Further Weak Writing Examples - ATTN: REDBUGPEST

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Further Weak Writing Examples - ATTN: REDBUGPEST

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 24 Jun 2009 13:16

By the time of God Emperor of Dune, humanity has spread out across the universe, into many different galaxies. This is not debatable. In my last thread, I talked about how Omnius simply could not have travelled to the outskirts of the Scattering via broadcast, in this thread we will look at a vastly larger mistake by KJA. Not only did he fail to plausibly get Omnius to the edge of the Scattering – he actually FORGOT how far the Scattering is. Hunters and Sandworms are written as if the entire human race was contained within ONE galaxy! The books actually claim that some parts of the Scattering are WITHIN the one galaxy! This is a slightly reworded version of a post I made over at DN, a post that Byron and the rest failed miserably to argue against! Let us begin…

Sandworms is written in a way that clearly shows all of humanity to be contained within one galaxy, in a way that stops making any sense as soon as the multi-galaxy idea is introduced. I’m not so purely OH that the fact that these books contradict the originals is my biggest issue with them – my biggest issue it that they are bad writing. Period. The fact that they mentioned multiple galaxies in Hunters and then persisted to write the novels that the way they did is the height of contradictory writing, I’m honestly blown away by how little sense these books make now, I had previously missed/forgotten the passage in Hunters where they do mention multiple galaxies, and had assumed that the authors did not know about the multiple galaxies, or were hoping that no one noticed the inconsistency.

There are two options for opinions:

1 – Sandworms does in fact take place in just one galaxy, contradicting FH and, apparently, Hunters (maybe KJABH didn’t even realize that they wrote “multigalactic” in Hunters, or didn’t stop to think about what that word means. That’s actually not very far fetched considering how they call the machine ships “lightspeed” in Sandworms when they clearly are faster-than-lightspeed ships)
2 – Sandworms now makes no sense at all.

Based on the fact that in Hunters they do mention the multiple galaxies, I guess I’m going to have to go with number 2. The authors knew about the multi-galactic setting, but wrote the entire plot as if there were only one galaxy. So now we’ve gone from a book that contradicted FH (and still does) to a book that is so poorly written it hurts. Things don’t have to be spelled out to contradict each other, and I can show a number of contradictions in regards to the scattering within the Dune 7 books. Here’s a few problems that come to mind.

- Leto II's empire was multi-galactic... but in Sandworms the machines are (supposedly) conquering worlds from the Scattering (as stated by the narrator and BG, so this is not a machine mistake) WITHIN the one galaxy. I don't think that planets within the old empire could have counted as being from the scattering… so this is pretty painful.

Supporting quote:
Startling the assemblage, a large holographic projection appeared, filling the open space
of the Keep's great meeting room with detailed maps of the galaxy's numerous solar systems.
An advancing blot indicated the thinking machines' conquests, like a tidal wave drowning every
system in its path. The darkness of defeat and extermination had already blackened most of the
known systems in the regions of the Scattering.
~ Sandworms

- To elaborate on how KJABH didn’t think this through very well we can look at where the machines were found and where the HM originated from. The Machines are clearly found within the old empire galaxy, but the Enemy was found in some of the farthest reaches of the scattering (galaxies very, very far away). How can they be on the outskirts of the scattering and inside the old empire at the same time?

Supporting Quote:
After his assassination, human civilization fragmented. Fleeing to the far reaches of the galaxy in the Scattering, people
became hardened by their privations until the worst sort of humans - Honored Matres – had blundered into the burgeoning machine empire....
~ Hunters



- The characters (BG) talk about how they cannot "run away" and how all of humanity is going to be doomed. IF this story contained a multi-galactic humanity neither of those opinions would have been voiced by the BG - they could easily run away further than the machines could find them, and most of humanity would already be safe and away. This supports the idea that BH&KJA were writing about all of humanity being in that galaxy. Even with the FD helping the machines using foldspace ship’s they’d never find all the scattered humans. Overlooking obvious weaknesses like this is a trademark of cheap fiction.

Supporting quote:
“We can't survive simply by running or by breeding faster than Omnius can kill us.”
~ Sandworms



Also, I’d like to elaborate on my response to something Byron said in an earlier post.

Quote Byron:
I believe one of the thinking machines states this, but since the machines were not present at the scattering, they certainly don’t know if other humans have traveled to other galaxies.


- Actually the machines would have known all about this from simply asking the FD, or from some simple intelligence work in the old empire. It’s kind of a common topic, hard for the machines to miss… and we’ve established that the old empire itself was multi-galactic, so the machines really would have known about this whole “un-conquerable” thing pretty easily. So again, this is an example of poor writing if this is the excuse that the authors want to go with on this mistake. Another example of the machines being too unintelligent to handle simple tasks… and an unintelligent super AI = bad writing.
Last edited by A Thing of Eternity on 25 Jun 2009 16:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby Schu » 24 Jun 2009 13:44

A Thing of Eternity wrote:2 – Sandworms now makes no sense at all.


Only now? ;)

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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby TheDukester » 24 Jun 2009 14:33

Waiting ... waiting ...

It looks like Bri-Bri is going back to KJA for some coaching on this one. As soon as he gets his instructions, he'll be sure to respond.
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby GamePlayer » 24 Jun 2009 14:39

TheDukester wrote:Waiting ... waiting ...


waiting on you... :lol:
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby SandChigger » 24 Jun 2009 14:54

TheDukester wrote:Waiting ... waiting ...

It looks like Bri-Bri is going back to KJA for some coaching on this one. As soon as he gets his instructions, he'll be sure to respond.

That occurred to you as well, huh? :lol:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 24 Jun 2009 14:56

Give him some time, I just threw a HUGE pile of garbage on his plate for him to clean up. If he even attempts to answer half my examples of poor writing he will have risen far above Byron.

I've seen people try to use KJA to help them answer me before (or so I suspect). It did not go as well as they had hoped.
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby Robspierre » 25 Jun 2009 00:36

Not to mention the complete lack of an editor to catch all their fuck ups.

Rob

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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 25 Jun 2009 11:40

Robspierre wrote:Not to mention the complete lack of an editor to catch all their fuck ups.

Rob


Especially really simple things like when they contradict their OWN books by calling the machine ships lightspeed. :lol:

I'd actually love to go to Chapters to look at a paperback copy to see if that's been corrected since I shoved it at Byron last year. I would hope he's at least useful enough to point that kind of info towards the authors.
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby Freakzilla » 25 Jun 2009 11:45

You really think they care? :snooty:
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby SandChigger » 25 Jun 2009 12:33

Freakzilla wrote:You really think they care? :snooty:

Well, they did quietly slip in that change in the Hunters paperback, remember. (Duncan and Teg training, and Duncan suddenly mentions Teg's super abilities, like he'd never forgotten.) Claimed it had gotten left out accidently in the editing process, or something like that. :roll:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 25 Jun 2009 12:35

That's the kinda think I'm hoping for in Sandworms, it'd be sad to know that I in some way contributed to the text... but at least it would have been a contribution slightly to the better.
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby TheDukester » 25 Jun 2009 14:03

TheDukester wrote:Waiting ... waiting ...

Waiting ... waiting ...

It seems the Pesticle has time to respond to every other thread here except the ones that methodically blow gigantic holes in his hero's "writing."

No instructions yet from Keith, I guess.
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby SandChigger » 25 Jun 2009 14:21

A Thing of Eternity wrote:That's the kinda think I'm hoping for in Sandworms, it'd be sad to know that I in some way contributed to the text... but at least it would have been a contribution slightly to the better.

Yeah, but don't hold your breath waiting for him to credit or thank you.

Ain't built that way. :lol:


Waiting ... waiting ... :lol:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby Nekhrun » 25 Jun 2009 14:49

A Thing of Eternity wrote:That's the kinda think I'm hoping for in Sandworms, it'd be sad to know that I in some way contributed to the text... but at least it would have been a contribution slightly to the better.

Yeah, maybe you'll get a special acknowledgment from kja and his special buddies.
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby Tleszer » 25 Jun 2009 15:28

A special invitation to the KJASF? Neato!
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby TheDukester » 25 Jun 2009 15:32

And ...

He's gone again. :lol:

Once again, his drive-by spamming hits numerous threads except any of the three that specifically target TheKJA's "writing" and numerous mistakes.

Curious, no?
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby SandChigger » 25 Jun 2009 15:34

Kevin probably hasn't come up with any BS answers yet. ;)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby SadisticCynic » 25 Jun 2009 15:44

Despite having a degree in the subject? :think:
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby SandChigger » 25 Jun 2009 15:46

He obviously didn't use any of that supposed knowledge when he wrote the crap, so why should he try to make use of it now in weaseling? ;)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby SadisticCynic » 25 Jun 2009 15:48

I thought the consensus was he overused that particular degree. :wink:
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby SandChigger » 25 Jun 2009 15:50

Only in the mention. In name only. As in name-dropping. One of the things he is actually good at. :P
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby Freakzilla » 25 Jun 2009 15:51

I never graduated college, but I have found that things you learn in a classroom setting have no practical value unless you apply them in real world situations.

Then you often find that what you learned in school was just to get you started in the right direction.
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby SandChigger » 25 Jun 2009 16:07

KJA obviously decided that the real world physics he learned in the classroom had no relevance to Da Big Fictional Sandbox someone was stupid enough to let him shit in. :roll:


Edit: LUV the "ATTN" addition to the titles of these threads. :lol:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 25 Jun 2009 16:40

SandChigger wrote:KJA obviously decided that the real world physics he learned in the classroom had no relevance to Da Big Fictional Sandbox someone was stupid enough to let him shit in. :roll:


Edit: LUV the "ATTN" addition to the titles of these threads. :lol:


I thought maybe he'd missed them :o ... seemed necessary.
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Re: Further Weak Writing Examples

Postby TheDukester » 25 Jun 2009 18:32

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I thought maybe he'd missed them :o ... seemed necessary.

Oh, the Pesticle is studiously avoiding all of these threads. He's glanced at them, seen the gigantic mistakes his hero has made — carefully spelled out, point by point — and has decided to punt. It's far easier to try to confuse everyone with his gobbledy-gook on about 30 other threads.
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