." Regardless of the pics posted, it's an interesting quote coming from Brian.

It was discussed inn an older thread is that the outline or disks that were found ( :wink: ) may well have been what Frank had been working on with McNeilly. (If the nudune books have any connection to the previous duniverse, it's to the Dune Encyclopedia otherwise all Star Wars and Hubbard stuff.)

For the new members, McNeilly had many conversations with Frank Herbert about a prequel book and later had even submitted a sample chapter to Brian, who completely blew off McNeilly, only to sick the HLP lawyers on him and later get him to make a statement disavowing the DE when he is dying from cancer. Classy...

There was a book published on Frank and his books shortly before he died, and in that book is a quote Frank Herbert states that he was working on a Dune prequel (even though Brian had stated that it was not true, but FH had told Brian personally he wanted to do the book only with his son someday in the future).

I've mentioned this before, but shouldn't McNelly's sample chapter and outline for his proposed Butlerian Jihad novel still be in the university?


He had stated he would never make his sample chapter public, this was after describing the HLP lawyers as blood suckers.
This is from a long time friend of Frank Herbert and the man who help create a university archive to protect his legacy.

Can we... steal it? To compare his, FH-appoved outline of the BJ, to the "official" one? Or would that just be disrespecting McNelly's wishes?


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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Redstar » 29 Jul 2009 09:30

Freakzilla wrote:
Redstar wrote:
Mr. Teg wrote:
Redstar wrote:
Mr. Teg wrote:I think it was in an interview last year that Brian said, "there were two different types of handwriting on the computer disks they found." Regardless of the pics posted, it's an interesting quote coming from Brian.

It was discussed inn an older thread is that the outline or disks that were found ( :wink: ) may well have been what Frank had been working on with McNeilly. (If the nudune books have any connection to the previous duniverse, it's to the Dune Encyclopedia otherwise all Star Wars and Hubbard stuff.)

For the new members, McNeilly had many conversations with Frank Herbert about a prequel book and later had even submitted a sample chapter to Brian, who completely blew off McNeilly, only to sick the HLP lawyers on him and later get him to make a statement disavowing the DE when he is dying from cancer. Classy...

There was a book published on Frank and his books shortly before he died, and in that book is a quote Frank Herbert states that he was working on a Dune prequel (even though Brian had stated that it was not true, but FH had told Brian personally he wanted to do the book only with his son someday in the future).

I've mentioned this before, but shouldn't McNelly's sample chapter and outline for his proposed Butlerian Jihad novel still be in the university?


He had stated he would never make his sample chapter public, this was after describing the HLP lawyers as blood suckers.
This is from a long time friend of Frank Herbert and the man who help create a university archive to protect his legacy.

Can we... steal it? To compare his, FH-appoved outline of the BJ, to the "official" one? Or would that just be disrespecting McNelly's wishes?


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Well, yeah. I wasn't serious about that; I meant "go there and look at it".

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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Omphalos » 29 Jul 2009 12:00

Redstar wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Redstar wrote:
Mr. Teg wrote:
Redstar wrote:
Mr. Teg wrote:I think it was in an interview last year that Brian said, "there were two different types of handwriting on the computer disks they found." Regardless of the pics posted, it's an interesting quote coming from Brian.

It was discussed inn an older thread is that the outline or disks that were found ( :wink: ) may well have been what Frank had been working on with McNeilly. (If the nudune books have any connection to the previous duniverse, it's to the Dune Encyclopedia otherwise all Star Wars and Hubbard stuff.)

For the new members, McNeilly had many conversations with Frank Herbert about a prequel book and later had even submitted a sample chapter to Brian, who completely blew off McNeilly, only to sick the HLP lawyers on him and later get him to make a statement disavowing the DE when he is dying from cancer. Classy...

There was a book published on Frank and his books shortly before he died, and in that book is a quote Frank Herbert states that he was working on a Dune prequel (even though Brian had stated that it was not true, but FH had told Brian personally he wanted to do the book only with his son someday in the future).

I've mentioned this before, but shouldn't McNelly's sample chapter and outline for his proposed Butlerian Jihad novel still be in the university?


He had stated he would never make his sample chapter public, this was after describing the HLP lawyers as blood suckers.
This is from a long time friend of Frank Herbert and the man who help create a university archive to protect his legacy.

Can we... steal it? To compare his, FH-appoved outline of the BJ, to the "official" one? Or would that just be disrespecting McNelly's wishes?


Nothing illegal is condoned by Jacurutu.
~Management

Well, yeah. I wasn't serious about that; I meant "go there and look at it".


Ill talk to the Fullerton special collections librarian the next time I am there. Maybe she can help.

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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Ampoliros » 29 Jul 2009 12:08

lotek wrote:- KJA and that Dr. Wellington Yueh of a son


I must protest this analogy. Yueh betrayed the Atreides only out of love for his wife. He certainly regretted his role as a betrayer but saw it as an necessary evil. His goal was essentially the same as Duke Leto's: the destruction of the Baron.

Brian is either brain-fried into believing his hired typewriter monkey can re-create Dune, or he's doing it on purpose out of revenge against his father. Either way, his motivations are petty, unlike Yueh's.
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Freakzilla » 29 Jul 2009 12:11

The sad thing is, I think they really believe they are adding quality stories to the Dune Universe.

I dictated better sci-fi into a tape recorder as a teenager... on LSD.
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby SandChigger » 29 Jul 2009 16:05

The whole HLP is probably in major denial. Why else would Byron go on about more people reading FH's books now, blah blah blah.

People can perform amazing mental gymnastics in order to rationalize and justify reaching out to take that check.

(Believe me, I know. ;) )

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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Tleilax Master B » 29 Jul 2009 16:35

Hehe. Man I haven't been here for months and we are still refuting the existence of the disks,notes and outline? :doh:

I think you all have sufficiently summarized it--ITS ALL BULLSHIT. Every last stinking lie. They want $$$$$$ and will stop at nothing to get it. Byron, Brian, KJA, all of the bastards.

Screw 'em, I say. I still do my part. I trash them every chance I get. I talk my friends out of buying or reading any of these stinkers. I'm always directing people to Chigger's blog so they can get a heapin' helpin' of KJA trashing :D

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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby GamePlayer » 29 Jul 2009 17:58

I'd be surprised if anyone at the HLP could find their way around a cook book.

Seriously though, I doubt the HLP as a collection of individuals are in denial about anything relating to Dune. The HLP is running a business and if there's one thing that's true about business it's that you don't have to know jack shit about your product to run a business; you just have to realize the demand that exists and what kinda of product sells within that demand. The Hollywood studios have made a fortune for over 75 years and the vast majority of studio owners wouldn't know the first thing about what makes a good movie. The HLP is no different. They recognized a demand for Dune and what kind of product would satisfy that demand. They then chose the most efficient word factory they could find for an affordable rate (one Kevin J. Anderson) and proceeded to pump out product to sell as fast as they could.

Problem is, Dune is not a business...or let me state that more accurately; Dune should not be a business. The "business" was supposed to be publishing, specifically science fiction. Frank Herbert was a part of that industry, writing successful science fiction for a rather sizable portion of the science fiction market. Frank's work was so successful it even attracted the praise and business of those readers outside of science fiction literature market. But Frank himself was not a business and neither was Dune....until now.

I have to admit, the HLP has sustained some business savvy for quite some time, as limited as that is. They've emulated the branding practices of numerous other companies AND the HLP think long term. I find it no coincidence this latest Dune adaptation is arriving at a time when sales of nu-Dune have been dropping off for years. After all, a Dune film adaptation could have been done at any time. The environmentally conscious market has existed for decades. The special effects have existed for decades. There was certainly no shortage of acting/writing/directing/producing talent. The Lynch Dune adaptation was forgotten almost right after it was released. So why now? Because diminishing returns on the books demands a way to surge forward with a marketing scheme that will reignite interest in the books. What better way than to build a bloated, box office bash about Dune that spurs all the consumers into buying more Dune books, which in turn means more nu-Dune.

Money, money, money. :)
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Re: how many dune books did that man write ?!?

Postby Hunchback Jack » 29 Jul 2009 20:03

Back on the disks for a moment.

Are these:
Image


... supposed to be the actual disks? Or are they a mock-up done by someone here?

The reason I ask is that they look different from the ones on DuneNovels, which are supposed to also be the real disks.

Pictured here for convenience:
Image Image

Just wondering.

HBJ