Analysis of Kevin

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TheDukester
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby TheDukester » 01 Aug 2009 23:20

SandChigger wrote:... but I think I've also seen it attributed to Karen Traviss or other Star Wars writers.

That's how I heard the tale ... but I can't vouch for its accuracy.

Either way, these franchise authors are sure a sensitive lot, aren't they? Methinks they're all pretty insecure about their skills and secretly despise the fact that the world considers them all to be rent-a-hacks.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Rakis » 01 Aug 2009 23:36

I will kindly inquire if this was really the ending Frank Herbert had in mind (deux ex machina). I will ask weather they had a deadline to meet and wrote the book at too quick a pace that even he would admit it and hence all the unnecissary plot elements. I'll advise them that they should have written just one 700 page sequel focussing more on the ghola characters development, eliminating unnecissary details and to think up better ways to wrap up the story if possible.


:lol: While your at it Nebby, ask him to politely shove his head up his ass...

Your such a Mary Poppins, Nebby... :) Don't ever change... :lol:
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Mandy » 02 Aug 2009 19:21

TheDukester wrote:
SandChigger wrote:... but I think I've also seen it attributed to Karen Traviss or other Star Wars writers.

That's how I heard the tale ... but I can't vouch for its accuracy.

Either way, these franchise authors are sure a sensitive lot, aren't they? Methinks they're all pretty insecure about their skills and secretly despise the fact that the world considers them all to be rent-a-hacks.


I thought it originated with Karen Traviss too, but I did some Googling and found it attributed to Bob Eggleton on some sites.

Found this while nosing around the internet (authors whining about literary snobs) http://www.irosf.com/q/zine/article/10064

Here's Anderson's comment on tie-in snobbery (10):

Most of the people I've encountered who scorn 'media tie-in' books have never read them. I'll hold up my Jedi Academy books or the Dune prequels against any of my original novels. I put in my best work, no matter what. True, back in the 1970s some authors who wrote such spin-off novels had nothing but contempt for their own work, and it showed. Nowadays, though, many authors are huge fans as well as writers, and they fight tooth-and-nail for the assignments. I've written a lot of those books—and I've loved them—but I'm in good company. If novels based on 'somebody else's universe' are such a 'bad thing,' then why have so many of them been written by such respected and award-winning authors as Joe Haldeman, Greg Bear, David Brin, Gregory Benford, Walter Jon Williams, Mike Resnick, Steven Barnes, Kristine Kathryn Rusch, Gregory Keyes, and others?

It's hard to argue success with the list of authors Anderson cites. He goes on to say:

[Writers complain,] 'It's too constraining! I can't play by someone else's rules.' Well, that's just plain nonsense. Any story has to be written within certain parameters, and only SF or F has the bizarre notion that every author must create the whole universe from scratch with each book. Thriller or mystery writers are constrained by the realities of police procedures or the capabilities of forensic science. Historical writers have to be true to the land and period in which they set their stories. James Clavell had to follow the rules of ancient Japan when he wrote Shogun. Kevin Anderson has to follow the rules of Frank Herbert's universe when he co-writes a new Dune novel. Any author worth his or her salt should be able to do that. It's like saying you can't write a novel set in Seattle because you can't be 'constrained' by the climate of the Pacific Northwest or the geography of the city.

A long time ago, fast-paced fun works such as the pulp magazines or the Heinlein juveniles were the 'gateway drugs' to get young readers into science fiction. Today, no matter how much the grumpy old guard complains, that gateway is TV and movies. Fans who fell in love with Star Wars moved on to reading my novels, or Tim Zahn's, or Mike Stackpole's. Then many of them graduated to reading my Seven Suns novels or other science fiction. I see my own sales figures before and after I started doing media tie-ins.

Anderson finishes up with a comment passed along from Hugo Award winning artist Bob Eggleton:

I call those readers who scorn tie-ins the Talifan, because of their 11th century attitudes toward the genre.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby SandChigger » 02 Aug 2009 20:03

He's such a fucking hypocrite.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Hunchback Jack » 02 Aug 2009 21:55

He's such a tool. Some immediate responses:

* I hate how he groups the star wars and Dune books together as "media tie-ins". Couldn't be clearer how he thinks of Dune.
* The authors he lists aren't respected because of their work in other universes, but because of their own work. And the response to their other-universe work has been mixed. Where it was praiseworthy, it was due to their respect for the original author's work and universe.
* He has said himself that he prefers his own universes because he finds writing in other universes too constraining.
* I hate how he refers to other authors as if they're his buddies - "Tim Zahn", "Mike Stackpole"
* Can't resist putting in a plug for his own SF series.
* Oh right, "Talifans" are those who have "old-fashioned views" of media tie-in work vs. original work. Funny that it's been more commonly used as a derogatory term for fans who criticize the deviations from "canon" of new writers in established universes.

Unbe. Fricken. Lievable.

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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby trang » 03 Aug 2009 00:35

The man is an Egomaniac.. and a Literary Assasin I fully believe that.

He contradicts hisself with this statement:

"Kevin Anderson has to follow the rules of Frank Herbert's universe when he co-writes a new Dune novel. Any author worth his or her salt should be able to do that."

Rule one, Book one, page one, epigraph one.. of DUNE... PAUL WAS BORN ON CALADAN and his FIRST OFF WORLD TRIP WAS TO ARRAKIS!!!!!!!

Should put that on a t-shirt and wear to a convention where he is going.

Anyway,

He also seems to desperatly want to justify his style/mechanics of writing (majority of it in other established 'verses) and make it sound like its the norm of the day, when it is far from the truth.

If an author wants to write in the Star Wars, Star Trek, Buffy the Vampire Slayer or which ever, is decent at it, works the confines well, tells a good story with familiar characters, and makes decent money... more fucking power to them!!

When stated et Al decides after a time, to maybe strike out on their own. Produce's an original work, that turns out to be successful, more fucking power to them.


Neither of the above applies to Fart blocker.

He feels his volume is the moniker of success for any author, measuring the entire literary trend by his center of the world. His original works, by other person review, are marginal at best, terrible at worst. His other 'verse works are also met with disdain, and yet he disregards all negative input (even if not attacking and just a clean critique) and push's it to the side, and promotes the positive.


I can name 5 authors that have put out at a similar pace, that are their original works, on time, that fucking smoke anything fart blocker has written.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scalzi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Buettner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._Keith,_Jr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarFist_series (Co_Written by David Sherman and Dan Cragg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Weber

KJA.... please do DUNE a favor and go back to some other 'verse and destroy it, or the biggest favor of all, ween yourself from the teet that is DUNE, and just go write your own horrible creations and destroy the minds of your zombie followers? A small recant on the way out might be a classy touch.. and you can leave all the Talifans from Dune behind.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Ampoliros » 03 Aug 2009 19:14

We should start our own Birther movement with copies of Paul's Birth certificate saying he was born on Caladan.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby SadisticCynic » 03 Aug 2009 20:42

First he compares his work to Zahn or Stackpole, then talks about graduating to his Seven Suns novels. I don't think graduating is the right word somehow...

I've read Zahn and Stackpole's Star Wars books and while you could probably easily find places to criticise them they're still way ahead of Anderson in terms of writing. As far as I know the first Star Wars EU books written were by Zahn, and were the ones that got me into Star Wars books (Heir to the Empire trilogy). Then came the dreaded Jedi Academy trilogy...
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby GamePlayer » 03 Aug 2009 21:17

Zahn is no star writer, but his books were still far more entertaining than anything Anderson has written. But why even indulge Kevin's categorization? Anderson blusters and shouts like he's one of the worlds greatest author. He continually sings his own praises in one interview after another and defends his work against his critics by quoting "awards", "sales figures" and "quantity", all while marginalizing the critics as "talifan" or worse.

I say, if Anderson wants the crown, he has to fight the champs.

Frank Herbert, Robert A. Heinlein, Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, Ursula Le Guin, Philip K. Dick, Ray Bradbury, and all the old greats kick Anderson's ass.
All the good modern sci-fi writers like Iain M. Banks, Peter F. Hamilton, William Gibson, Orson Scott Card, Micheal Crichton, Margaret Atwood, Dan Simmons also kick Anderson's ass.

That leaves Kevin at the bottom of the barrel, where he should be.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby TheDukester » 03 Aug 2009 21:19

Zahn was the first, yes. And his stuff holds up well today, although the world of franchise literature has changed so much since that first trilogy that it's practically a different epoch. Back then, Zahn was the Star Wars EU, essentially ... there were the three movies, the (non-canon) Marvel Comics, some oddball items such as Splinter of the Minds Eye ... and that was it. Then this new series comes along and many people were just blown away by the idea of expanding Star Wars' horizons.

Fast forward to recent times, and — as we all know — any SF/F property with any staying power at all has a truckload of EU items, mostly books. And instead of Zahn, we get hacks such as TheKJA, who are hired solely because they are quick, cheap, and not smart enough to do anything other than stick to the Fanboi Formula.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Ampoliros » 03 Aug 2009 22:25

the best part of the zahn trilogy was that you actually felt like you were back in the SW universe. the best part of the jedi academy trilogy is Stackpole's apologetic "I Jedi". I mean KJA fucked up star wars so bad someone else had to write a repair novel. After that KJA only edited the short story collections: The best selling ever!, which obviously had more to do with KJA's name rather than the huge STAR WARS logo and picture of Boba Fett on the cover. He and his wife wrote a YA series for Star Wars as well. Looks like Lucasfilm at least knew where to put him.

I would definitely like to see a response from KJA on if he left the SW universe willingly.

Oh I forgot, he got a second chance with Darksaber, which is among the 3 most hated SW novels ever written on just about every list.

Dare we start a master list showing KJA's original novels and where he lifted each idea? I don't say borrowed. Frank Herbert borrowed heavily from arabic culture. KJA 'lifts' the Star Wars prequels and supplants them in Paul's court.

He lifts the Fremen from Dune and plants them in Saga of Seven Sucks. He lifts Byzantine and Crusade history and plants it in Terra Incognita.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby GamePlayer » 03 Aug 2009 23:04

Zahn wasn't a great talent, but he could write an entertaining book. There's about as much to enjoy in Zahn's Star Wars book as there is in watching something like Iron Man or Pirates of the Caribbean COTBP. But the Zahn books aren't great pieces of literature that challenge the reader. Zahn did succeed in making the three Star Wars books (Heir, Dark Force and Last Command) enjoyable science fantasy tales with some daring story telling for a SW story. His villain in particular, Grand Admiral Thrawn, was particularly memorable. Still, I felt the books suffered from a lack of strong character in many points and they often felt stretched in certain spots. He also featured some events that just didn't feel very Star Wars like and actually pulled me out of the story. At some points I recall characters doing things that felt very James Bond-ish and even Star Trek-ish. Like I said, they were good for a read at the time, but I've left them in the past and not revisited them.

Of course, Kevin J Anderson is neither entertaining nor challenging, so what's his excuse? :)
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Nebiros » 12 Aug 2009 04:11

I asked about Kevin's mental state of health because I want to know where Kevin is getting it wrong in life. Sure we hate his guts for exploiting other people's resources and his writing is terrible, but things seem to work out for Kevin. I pointed out that a shrink would say that he is arrogant, greedy and has a longing for love and respect from many people. But the fact is it works for Kevin. He is able to put food on the table and have the love of fanboys which is what he wants.

My question basically is: How do you tell other people, especially your kids NOT to be like Kevin when Kevin has done pretty well for himself? In what way is Kevin's lifestyle UNHEALTHY?

His passion and his obsession with being famous has gotten him wealth and happiness.

Sure he may never get what he ultimately wants which is to be one of The Greats (and he does indeed fear this which also motivates him to keep trying), but when it comes to survival in this world and finding happiness, he has achieved that. Plus on the issue of being remembered when he is gone; the only people who matter are his wife and children.

We may give weak sauce points like:

You may get kidnapped by crazy fans (Stephen King's Misery)

The trees that are cut down for his books (actually there are now lumber/tree farms with fast growing trees so cutting down the rainforests is not necessary)

While I do not intend to be like Kevin because my life goals are different, tell me exactly why I should not.

As for causing pain and suffering towards others, his McDune does not do that. They do not cause lung cancer like cigarettes. People are dumb because they choose to be dumb. His books do not kill brain cells. Kevin is no Nazi or Afghan warlord.
Last edited by Nebiros on 12 Aug 2009 07:44, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Samarkan » 12 Aug 2009 05:00

Kevin is not insane like Charles Manson is insane. Kevin is not evil like Adolf Hitler was evil. Kevin is a douchebag (I believe that's the proper clinical term for his medical condition). He is a douchebag for ruining Dune. He had little care for the established canon in which he based his shitty fanfic stories. And it's not one inconsistency or two... it's many, many, many. He's awfully smug and dismissive when the facts are brought up. This might be why people like myself are irritated by him. Possibly... just possibly... maybe.

So? Insane? No.

Douchebag? Yes.

His success is inconsequential in regards to my views about him. His Dune fanfic series could have tanked and I still would have hated them.

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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Nekhrun » 12 Aug 2009 08:47

Nebiros wrote:As for causing pain and suffering towards others, his McDune does not do that.
They do not cause lung cancer like cigarettes.
People are dumb because they choose to be dumb.
His books do not kill brain cells.
Kevin is no Nazi or Afghan warlord.


They Do.
Cigarettes are good.
Not necessarily.
Yes they do.
No, he's worse.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby SandChigger » 12 Aug 2009 09:35

Nebiros wrote:My question basically is: How do you tell other people, especially your kids NOT to be like Kevin when Kevin has done pretty well for himself? In what way is Kevin's lifestyle UNHEALTHY?

Why do you twist yourself in knots over things like this? You've said you'll only have ONE kid, and since she's a girl and you'll raise her to end up barefoot and preggers in some other man's kitchen, what's the point? :roll:

His passion and his obsession with being famous has gotten him wealth and happiness.

Are you sure about either of those? Have you asked him directly and received some sort of response? Does he seem happy to you?

Plus on the issue of being remembered when he is gone; the only people who matter are his wife and children.

He hasn't reproduced that we know of. The son is hers with her first husband.

While I do not intend to be like Kevin because my life goals are different, tell me exactly why I should not.

You're even more talent-free? (I'm thinking not "should not", but "could not".)
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby TheDukester » 12 Aug 2009 10:03

Nebiros wrote:His passion and his obsession with being famous has gotten him wealth and happiness.

I don't see any evidence of either.
Last edited by TheDukester on 12 Aug 2009 20:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Nebiros » 12 Aug 2009 20:17

Does he seem happy to you?


When you read his blogs, and I know you do, here is a man who really enjoys life. Travel, good food, spending time with friends and hiking. A lot of this is a result of him doing what does.

As for wealth, does he not call all the shots for the HLP? We are always saying how much a controlling person he is. I would assume he receives the lion share of the milked money especially since he does most of the work.

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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Nekhrun » 12 Aug 2009 20:18

Nebiros wrote:
Does he seem happy to you?


When you read his blogs, and I know you do, here is a man who really enjoys life. Travel, good food, spending time with friends and hiking. A lot of this is a result of him doing what does.

As for wealth, does he not call all the shots for the HLP? We are always saying how much a controlling person he is. I would assume he receives the lion share of the milked money especially since he does most of the work.

He doesn't enjoy life, he rubs it in his fans faces so they know how much better he has it than them. Remember: He adventures hard so you don't have to.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby TheDukester » 12 Aug 2009 20:26

Nebiros wrote:When you read his blogs, and I know you do, here is a man who really enjoys life.

We're looking at different internets, then.

I see a man who is bitter, whiny, confrontational (as long as he can hide behind his keyboard), jealous, and obsessive. Much of the happy bullshit he posts — "I climbed Mt. Everest today! Twice! — is quickly undone when he bitches about something 10 minutes later.

I think he's a desperately unhappy person.
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby SandChigger » 12 Aug 2009 20:51

TheDukester wrote:I think he's a desperately unhappy person.

I really hope so. :D

(Nebby, since you quote me but obviously haven't mastered getting the poster name into it, I assume that your "When you read his blogs, and I know you do..." was aimed at me. When have I ever said I don't read his blogs? It's like common public knowledge. Doofus. :roll: )
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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Hunchback Jack » 12 Aug 2009 23:29

Wealth? Yes. Happy? Hmm, maybe. Some days, yes. Some days, no.

But what has he done wrong? He's earned his fames and money by destroying the work of someone much more talented than he is.

If someone made a lot of money by taking existing works of art, say, and destroying them to make souvenirs for tourists, and they had a great life, would you ask what they are doing wrong?

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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Slugger » 13 Aug 2009 00:32

"How often it is that the angry man rages denial of what his inner self is telling him."

This quote comes to mind....

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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby Nebiros » 03 Sep 2009 22:27

Since there should be no place for Kevin in the world of writing except for books based on films when they are in demand, what alternate jobs are there out there for him that are much less offensive? Throughout this forum there have been suggestions. So let's list and discuss them.

I mentioned politics because he likes having power and masses of unconditional supporters. But this is not really his field.

Making Saturday morning cartoons was mentioned earlier on this thread. Sounds good enough since his ideas are more cartoon than realistic.

Writing comics especially superhero comics. Sure. He has done this before with Star Wars but he should take it up full time. The comic nerds would love him and he'd probably get along well with Stan Lee.

Maybe astronomer or astronaut so he at least learns about light speed and the size of our universe since he does not seem to understand it in his books.

Film director/producer. Hmmm... untested.

Finally, park ranger since he loves to hike. I'm not sure if he has ever been a boy scout or knows any survival skills but he could learn before he gets too old.

SIX options other than writing!

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Re: Analysis of Kevin

Postby TheDukester » 03 Sep 2009 23:31

How about javelin catcher?
"Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.